“Oh How Great is the Nothingness of Man”
I realize that many people will never allow themselves to believe that William Law was a good, noble and inspired counselor to Joseph Smith who was simply trying to get him and the church to repent and return to the foundational principles and ordinances.
One of the reasons why people reject William Law is because after he was rejected by the apostate church and had to flee from Nauvoo for his own safety, the Lord began to cover his eyes as prophesied in Isaiah and as required by the atonement statute. Hence, he began to doubt and eventually he rejected the validity of the original restoration. Naturally, he lost even more credibility with all branches of the restoration movement when he did that.
God made fools out of all of the Leaders and members of the Restored Church
By understanding the atonement statute, the scapegoat doctrine and the intercessory offering that the leaders of the LDS foundation movement offered in behalf of the apostate latter day saints we can realize that all of the early leaders of the church were playing roles in a prophetic scenario that required them to have their eyes covered.
One of the truly amazing things about the LDS restoration movement in the 2nd watch is that God categorically made a fool out of everyone involved to demonstrate that the work of men can be frustrated if they are not being led by God. (Section 3:3)
The work of man always fails once the Lord withdraws His spirit.
When the angel Moroni declared to Joseph Smith that his name would be had for good and evil he was saying that the name of Joseph Smith would justifiably be known for good and evil because after doing much good under the direction of the spirit, he would then loose his awareness, temporarily fall from grace and do much evil as God used him to deliver the latter day saints over to Satan for a little season.
“…by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God…”
(Deut 8:3, Matt 4:4, Mor 7:25, D&C 84:44, 98:11)
As we have shown in previous posts, scripture warns us time and again to discern every message regardless of who the messenger is.. We are to put our trust in the word of the Lord not in his mortal messenger.
Mortal messengers can lose the spirit and fail us, God’s word does not fail us.
God never commands us to categorically put our trust in a human messenger after they have delivered an inspired message from God. We are to discern every message regardless of who delivers it.
Personal revelation is required to pass the test.
One of the great lessons of the failed attempt to establish Zion in the 2nd watch is that when the saints collectively rejected the fullness of the Gospel, God withdrew his spirit from every single leader and member of the church and they all temporarily fell from grace with the prophetic promise that the light would shine forth again after a little season. Thankfully, Joseph, William, Sidney and others are retained mercy despite falling from grace.
Every one of the early high profile leaders from Joseph Smith, to all of those who served as his counselors, to the three witnesses to the eight witnesses to the 23 High Priests called at the Morley Farm to the Twelve Apostles and on and on, all of them humiliated themselves after God withdrew his spirit from them.
We can go down the list and find no exceptions.
“Those who live in glass houses…”
Most latter day saints will be shocked to find out that they have inherited lies.
The Lord rejected the restored church with their dead back in Nauvoo after becoming a condemned church in Kirtland.
The apostate church has been delivered over to Satan. They have been seduced into a satanic covenant containing the same blood oath and other ear marks of the covenant that Satan and Cain entered into.
We latter day Saints have been shaking hands with the devil for the better part of 200 years. Isaiah spoke of this in shock and amazement. The Latter day saints are taking comfort in a false covenant thinking that it will protect them when the overflowing scourge passes through:
“ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves… your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report”
Obviously, the latter day church has a role to play. The Book of Mormon is true and taking it to the world is a good thing that is helping to prepare the world for the Marvelous Work.
Testifying of the “name of Christ” is another good thing.
Testifying “of Christ” and claiming to know that he lives when a person has never seen him is not a good thing.
We live during the little season of spiritual darkness, deception and delusion when God has turned his face from the latter day saints. The greater endowment of having the heavens parted, seeing the Father and the Son, being endowed with power and and receiving one’s calling and election is not available during this designated time when the fulness of the gospel is not available to the saints.
The Marvelous Work that is about to come forth is when the light of the fulness of the gospel will re-emerge to light up this earth.
Those who claim to be parting the heavens and getting their calling and election at this time when the fulness of the gospel has been rejected and is being withheld are ether deceivers or they have been deceived.
If it was actually possible for people to get their calling and elections made sure at this time, most of the prophecies about the light shining forth and about the servants returning and about God’s deliverance would be false and unnecessary.
Originally, in the early years of the restoration it was clearly understood that the testimony of Jesus, was an essential part of the calling of an apostle. This is why the 12 apostles who were called in 1835 were told that their callings as apostles would not be complete until they saw God.
When John the Revelator said the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, he was probably explaining that it takes the spiritual gift of prophecy to see God and Christ since they live in eternity which is comprised of what we perceive to be the past present and future at the same time.
The true definition of “testimony” is given in section 76:22-23
“…this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! For we saw him…”
As you can see, a person needs to actually see Christ and the Father in order to have a testimony that they live.
It is blasphemous for people who “believe” that God lives to testify that they have the “testimony” of Christ. Clearly, they don’t.
Joseph Smith told the early brethren who were anticipating the solemn assembly in the Kirtland Temple that those who were pure would see Christ. This is what the real “endowment” was, to have the heavens opened, receive power and see God.
“I feel disposed to speak a few words more to you, my brethren, concerning the endowment: All who are prepared, and are sufficiently pure to abide the presence of the Savior, will see him in the solemn assembly.” (DHC VII P. 308-310)
After years of having the awkward situation of members of the church asking modern general authorities if they have seen Christ, Joseph Fielding Smith took it upon him self to change the doctrine of testimony so that apostles were no longer required to have a direct visitation from Christ in order to say they had the apostolic testimony.
“Every member of the Council of the Twelve Apostles should have, and I feel sure have had, the knowledge of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This does not have to come by direct visitation of the Savior, but it does come from the testimony of the Holy Ghost. … The testimony of the Holy Ghost is the strongest testimony that can be given. It is better than a person visit” (emphasis is in the original – Doctrines of Salvation, 3:153)
It will one day be apparent who the true apostles and prophets are that have the true testimony of Jesus.
The Latter day Saints who do not repent when the servants return and warn them will not stand when the overflowing scourge passes through.
William Law and William Marks were considered “worse than dead”
Here is an entry from the 1840-1845 Journal of Heber C. Kimball:
“About 4 years ago next May [i.e., May 1842] nine persons were admitted into the Holy order 5 are now living–B. Young–W. Richards George Miller N. K. Whitney & H. C. Kimball two are dead [James Adams and Hyrum Smith], and two are worse than dead [the apostatized William Law and William Marks].” HC 5″
As you can see, some of the junior leaders of the church who were called to be apostles (but had not yet recieved the testimony of Jesus and should not have been allowed to preside over the church in established stakes of Zion), like Heber C. Kimball, Brigham Young, John Taylor and Williard Richards began labeling people like William Marks and William Law as “worse than dead” because they rejected the secret oaths that Joseph began to administer.
They were considered “evil” for questioning Joseph Smith and trying to reform the church back to the simple pattern provided in the New Testament.
These men began to realize that the bizarre rituals Joseph was initiating people into were contrary to the simple gospel of Jesus Christ that had previously been revealed. The true endowment of visitation and power was being replace with a Masonic ritual containing blood oaths and secret handshakes and swearing by the neck.
William Law in particular became quite outspoken prior to the martyrdom about these strange practices and also began declaring polygamous relations as adulterous. He was sticking with the original celestial law of monogamy clearly outlined in the law of the Gospel contained in section 42. (see also section 49)
Sidney Rigdon and William Marks agreed with William Law about the false doctrines and abominations taking place in the church but they did not become as publicly vocal about these issues as William Law until after the martyrdom.
In defense of Sidney Rigdom’s decision to remain relatively silent regarding Joseph’s secret spiritual wife practice and his false teachings regarding the nature of God, he had been given an unconditional commandment to “not forsake” Joseph in section 35 and he appears to have taken that commandment very seriously even though he knew that Joseph was engaging in questionable behavior. Shortly after the martyrdom several people spoke of Sidney’s prounouncement that the Church had not been led by the spirit for a long time. Here is one of the accounts:
““he[Sidney] had known for some years that Joseph had not been led by the spirit of God [and gave this] as the reason why he did not attend with him as his counselor” See journal of Joseph Fielding
Isaiah prophesied that the Saints would cast away the “Law”
(Pun intended?)
Isaiah saw all of these amazing things happening. He could see that everything would become distorted and turned upside down shortly after the restoration of the church because the saints would reject the law of the gospel in section 42 and would try to add additional temple rituals and counterfeit endowments on top of the true and complete saving ordinances outlined in section 20.
By setting aside the celestrial law of monogamy laid out in section 42 in preference to the spiritual wife doctrine now canonized as section 132, the saints were casting away the law of the Lord:
“because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.”
(Isa 5:24)
The good news in the ominous prophetic view that Isaiah provides in chapter 5 is that although the Lords “anger is not turned away”, “his hand is stretched out still”. (Isa 5:25)
Isaiah informs us that eventually the Lord will “lift up an ensign” and his word will “hiss unto them from the end of the earth” and “they shall come with speed swiftly”. (Isa 5:26-27)
The latter day saints have been temporarily forsaken
The Lord informed Moses that the latter day saints would break the covenant and go a whoring after other Gods. He foresaw that God would temporarily forsake the saints and hide his face from them
16 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods. Deut 31:16-17
Isaiah also prophesied of the same event that was revealed to Moses pertaining to the God of Israel forsaking his people for a time.
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
It is important to realize that the Marvelous Work is yet a work to come forth and it is important to begin realizing the truth about what really happened. The Lord compassionately delivered his people over to Satan.
We need to know the truth about the early leaders of the church because they will play integral roles in the Marvelous Work during the 3rd watch.
If we take the unconditional promises seriously which are contained in the revealed word of God, we will realize and anticipate that great and noble men like Joseph Smith Jr., William Marks, William Law, Frederick G. Williams, Sidney Rigdon and others who have all suffered from character assassination will return to fulfill their callings when the Marvelous Work begins.
This post is a tribute to William Law, one of the truly great men of the kingdom. I realize that virtually everyone on just about every side of Mormonism hates William Law but I am simply taking God at his word that William will repent and return and be filled with the spirit of God.
Viewing the Character and Prophetic Role of William Law through God’s Word
Here is what God has to say about William Law in the last major prophetic revelation that was given to the saints in Nauvoo:
“Let my servant William Law pay stock into that house, for himself and his seed after him, from generation to generation.” (124:82)
It was a great honor to be able to pay stock in the Nauvoo House. Not everyone was allowed to. William Law was a scriptural literalist that was counted worthy by the Lord to help fund the Nauvoo House because he believed the word of God as contained in the standard works as they stood in 1841..
One of the qualifications for being able to pay stock was to be grounded in the faith and in the scriptures. Anyone who taught or professed any doctrines, commandments or saving ordinances that constituted more or less than what was currently canonized in the Book of Mormon and that Doctrine and Covenants at the time section 124 was given, was considered impure and not worthy of pay for stock in the Nauvoo House:
. 119 And again, verily I say unto you, let no man pay stock to the quorum of the Nauvoo House unless he shall be a believer in the Book of Mormon, and the revelations I have given unto you, saith the Lord your God;
120 For that which is more or less than this cometh of evil, and shall be attended with cursings and not blessings, saith the Lord your God. Even so. Amen.
In addition to the great honor of being able to pay for stock in the Nauvoo House, William Law was to be given the same keys as Hyrum, by which he might obtain blessings of knowledge.
97 Let my servant William Law also receive the keys by which he may ask and receive blessings; let him be humble before me, and be without guile, and he shall receive of my Spirit, even the Comforter, which shall manifest unto him the truth of all things, and shall give him, in the very hour, what he shall say.
From the above prophecy it is clear that William was foreordained to have the “truth of all things” manifest to him by the comforter. William was to be given utterance in the “very hour” of what he was to say.
As we shall see as this story about William Law continues to unfold that he was foreordained to expose the secret practices and false doctrines that were being introduced into the church in Nauvoo. He was the one that invited the Saints to REFORM. ( as prophesied in the Book of Commandments)
This next passage from section 124 provides a great key verifying that William Law was to return in the 3rd watch with the fullness of the Melchizedek priesthood notice.
98 And these signs shall follow him—he shall heal the sick, he shall cast out devils, and shall be delivered from those who would administer unto him deadly poison;
99 And he shall be led in paths where the poisonous serpent cannot lay hold upon his heel, and he shall mount up in the imagination of his thoughts as upon eagles’ wings.
100 And what if I will that he should raise the dead, let him not withhold his voice.
101 Therefore, let my servant William cry aloud and spare not, with joy and rejoicing, and with hosannas to him that sitteth upon the throne forever and ever, saith the Lord your God.
102 Behold, I say unto you, I have a mission in store for my servant William, and my servant Hyrum, and for them alone; and let my servant Joseph tarry at home, for he is needed. The remainder I will show unto you hereafter. Even so. Amen.
If you do a keyword search on “heal sick” and “cast out devils” and miracles and “poison” you will be taken to a handful of prophetic passages that describe how the Lords servants will return to gather the elect with full power in their priesthood.
William Law is going to return at the time of controversy and he will be doing miracles.
He will heal the sick, cast out devils and remain unharmed with people attempt to poison him.
Amen.
He will even raise the dead!
Amen.
Many latter day saints will probably say he is an imposter or possessed and filled with a demon and they will close their eyes and their ears at what is happening as people like him and Sidney, and William and Lyman and Joseph and many others return.
Another passage in section 124 commands the saints to hearken to the counsel of William along with Joseph and Hyrum;
“And hearken unto the counsel of my servants Joseph, and Hyrum, and William Law, and unto the authorities which I have called to lay the foundation of Zion; and it shall be well with him forever and ever. Even so. Amen” (124:118)
Section 124 also calls William Law along with Sidney Rigdon to be counselors to Joseph Smith.
126 I give unto him for counselors my servant Sidney Rigdon and my servant William Law, that these may constitute a quorum and First Presidency, to receive the oracles for the whole church.
127 I give unto you my servant Brigham Young to be a president over the Twelve traveling council;
It is important to remember that Joseph Smith did not call William Law and Sidney Rigdon to be his counselors…
God did.
And God never called Brigham to preside over the church or to preside in Zion.
Brigham was called to be one of the 12 apostles which is a life long calling as a traveling missionary council.
William Law’s appointment, by revelation, as a councilor in the First Presidency is something that William Law pointed out in the expositor.
We are going to take a close look at William and view him through the eyes of God in the next installment
Keep watching
Because I am Watching 
I’ve been trying to understand what you don’t like about the endowment. The ELEMENTS in the endowment are found all over scripture. The Book of Mormon shows that Saints entered into covenants with penalties. They are also found in the Old Testament.
Alma 46:
20 Behold, whosoever will maintain this title upon the land, let them come forth in the strength of the Lord, and ENTER INTO A COVENANT that they will maintain their rights, and their religion, that the Lord God may bless them.
21 And it came to pass that when Moroni had proclaimed these words, behold, the people came running atogether with their armor girded about their loins, RENDING THEIR GARMENTS in TOKEN, or as a covenant, that they would not forsake the Lord their God; or, in other words, if they should transgress the commandments of God, or fall into transgression, and be ashamed to take upon them the name of Christ, the LORD SHOULD RENT THEM even as they had rent their garments. (Same elements as the temple, no?)
22 Now this was the covenant which they made, and they cast their garments at the feet of Moroni, saying: We covenant with our God, that WE SHALL BE DESTROYED, even as our brethren in the land northward, if we shall fall into transgression; yea, he may cast us at the feet of our enemies, even as we have cast our garments at thy feet to be TRODDEN UNDER FOOT, if we shall fall into transgression.
Was this practice by the Nephites wrong? Why would Mormon include it? Or how is it so different than the endowment?
Rob
I have nothing against God’s people entering into appropriate covenants.
The example you give from the book of Alma is an appropriate covenant but it does not justify the creation of a false masonic temple covenant that is patterned after the covenant that Cain made with Satan. In fact, it testifies against the original temple endowment that Brigham Young devised.
The example you give is a covenant to maintain their God given rights in taking upon them the name of Christ. It was a covenant to not forsake the Lord and not transgress the commandments and to fight against a secret combination that was trying to take away their freedom.
The covenant in the example you give is not claiming to be an ordinance of salvation which is necessary for the highest kingdom.
Conversely, Brigham’s covenant contained the “oath of vengeance” which was a blood oath to seek revenge on those that participated in the death of Joseph Smith. God does not justify revenge. “vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord”
Brigham’s covenant with hell brought forth the fruits of hell.
It was the inspiration behind the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
It was the inspiration behind all of the LDS fundamentalist assassinations for power and gain where the slitting of throats from ear to ear was performed… per the covenant with death.
It was the inspiration behind the building of a 5 billion dollar infrastructure around a shopping mall that neglects the poor.
It is the foundational basis of all of the false teachers who claim they have seen Christ had their calling and election made sure during this time of darkness when the saints and the world have been temporarily forsaken and rejected.
Brigham’s covenant with hell was not protecting the saints from secret combinations, rather it was enticing them to enter into a secret combination which was prophesied in the Book of Mormon.
Brigham’s covenant with hell was created to intimidate and oppress people into giving up their individual ability to receive personal revelation and enjoy their freedom.
Brigham’s covenant with hell was created to gain power and money through intimidation and priest craft.
Every single Mormon who has been “endowed” has unwittingly and unintentionally made a covenant with hell.
If that covenant is not broken at or before the return of the servants the second death awaits the foolish recipient.
The purpose of the true endowment is to break the spiritual bondage that all people are in right now. Notice how the true fulness of priesthood endowment that was offered at the Morley FArm and will be offered again in the near future will break all bonds
1 BEHOLD, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants, it is expedient in me that the elders of my church should be called together, from the east and from the west, and from the north and from the south, by letter or some other way.
2 And it shall come to pass, that inasmuch as they are faithful, and exercise faith in me, I will pour out my Spirit upon them in the day that they assemble themselves together.
3 And it shall come to pass that they shall go forth into the regions round about, and preach repentance unto the people.
4 And many shall be converted, insomuch that ye shall obtain power to organize yourselves according to the laws of man;
5 That your enemies may not have power over you; that you may be preserved in all things; that you may be enabled to keep my laws; that every bond may be broken wherewith the enemy seeketh to destroy my people.
6 Behold, I say unto you, that ye must visit the poor and the needy and administer to their relief, that they may be kept until all things may be done according to my law which ye have received. Amen.
Rob, when you swore by your neck in the temple endowment (before they changed it) you were violating the commandment of God in both the New Testament and the Book of Mormon which commanded you to never swear by your head
33 ¶ Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head (Matt 5 3rd Nephi 12:33-36)
Rob when you chose to discard the singular ordinances of salvation provided in the Bible, Book of Mormon and D&C that God had endorsed by revelation shortly before the martyrdom, and chose to accept an alternative gospel covenant created by a carnal man, you brought a curse upon yourself. The curse that you brought upon yourself is mentioned in the OT and BofM.
31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.
32 Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to day, they will deny me; nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them, saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.
The covenant with hell that Brigham introduced was not inspired by the Holy Ghost. In fact it contradicts Gods holy word.
I don’t know why you keep reading the blog that challenges the core of your apostate religion Rob. I can only assume that the spirit has been working on you and that God wants to break the yoke of spiritual bondage that you have entered into.
I am going to offer up a prayer in your behalf that the veil of darkness will be lifted from off of your head and that you will be able to reject the gospel of Brigham Young and accept the pure gospel of Jesus Christ… please join me in prayer that you will be released from the spiritual spell that has been put upon you.
Your brother in Christ
Watcher
I agree with you that the oath of vengeance was not inspired. I didn’t know that you were specifically referring to that part of the (original) endowment. I thought your criticisms were of the present oaths / covenants.
I’m not going to spend any time at all defending Brigham Young. I’m sorry you spent so much time addressing him. I already have my view of him.
“I don’t know why you keep reading the blog that challenges the core of your apostate religion Rob.”
I’m not afraid of reading anything. I am only seeking truth. Sometimes that requires finding things that are unpleasant. But I’ve learned to shift paradigms enough it is rarely painful anymore.
I appreciate your blog. I believe I have learned a lot. Though I will seek to confirm much of what I have read here.
Rob
I appreciate your comments.
However, I don’t think you can separate the content of the original covenant with hell from the current covenant with hell.
If the original “endowment” was a covenant with hell, with a blood oath that required recipients to murder the assassins of Joseph Smith, then that is the spirit in which the current covenant is constituted.
Imagine God the Father commanding the 12 apostles to go murder everyone involved in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
The point is this, Satan is the original author of the Mormon Masonic Temple covenant with hell. When Isaiah spoke of the covenant with hell he was not separating the 1840’s version of it with the 2012 version of it.
The 2012 version of the covenant with hell is powerful enough to result in leaders of the LDS Church swapping masonic handshakes with governmental officials involved in the secret combination that is currently making it’s prophesied grab for world dominance.
When the Book of Mormon speaks of the “evil gift” which is a counterfeit of the true “gifts of the spirit”, and the true gift or endowment that results in parting the heavens and receiving power, it does not distinguish between the original version and the modern version that is leading the church to destruction as we speak.
I don’t believe that the brethren can simply remove some of the most blatantly offensive aspects of it and mystically have God’s endorsement and have it become some wonderful celestial ordinance that is required for the highest salvation.
If you want to see some of the fruits of the modern endowment read this http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no80.htm
There is no need for any ordinance of salvation outside of what is listed in section 20.
The modern LDS temple endowment is just as much a covenant with hell as the one it originated from, no matter how much the brethren massage it.
We must rely solely on the merits of Him who is mighty to save, exercising faith in the atonement and experiencing the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
Those who put their faith in the foolish temple ritual and secret signs tokens and handshakes cut themselves off from the full offering of the cross.
“Those who put their faith in the foolish temple ritual and secret signs tokens and handshakes cut themselves off from the full offering of the cross.”
I don’t disagree, but you could put, “Those who put their faith in __________” cut themselves off…. Anything other than Christ in that blank is true.
To the extent that the temple can focus people to be obedient to the Lord, sacrifice, live the gospel, etc. it is a useful tool to help bring people to Christ. The ordinances point to Christ, but they are not Him. People who believe they actually have an endowment from God or are actually sealed are mistaken. The temple ordinances are authoritative invitations to receive the real thing. But they are not the real thing.
It is the same with the ancient Israelites. They believed the Law of Moses would save them. But it was only to help point people to Christ. Those who will take advantage of the ordinances, which point to Christ, and go seek Him, and have faith in Him, will be saved. But those who think they are saved simply because they have “authoritative” ordinances, will be sadly mistaken.
There’s too much of the temple in the Book of Mormon for me to dismiss the temple outright. There are covenants of obedience, penalties, the Gospel, the order of prayer, endowments of power, calling and election, and much more. The temple can be used to bring one to Christ.
There are too many people who have used what is taught in the temple who have conversed with the Lord through the veil for me to believe it is a “covenant with hell.”
Again, I appreciate your comments Rob.
You are a persistent little rascal.
I love having alternate opinions expressed on this blog if they can be substantiated by scripture.
I think I understand where you are coming from. You apparently feel that although Brigham Young put some uninspired things in the original temple covenant, he also mingled some good things in there as well, and as long as people use it to focus on Christ, it can be a positive thing to strengthen faith in Christ.
Is that correct?
While I respect your agency to believe anything you want to believe, I simply want to point out, since this is my blog and my forum, that I disagree with your premise and I believe the scriptures also disagree with it. I don’t think the oath of vengeance was uninspired, I believe it is clearly inspired directly from the devil according to prophecy.
I believe I have provided a wealth of documentation showing from ancient and modern scripture and prophecy that the latter day saints rejected the fulness of the gospel and that the Lord delivered them over to Satan of a season.
Joseph Smith played an important role in delivering up the saints to their delusion.
He did an important job in setting up Brigham Young to “steady the ark” of God and send the scapegoat servant into the wilderness and lead the saints into hidden darkness with a different covenant than the gospel requires.
You claim that there is too much “temple” in the Book of Mormon and other scripture but that is not the issue being debated.
I have never doubted that temples have been used to worship God in both ancient and modern times.
What I am challenging are the specific elements contained in the Brigham Young endowment.
Why is it that the scriptures clearly outline various elements of Satan’s oaths in his secret combinations and then warn us not to do them, yet there is nowhere in the scriptures that indicates that Gods true covenants contain any of those evil elements.
Here are the elements of temple worship that are not supported in true temple worship in the true word of God.
1. Swearing by the Neck
2. Blood oaths to seek vengeance and ways of taking life
3. Secret Signs and tokens
4. Secret Handshakes
5. Robes with green aprons and silly caps, etc.
I welcome your continued replies if you can provide some substance rather than vague claims.
It is strange how you agree that the oath of vengeance was not a good thing and you apparently see some issues with Brigham Young that you don’t want to discuss but you are going to hang on to the current, modified covenant with hell despite having acknowledged that the originating source is very questionable.
How can you rationalize these things in your mind.
Is it because you have put so much time and energy into the modern church and associated cult practices that you cannot bare the thought of having been duped?
I don’t want to be rude and ignorant, I am sincerely trying to understand what is going on inside your mind.
If you sincerely want to cling on to the integrity of the current temple ordinance then you really need to stick up for Brig and claim that he was totally inspired when he introduced it and that God has inspired the brethren to make the changes they have since made.
Although that would be a faulty argument, it would at least have elements of consistency and rational, logical thinking associated with it (if one backs out what the scriptures say about the true gospel.)
But your argument is completely illogical and irrational. It is 100% emotional and prideful. It appears that you just want to justify yourself and the false traditions of your fathers.
As soon as you concede that the oath of vengeance was not inspired and that Brigham Young is a professed president of the church that you can’t even defend, you put yourself on a slippery slope that cannot end well if you continue to hang on to the false covenant.
Are you the same Rob that used to comment on this blog a year or two ago or are you new to this blog?
How can you simply ignore all of the scriptural and historical information that I have flooded you with and continue making such a hollow argument?
Have you read these posts?
Do you really think the apostles and disciples at the time of Christ and in the Book of Mormon were putting on robes and aprons and swapping secret handshakes and swearing by their necks, etc.
If not, then do you really think that God would take a false covenant that was either uninspired or inspired by the devil and clean it up and make a new required ordinance of salvation out of it after having provided a simple and complete protocol for the spiritual birth?
Are you really being serious or are you just having a little fun with me?
Are you another shill?
Do you really think there are people who truly have seen the true God of Israel via the BY temple endowment? Are you interested in purchasing a bridge?
In honor of you I think I may take a short break from the William Law series and do a tribute to brother Brig and his temple endowment.
Thanks for your last response even if you did it for a good laugh..
Watcher
“I think I understand where you are coming from. You apparently feel that although Brigham Young put some uninspired things in the original temple covenant, he also mingled some good things in there as well, and as long as people use it to focus on Christ, it can be a positive thing to strengthen faith in Christ.
Is that correct?”
Not really. (At the present, there are a lot of things still “on the shelf,” while I have learned a lot in the last couple years through more diligent study, I still have much more to ponder and more answers to be received from God.) But, my present view is this:
I believe the Saints rejected the fullness of the gospel. I think that Joseph was inspired in putting together an endowment ceremony that would pass truths along in a symbolic form. These truths would help some people receive the greatest blessings of the restoration, converse with the Lord through the veil, and enter into the Holy Order of God.
Brigham was in charge of “finishing” what Joseph initially put together. At the present, i tend to believe that Joseph was inspired to do so.
I have not considered before whether Joseph was a fallen prophet. It’s on my to-do list now, but I do have more pressing questions. But I’m not afraid of asking that one.
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“How can you rationalize these things in your mind.
Is it because you have put so much time and energy into the modern church and the cult practices that you cannot bare the thought of having been duped?”
I do not rely on the church for my salvation. While I am still an active member, I am trying to refocus more of my energy serving elsewhere and paying to causes other than building malls. I do not worship a man, nor care for large birthday celebrations for them either. I will follow only the Spirit of the Lord.
I guess, I just can’t dismiss all the spiritual truths and revelation that the temple has brought me. I can’t deny that truth.
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“If you sincerely want to cling on to the integrity of the current temple ordinance then you really need to stick up for Brig and claim that he was totally inspired when he introduced it and that God has inspired the brethren to make the changes they have since made.”
I don’t think that I do. I don’t think the current temple ceremonies are precisely what the Lord would have us doing if we were all following Him like we should be. We have what we deserve to have. Those that deserve more, and are ready to receive more, will. But I think what we do have is largely helpful in receiving more.
I’m curious. Have you received any true messengers or have conversed with the Lord through the veil? I have not. But I do know a number who have. And all of them find the temple valuable, even though they recognize it’s not entirely complete.
“As soon as you concede that the oath of vengeance was not inspired and that Brigham Young is a professed president of the church that you can’t even defend, you put yourself on a slippery slope that cannot end well if you continue to hang on to the false covenant.”
I am glad you called Brigham the president and not a prophet. As President, he is a man, fallible and all. And I am sure you are aware of many of his faults. But he was just a man and not a prophet. He never claimed to be a prophet. I don’t see why it would be irrational to say that He did things the Lord would not have done. Polygamy, Blacks and the Priesthood, Blood Atonement, etc. These were his errors.
The LDS church has been led my men for some time, many who have made errors.
I don’t think this leads to the inevitable conclusion that one should not support or attend the LDS. Right now, it is the greatest organization that teaches truths of the restoration. I believe the Lord will pick up His work again. And I think He will pick up with it with the LDS church.
The Israelites were an apostate people. Yet, He picked up His work with them, even in their apostate state. They WERE HIS people.
While Nephi and Moroni condemn the latter-day church, what is also clear is that it is still HIS church. When Moroni says, “why have ye polluted the holy church of God?” Morm 8:38, implicit in that is that it is OF GOD. Though polluted, it’s still HIS church.
It’s a lot of work weeding through the false traditions the church has been handing down. I just don’t think the entirety of the endowment is one of them.
To me it would make more sense to require us to shift through truth from error, accepting some truths, rejecting others, than the easy task of writing it all off. But I could be wrong. Right now I am humbled in learning how much I have been taught is wrong. A month from now, my whole opinion on this topic could change. But I will not accept answers from man any more. True messengers, the Spirit, or Jesus, that all I will accept.
I read your blog, because I believe there is truth here. I don’t feel the Spirit tells me all of it is true. But enough to make it worthwhile. And perhaps, it will tell me more if I am just not ready to receive it yet. We’ll see.
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I found this blog about 4-5 months ago. I don’t recall posting before.
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“Have you read these posts?”
No, not yet.
If I could make a suggestion. Your blog could be better organized. I’ve struggled finding blogs that I have read in the past. It would be great if there were a table of contents, or one page that lists all the blogs without having to scroll down forever.
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“Do you really think the apostles and disciples at the time of Christ and in the Book of Mormon were putting on robes and aprons and swapping secret handshakes and swearing by their necks, etc.”
I think they were praying under the true order of prayer.
3 Nephi 17: 17 “And no tongue can speak, neither can there be written by any man, neither can the hearts of men conceive so great and marvelous things as we both SAW and heard Jesus speak; and no one can conceive of the joy which filled our souls at the time we heard him pray for us unto the Father.”
I believe not being able to speak about the way they “SAW” the Savior pray is a clear illusion to the true order of prayer.
I don’t really have time to go into the Old Testament and how that apparel is like temple worship.
Regardless, I also doubt the Nephites’ music was as dreary and boring as ours. But I do believe they sang praises.
The specifics of worship can differ, but the elements are the same. I see the elements of temple worship all over the scriptures. I realize that is more vague than you requested, I’ve already spent too much time replying. Perhaps sometime, I’ll put together a list of all of the scriptures that show the important elements of temple worship.
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“If not, then do you really think that God would take a false covenant that was either uninspired or inspired by the devil and clean it up and make a new required ordinance of salvation out of it after having provided a simple and complete protocol for the spiritual birth?”
Again, I don’t believe when people go to the temple and “receive their endowments” or are “sealed” that they are actually sealed or have received any great endowment. I believe the temple ordinances are authoritative invitations to receive these blessings at a future time. Only when the Holy Spirit of Promise has ratified the covenant, is when one is actually sealed. D&C 132:7 (I’m not sure if you thought section 132 was a false revelation or not. I believe it was a true revelation, but improperly interpreted by Brigham.)
If they will honor those covenants, seek true messengers, and seek to converse with the Lord through the veil, then they will receive an endowment like Jacob did, and like the Brother of Jared did.
Did Jacob or TBJ engage in such ceremony years before they received those blessings? Not sure. But I do believe they made covenants and kept them and then were blessed.
Our ceremony helps us to do the same. Though in all honesty, I don’t think we are taking advantage of what has been given us.
Most people think that JUST BECAUSE we have these ordinances that we are special and will be saved. They are missing the point. And their pride was foreseen in the Book of Mormon.
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“Are you really being serious or are you just having a little fun with me?”
I do value my time enough to not be joking around. If I wanted to waste my time, I’d get on a blog discussing fantasy football this fall.
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“Do you really think there are people who truly have seen the true God of Israel via the BY temple endowment?”
Yes, and no.
Do I believe that in order to see God one must covenant obedience, sacrifice, etc and keep that covenant, then if one knocks, the Lord will open and show Himself to you, then yes.
Do I believe that there is a line of angels asking for handshakes? That may be the case, but I doubt it.
I think there are angels out seeing if we are being faithful to the covenants we made. (Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.) Then they return and report. Might the beggar on the street be a true messenger seeing if Adam is being faithful to the token given him? Perhaps he’s not going to ask for a handshake, but if Adam offers help, love, and aid then has he not shown the messenger that he does keep his tokens sacred?
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“Are you interested in purchasing a bridge?” I’m getting tired and don’t know what you are trying to say.
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“Thanks for your last response even if you did it for a good laugh..”
I hope that this response shows that my interest is genuine. I’m sure I have holes in my knowledge. I am attempting to fill them.
I have enjoyed your discourse. But you have not persuaded me that the endowment as presently constituted doesn’t have something good in it.
Moroni 7:13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
See also Moroni 7:10, Moroni 10:6
LOL… I falsely assumed that you were another fellow that used to frequent this blog. He had strong leanings toward LDS fundamentalism and we had lots of discussions…
Anyway, I loved your answers.
If the temple works for you that is great.
Watcher
“I’m curious. Have you received any true messengers or have conversed with the Lord through the veil? I have not. But I do know a number who have. And all of them find the temple valuable, even though they recognize it’s not entirely complete.”
I have made it clear in many of my posts why I don’t believe anyone is piercing the veil of unbelief during the little season that was anounced by God in section prior to the prophesied deliverance when the light will shine forth again. You don’t know a number of people who have, you know a number of people who claim they have. Since virtually everything those people teach about the gospel and oabut the nature and character of God is wrong, it is doubtful they have met him. If people were piercing the veil right now then many of the passages in scripture would be false.
“I don’t think this leads to the inevitable conclusion that one should not support or attend the LDS. Right now, it is the greatest organization that teaches truths of the restoration.”
I have never encouraged anyone to leave the apostate church or to quit attending the apostate temple. That is not the purpose of my blogs. It is not my concern what people choose to do with the truth. If the “spirit is telling you to attend them, obviously you should attend them.
“I believe the Lord will pick up His work again. And I think He will pick up with it with the LDS church.”
I agree with you. I think that is what section 45:28 is telling us. Of course, the 64 dollar question is, how will the modern church respond when they are invited to repent and gather to the feast? check out verse 29 for further information on that topic. The Savior gave a parable about an invitation to a feast that also reveals how the saints will respond.
Section 112:25 also confirms that it will begin at God’s house. Verse 23 details what state the saints will be in when the news of the marvelous work reaches God’s house. Verse 26 addresses all of your friends who are claiming to see God in conjunction with their wonderful experiences in God’s house.
“If I could make a suggestion. Your blog could be better organized. I’ve struggled finding blogs that I have read in the past. It would be great if there were a table of contents, or one page that lists all the blogs without having to scroll down forever.”
Yes, others have made those observations and suggestions… I agree. I am working on creating some kind of listing with links
“I have made it clear in many of my posts why I don’t believe anyone is piercing the veil of unbelief during the little season that was anounced by God in section prior to the prophesied deliverance when the light will shine forth again.”
1 Nephi 14:1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
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“If people were piercing the veil right now then many of the passages in scripture would be false.”
When your eyes become open to a new paradigm to understand the difference between spirit and the material world, you will see that such visitations do not show the scriptures are false. You simply need a new paradigm. It does exist.
1 Nephi 14:1 is referring to the marvelous work in the 3rd watch which is about to take place. That is what differentiates the 2nd watch from the 3rd watch. The 2nd watch was largely a work done with the “word”. Conversely, the marvelous work will bring forth the greater portion of the “word” but will also be accompanied with “power”.
Rob I have really enjoyed our little chat. Frankly, I had assumed that you were more familiar with the contents of my two blogs than you are. This is because I thought you were a different Rob that has reviewed most of these posts.
I encourage people to first read the three watches blog through chronologically. Following that, you should do the same with this blog if you still find it valuable.
You are off to a good start however it is difficult trying to speak with you since you really don’t have a foundation for understanding what I am saying. I don’t have time to reiterate everything I have already posted at this time.
I invite you to keep reading more of my posts if the spirit entices you to do so.
Otherwise, if you are seeking greater confirmation about the truthfulness of the current endowment, may I refer you to this site. http://www.templestudy.com it will provide lots of inspiring stuff to maintain your testimony of the temple and those who are claiming that they have seen God and that all is well in Zion
I have read all about the 3 watches.
However, just because I have read them doesn’t mean I agree with them. There is much that I agree with about the three watches and the scapegoat doctrine as applied to Joseph and Sidney. Because of your writings, I’ve given Sidney a second chance.
I disagree with your interpretation of 1 Nephi 14:1. I believe it says clearly that if a Gentile repents in the latter-days, the Lord will manifest Himself to him in word, power and DEED and the Lord will remove any stumbling blocks.
Those words read pretty clear.
The Lord “in that day” or in the Latter-days will visit those who repent. There is nothing limiting in chapter 13 to the time you describe as the marvelous work. If you want to limit verse 1 to your understanding, that is the cause of your own unbelief. I don’t read any limitation, therefore I believe the Lord will visit those Gentiles who repent. He will do this before He makes Himself manifest to all nations. 1 N 13:42 (the verse preceeding 14:1).
When vs 1 is read in context, with all of Nephi’s vision, there is nothing limiting “in that day” of vs 14 to the time of the marvelous work.
I would be interested to see where you read a limitation there to one section of the latter-days.
I’m also curious how you see the Book of Mormon. The entire Book is an instruction manual for how to return to the Lord. The whole process is laid out. Numbers of people in the BOM have seen Christ, have had their callings and election made sure, and illustrate their path back to God.
This is principally why the temple endowment is so important. We were all in the presence of the God. We’ve all eaten of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Now we are the lone and dreary world. The temple and the Book of Mormon show us the way back. And like the Brother of Jared, we can converse with the Lord through the veil and overcome the fall.
Moroni also reiterates this: Ether 4:7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.
Now you can say “in that day” doesn’t in fact mean the latter-days when the BOM is among the gentiles, but some future time you call the marvelous work, but you have to write in limitations and distort the meaning of words to do so. God is no respecter of persons, and if you humble yourself and repent, His promises are available for everyone.
Section 93 is also clear that “EVERY soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and gknow that I am.” Now you can say that that is just talking about some future day of judgement when all will be brought before the Lord, but then why even say those who forsake their sins, etc, will be brought before the Lord. At some day, EVERY knee will bow and will be brought before the Lord. So that interpretation would render this section meaningless.
I don’t disagree with you that there is a future time where a marvelous work will come forth. I do think that is in the future. But I do not see AT ALL where these verses refer to that time or are limited as you suggest.
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Again, I HAVE read a lot of this blog. I hope you are not saying that you only welcome comments from those who agree with your understanding. If that is the case, just communicate that.
Just what the doctor ordered.
I was reading Isaiah 28 a few days ago and came upon verses 15, 18-19 and knew that there was a deeper meaning locked away in those verses but couldn’t get to it.
Thank you watcher for pointing it out to me.
Now I can clearly see that it was the same type of latter day events that happened anciently with Cain and Satan in Moses 5:29 that Isaiah referring to.