The Savior in Kirtland (Part Two)

The Savior in Kirtland
By Karl Anderson

Book Review and Critique by OWIW
OneWhoIsWatching [at] gmail.com
Part Two

In part one of this series, I discussed my first three observations about Karl Anderson’s book, The Savior in Kirtland. These three observations had to do with how the heavens were opened but eventually closed during the Kirtland era of the LDS restoration movement. This resulted in at least 22 people documented as seeing visions or visitations of the Savior in the Kirtland era, however, no credible documented visitation or visions ever happend after the Kirtland Temple was defiled. The Savior never appeared to anyone during the Nauvoo era of the LDS restoration era.

I also discussed how the scourge that was prophesied to take place in Kirtland is yet a future event, not one that has come and gone as is sometimes taught by people such as Karl Anderson.

Lastly, I discussed a remarkable quote by Karl Anderson about Sidney Rigdon wherein Anderson said:

Sidney’s phenomenal work for the Savior is recorded in many journals of those who joined the Church when it came to Kirtland, thus showing a successful fulfillment of his divine work” (pg 18)

Karl also concludes that “Sidney was one of the great leaders of hte Church, without whom the Church could not have been firmly established”

Now, we will cover my next 4-7 observations.

4- The Man of Sin was revealed in Fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians

In his new book, Karl continues to downplay the significance of the restoration of the Melchizedek priesthood at the special conference at the Morley Farm just like he did no his first book. He seems to agree with Brigham Young and the modern church that it only had to do with an “ordination” or “calling” to an “office” within the existing priesthood that Peter James and John had restored a few years earlier.

He rejects the characterization that Joseph, Lyman and others gave of the event; that the “Melchizedek priesthood” was literally being restored for the first time and not just the office of High Priest within the existing priesthood restored by Peter James and John as Brigham had speculated.

Karl’s stance on this comes as no surprise since it is the current theology taught by the LDS Church.

The other major event that took place at the special conference was the fulfilling of the prophecy in 2 Thes about the revealing of the Son of Perdition.

Regarding a short blurb about the special conference at the Morley Farm, Karl provides this amazing quote on page 76

During the meeting the power of the darkness were made manifest in a remarkable degree… Joseph.. Rebuked the spirit.. from the house upon which the spirit left.. and went outside, among the crowd of men standing near the door and made a swath among them several feet wide, throwing them violently to the ground. Joseph said this was the fulfillment of the scriptures where it says the man of sin should be revealed…”  pg76

This is really quite remarkable because it shows that the spiritual manifestation of Satan actually has physical power over physical bodies. This is consistent with the associated event of Satan literally throwing a 200 lb man across the room at the conference and other situations when people actually levitated because of evil powers.

The most significant thing about the above quote however is that it provides an exact time, place, event, and context for the literal fulfillment of the following prophecy.

“NOW we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

Notice that the above prophecy by the apostle Paul directly links that end times apostasy with the Latter day Saints if Joseph’s declaration is true.

It also links the use of a temple with the apostate people that have had old Scratch revealed to them.

I have written about the fulfillment of the “man of Sin” prophecy in other posts and will not belabor that topic here.

5- Historical Revisionism about the Nauvoo Temple

On page 80 Karl quotes Brigham Young as saying

“..We completed a temple in Kirtland and in Nauvoo and did not the bells of hell roll all the time wer were building them?”

The statement from Brigham took place many years after Nauvoo, after the saints fled to Utah. It contradicted many other statements Brigham Young had made about the fact that the Nauvoo temple never being completed.

Karl knows better than that. Brigham did too.

In Brigham’s own journal he documents that the Nauvoo Temple was far from finished when the Saints fled Nauvoo. There is a wealth of credible historical information documenting the fact that the Nauvoo Temple was never completed.

I am really disappointed that Karl would knowingly provide a historical quote containing disinformation that will continue to perpetuate the myth that the Nauvoo temple was finished by the saints in the 1840’s.

6- At least 22 church leaders saw Christ or heard his voice. 11 can be identified by name  (pg 129)

Karls points out that a minimum of 22 people saw or heard the voice of Christ during the Kirtland era and at least 11 of them can be identified by name.

This is one of the greatest and most profound observations that Karl shares in his book. His years of research have made this most notable observation possible and I think those of us that are truly interested in the Kirtland period of church history and the Saviors personal involvement in it, are indebted to him for taking the time to do this research.

He further breaks the stats down as follows: 8 of the 11 that can be identified saw Christ while three of them heard his voice.

Those that were documented as having seen Christ

  • Joseph smith
  • Sidney rigdon
  • Lyman Wight
  • Harvey Whitlock
  • John Murdock
  • Zebedee Coltrin
  • Oliver Cowdery
  • Martin Harris

Those that heard his voice but did not see him

  • David Whitmer
  • Newel K. Whitney
  • Warren Snow

There are 12 additional documented but unidentified eye witnesses of Christ according to Karl. I believe we can guestimate who most of these people are by a profound discovery that Karl shares in his book. We will discuss this later in this book review.

7- There Is a Difference Between a Visitation and a Vision!

In a footnote on page 129 Karl makes the following observation and warning:

Some people try to draw a distinction between a vision and an appearance of Deity. This is difficult and perhaps unwise.”

I strongly beg to differ.

I think it is perhaps unwise to not draw a distinction.

I think the scriptures do make a contextual distinction between a vision, which often times shows past and future events as well as current ones, for instructive and faith promoting purposes, as opposed to the literal opening of the heavens for a literal, real time, visitation and communication with deity.

Why is this distinction or lack thereof important to people like Karl and me?

Why does he warn against making this distinction?

Why am I so passionate about the fact that there is a HUGE distinction that needs to be understood?

For one thing, it has to do with salvation and a person’s relationship with deity.

Secondly, because it provides a very important context for what was taking place in pre-1835 Kirtland events vs. post-1835 Kirtland events.

You see; my contention has been that the spiritual gifts and visitations being experienced during the time frame from 1831 to 1834 had to do with the restored “Church of Christ “and, in some cases, the restored, administrative Melchizedek Priesthood which was referred to as the   “Church of God“,  and the associated promises contained in the Book of Commandments.

The Melchizedek Priesthood that had been restored to the earth in June of 1831. Once this distinction is made, the D&C reads quite differently from section 52 on.

In my opinion, most of the spiritual endowments having to do with post-1834 events largely had to do with the “Church of the Latter day Saints” that was under condemnation and the instructions provided in the Doctrine and Covenants.

For those who are not aware, the name of the restored “Church of Christ” was changed in early 1834 to the “Church of the Latter Day Saints”. More on that later.

Among the many reasons that I feel the spiritual manifestations were of a lessor degree after the end of 1834, than prior to the end of 1834, is because the church in Kirtland and Nauvoo failed to live consecration and achieve temporal equality. The Lord had warned the saints that if they were not equal, He would withhold the abundance of the manifestations of the spirit:

Nevertheless, in your temporal things you shall be equal, and this not grudgingly, otherwise the abundance of the manifestation of the spirit shall be withheld.” (D&C 70:14)

Clearly, the saints had discontinued attempting to live the law of consecration by the time the Kirtland Temple was ready to be dedicated and were therefore not equal temporally. According to the word of God, they were not worthy to enjoy the full abundance of the manifestations of the spirit from then on.

Having the Heavens Opened and Conversing with the Father and the Son

I believe the act of literally opening the heavens and penetrating the veil of unbelief to transcend temporal time and gaze into eternity and converse with the Father and the Son requires a person to be transfigured.

This spiritual endowment is a Melchizedek Priesthood endowment and it is clearly different and distinct from many of the lesser endowments.

The Book of Moses informs us that one must be transfigured to see God, otherwise their physical bodies would wither and die.

But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.”

Examples of this in Kirtland would be Joseph, Lyman and Harvey seeing the Father and the Son at the special conference when the Melchizedek priesthood was restored for the first time in 1831. During those visions, Joseph made a statement indicating that he had experienced a change in his body and would not even taste death if someone were to kill him. I believe he, Lyman and Harvey were all transfigured when they saw the Father and the Son. The above passage mandates that all three of them must have been transfigured.

Another example would be the experience that Joseph and Sidney had seeing and conversing with the Father and the Son which is now documented in section 76. Again, from the testimonies given of this experience, they were both quickened by the spirit and transfigured in order to behold the glory of God with their spiritual eyes without having their physical bodies destroyed.

Having a Visitation from Christ

I don’t think a personal, real time visitation and conversation with Christ (within the veil of mortality, without the presence of the glory of the Father) requires transfiguration, however, according the Joseph Smith, it does require a person who has become “pure”.

A perfect example of this is the appearance of Christ and three angels to Joseph and Oliver in the Kirtland Temple (section 110). I think the Melchizedek priesthood had been taken from the earth by the end of 1834 and that in 1836 Joseph and Oliver were functioning under the evangelical-patriarchal priesthood that Peter James and John had restored in 1829.

They did not penetrate the veil of unbelief to see the Father and the Son in eternity. Rather, Christ and three angels came into temporal time and into the temple behind the literal temple veil and conversed with Joseph and Oliver in this world, not in eternity.

Visions of the Past and Future that Provide Instruction

Carrying this scenario further, having a “vision” of Christ in a past historical setting, for example, seeing him on the Cross, or seeing him in a future, prophetic setting, for example seeing him riding on a white horse leading the armies of Israel in battle, in the future, etc., those types of visions are, in my opinion, lesser spiritual endowments than having either a- a literal, real time one on one conversation with Christ, or, b- gazing into eternity to see both Christ and the Father.

Speaking in Tongues

A forth division of spiritual endowment might be the visitation of angels and yet another one might be the speaking in tongues.

One might have the spirit fall upon them and begin speaking in tongues which would be a wonderful spiritual endowment, however, it probably is not in the category of having a vision of Christ and it definitely is not in the category of having a literal visitation and conversation with Christ, let alone, being transfigured to see Christ standing on the right hand of God.

Since the church has not enjoyed any of the above types of spiritual endowments for over one hundred years, it is easy to minimize any possible distinction between them and to also marginalize the importance of having them happen.

Christ categorically appears to ALL the pure in heart

I believe that one of the interesting things that Joseph taught, and that was documented but not emphasized in Karl’s book, is that the spiritual endowment of seeing Christ in the Kirtland Temple was not a random event.

Joseph promised the newly called quorum of 12 apostles that “ALL who are prepared and are sufficiently pure to abide the presence of the Saviour will see him in the solemn assembly. (Pg. 225)

all who are pure will see Christ… in solemn assembly”  (Pg. 242)

Similar statements to other saints are documented in the book (pages 129, 139, and 141.

I believe the scriptures and some of the passages documented in Karl ‘s book indicate that it is a the mandatory requirement to see God in the flesh in order to obtain the highest degree of glory. (I think many people who have died when the fulness of the gospel was not on the earth will be returned to the earth prior to the end of probation to have this endowment)

This is something that is greatly minimized in church commentaries and histories. One of the primary goals and commandments and ultimate fruits of the gospel is the seeking of the face of deity. This is not a random experience. It is not an optional possibility. It is ultimately required for salvation in the highest kingdom. It is incredibly important and it was a major underlying theme of temple theology, in fact, it was one of the main purposes of the temple is for seeing God and conversing with him. This is alluded to in section 124:

“And again, verily I say unto you, how shall your washings be acceptable unto me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name?
38  For, for this cause I commanded Moses that he should build a tabernacle, that they should bear it with them in the wilderness, and to build a house in the land of promise, that those ordinances might be revealed which had been hid from before the world was.
39  Therefore, verily I say unto you, that your anointings, and your washings, and your baptisms for the dead, and your solemn assemblies, and your memorials for your sacrifices by the sons of Levi, and for your oracles in your most holy places wherein you receive conversations, and your statutes and judgments, for the beginning of the revelations and foundation of Zion, and for the glory, honor, and endowment of all her municipals, are ordained by the ordinance of my holy house, which my people are always commanded to build unto my holy name.
40  And verily I say unto you, let this house be built unto my name, that I may reveal mine ordinances therein unto my people;

I believe everyone going to the temple in Kirtland understood that they were, in a sense, being tested for purity.

Those that saw Christ, past the purity test.

Those that did not, needed to continue seeking his face after the temple experience. Some responded in a positive way while others became discouraged or skeptical or angry, etc.

There was a huge and very explicit distinction between the elders who saw the face of deity and those who did not.

This was clearly understood among all of the leaders of the church. According to section 67, the jealousies between the early brethren that were ordained High priests was significant. The jealousies had to do, in part, with who had seen God and who had not.

The natural tendency was for those who hadn’t seen God to be skeptical and jealous of those who did, and perhaps some of those who did see God, to be judgmental of those who had not, was horrendous. This amazing pressure resulted in doubts and jealousies between the brethren.

It is interesting to note that there were some brethren at the Morley Farm that got past by and were not ordained and did not see the Father and the Son, and yet, they were motivated to exercise greater faith in the future and eventually did get ordained to be a High Priest and to see the father and the Son.

One example of this was Zebedee Coltin. His testimony of the Father and the Son while in the school of the prophets is one of the most instructive and proves that the Father can in fact come through the veil and appear in this sphere.

Here is what section 67 says about those who became jealous and the promise that one can see God:

And again, verily I say unto you that it is your privilege, and a promise I give unto you that have been ordained unto this ministry, that inasmuch as you strip yourselves from jealousies and fears, and humble yourselves before me, for ye are not sufficiently humble, the veil shall be rent and you shall see me and know that I am—not with the carnal neither natural mind, but with the spiritual.”

The above passage is linking the jealousies and fears with the hope of seeing God.

It ends with the reminder that one must be quickened by the spirit to see God:

For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.”

That provides a second witness to the passage in Moses that one must receive a temporary change in order to see God without being destroyed.

Another distinction that Karl appears to have not noticed or to intentionally obscure, was that only those being called to be High Priests in Kirtland could see the Father and the Son. We shall explore this and other fascinating things as we continue.

Keep watching

 

 

Part Three
https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/the-savior-in-kirtland-part-three/

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8 Responses to The Savior in Kirtland (Part Two)

  1. Brand Nu says:

    It sounds like a type and shadow of things to come.

  2. Exactly… you beat me to the punch.

    In my next post I will allude to the fact that Joel 1 prophesied about a preliminary solemn assembly in Kirtland that will portend the great day of the Lord is Near, while Joel 2 speaks of the second solemn assembly that starts the great day of the Lord.

    In the second solemn assembly, the congregation is sanctified and the bridegroom comes out of his chamber.

  3. Fabledsog says:

    2 Thess. is a real gem, not only is it pretty straight forward, but it also contains deeper meanings. It seems to be another testament of the three watches doctrine. It also is a marvelous linking passage to D&C 45. It may also contain a very controversial doctrine ever known to man, which could be the very motive for the opposition. It might also be part of the reason for D&C 124:41. I’m sure there are other things that have been kept hidden concerning the council of heaven in preparation for this earth.

    As much as I anticipate the fulness of times, it seems to me that particular dispensation is a long way off. I just can’t ignore D&C 76:106, which clearly ties in with the seventh seal before and after the millennium. But if the fulness of times is not exactly near? What could possibly be near, well I believe this has to do in understanding what time actually is. Suffice to say, time is the greatest enemy to mankind. And I believe that the Lord has given significant clues as to why that is.

    Since the Lord has given our planetary lights to be signs, and the prophetic absence of their light to be redirecting to Christ. But there are the implications that go largely unnoticed as to why they withdraw in the first place. It is interesting that the Lord calls the sun a he and the moon a she. And in a verse of D&C 84:100; of the new song of Zion, it is shocking to discover that in the same sentence that satan is bound, time is no longer. Could that be telling us, that satan is somehow involved with the sun? That the very object by which we calculate time, and gives us light and energy to be the habitation of the son of perdition. If that be the case, what in tarnation is the earth doing revolving around the sun. If the earth is poetically being described as rolling on her wings, it tells me that she is being dragged against her will, and or gave in.

    As far as I am concerned, the earth really was the center and the sun revolved around her. But as made known in Isaiah 14, satan somehow gained control of the sun and somehow exalted it above the terrestrial earth and moon, and the telestial stars. And he possibly created the other planets to restrain the earth to have it worship his throne upon the sun, in the likeness of the kingdom of God and His Christ.

    When the sun is viewed as an abode of destruction, it isn’t too hard to figure out that the moon represents Babylon which is really a reflection of the earth, and the stars represent the portion of telestial saints led away. What is the purpose though? The Lord obviously allowed the above scenario for a reason. I believe the answer lies in the mystical action of the Lord after those signs. After all Christ is the beginning and the end, author and finisher, even the fulness of time(s); being eternity Himself.

    I agree with the sentiments that there is a clear distinction of blessings. In granting those prepared to receive a knowledge of God and His Son, and a fulness of the Father and the Son; by ordination of the high priesthood and patriarchal blessing. And also being temporally sanctified in the flesh (transfigured) by the law of Christ, between a knowledge of Christ to those pure in heart.

    However, even though the saints transgressed the law of Christ, and lost the fulness of the Melchizedek Priesthood to behold God the Father and His glory. Christ has His own glory, even the glory of being the Only Begotten of the Father; being full of grace and truth.

    As a witness to that glory, I would like to give a synopsis as to what I learned from that experience where I literally lost the track of time. While I won’t describe the manner of appearance of the Lord, but what I have since learned is that the Only Begotten is truly in the bosom of the Father. I have truly learned that God is indefinably invisible, inconceivable by the mortal mind and unknown to the eyes of men.

    I know the Lord won’t be offended, when I say the image of the Father and the Son upon the throne, is just that. The image that the one and only immeasurable Creator has imagined to manifest Itself unto those who are prepared to receive the image. Don’t get me wrong though, I still believe that the image of the Father and the Son is God, just that I have learned that God manifests that same image infinitely.

    When I received a knowledge of Christ, I noticed that the kingdoms of glory are patterned after Christ’s image. By the image of His countenance, I was impressed with a dispersed body of light, a gathered body of light, and the flesh that I could see proceeded to outshine the previous lights exceedingly. While I know that I was no where near the throne in the highest kingdom, I still felt ascended. I was such in awe; I didn’t realize that I had ascended into the bosom of the Father to the sanctified state of my spirit. Along with it, came the stark realization that the earth is in the bosom of the Only Begotten. We are literally living inside of God, albeit in a fallen state, nonetheless the notion that the realm of the created earth is in the Creator is very eye opening. Scriptures of creation, redemption, and sanctification of our earth takes on a whole new light. That the Only Begotten and Zion will truly rest when the man of sin is taken out of the way.

    While I can attest that I have witnessed the glory of the Christ, I cannot say that I have received a fulness of Christ’s glory. But I sincerely doubt that time and Christ can co-exist, even when Christ is not manifesting in His fulness. Before the defilement of the Kirtland temple, it was a house of eternity, even a gateway of eternity. When the Lord stands, that is a pretty clear indicator that the spot is sanctified. When the Lord or His angels levitate, then that indicates the spot is not sanctified; unless a time disruption had occurred. For instance the three days of darkness that the Nephites had after the crucifixion of the Christ, allowed Christ to visit and walk among the Nephites for three days. While it would do no harm to Christ, but days would have been shortened to some degree.

    So in addition to the kingdoms of glory, which is telestial (servants of God), and terrestrial (Holy Spirit), and celestial (Son of God); is the bosom of the Father (Paradise), and bosom of Only Begotten (Earth). And this is why Christ is the fulness of time, because He represents all men of this world and the fulness of times because He represents all men of worlds not numbered unto men.

    Now what does this have to do with Kirtland, since Christ is the only one able to open the seven sealed book. I believe when Christ returns to the vineyard via the three watches, that the seals reaffirm the opening of themselves. It could be said that Moroni was a sign of the first seal, which led the saints to the safety and peace of Kirtland, until the peace was taken and the second seal was prevalent. And shortly after the third seal was confirmed by the famine of the Word of God, but the oil and wine was left unharmed which meant the possible return to peace. And then the fourth seal came which Isaiah makes mention of, and finally the fifth seal which obviously signifies martyrdom. And so it seems to me that martyrdom is a clear sign of apostasy. And I believe that the high priesthood, and the fulness of the Aaronic priesthood was finally taken, when Joseph and Hyrum was martyred, all of which happened during the second watch. The third watch will no doubt be on a larger scale encompassing the whole world.

  4. Fabledsog says:

    Watcher,

    I don’t know if I have said this or not, but I admire you. I admire your passion for the intricacies in the origination of mormonism; I sometimes think that I would be far less passionate if I was not compelled by other things. I deeply wish that my father held the same passion in understanding what really took place in the beginnings of the church. Things just might be in a visible motion. But I have to learn the true value of patience.

    Since seeing others expectant of all that the Lord truly has to offer, and I am not just talking about crowns, and mansions. It has churned a burning vigor in me to help others to actually enjoy the presence of the Father and the Son. I want to let others that they are not just a number, or a statistic, or even a shadow of their forefathers.

    I am thankful that you have taken the time and the energy to bring fascinating things about the servants to light, and highlighting the servants that played just as much of a role as Joseph for the benefit of mankind. Also for the deciphering of the atonement statue, that held Joseph hostage for perverseness of relationships, doctrines and covenants. That perchance others might understand that Joseph was not really a man of deceit, but a man for just principles.

    I admire your courage in acknowledging that a notable ancestor of yours. He who was in the wrong in bringing about and sustaining the dangerous charades, and leaving a legacy of irresponsibility in office, doctrine, and a complete disregard for the authoritative policy of the members’ voice. A person I actually loathe, not only for his extreme prejudices. As a person should never be another’s property even if they are different race or gender. But also for being a kiss up to Joseph, and in addition backbiting Joseph’s wife, and shocking Joseph’s lastborn. I wonder if he knew what an angel of retribution really is; a person would actually desire the buffetings of the adversary, instead of an agitated angel. I’m sure there will be plenty of destroying angels, along with the saving angels.

    Anyways, I also appreciate your courage in acknowledging and exposing the very cruel and sinister nature that the reward for being a good member is. And your zeal for finding and bringing to attention the nuggets of understanding and pearls of wisdom, found in unlikely places is to me just inspiring.

    And I am thankful that you have inclined your ear to my troubles, even though my uncanny circumstances may prove to not be so useful in the days to come. But if so, then either way I am honored and delighted that I have been acquainted with such a genuine, kindred spirit. You sir have earned my respect, and you are an Elias in your own right. And it wouldn’t surprise me if you end up like Sidney in the worlds to come; but that’s since I believe that the inheritances of glories is not just the ending but also a beginning. I believe that the Lord sends seasoned spirits to help new spirits, but that’s a mystery for another time. But still I’m sure that the seer of righteousness and spokesman of truth will be grateful to you in helping them by creating substantive anticipation.

    I just thought that I would share these thoughts and feelings. That I have had for quite awhile now, before the new year that is quickly approaching and a possible, eventful Passover soon to come. And this because, it has been four years of me being an avid reader of your blogs, and probably one of the few that knows you scrapped one. And so I just hope you understand that vain ambition is not a part of me. And of all the comments I have done, I hope none came off with the spirit of contention, if so I am sorry and probably was not my intention. And if I perchance offended you in some way, my apologies and I hope you understand. How I don’t have quite the luxury believing in certain particulars which may or may not have offended you. Since the beginning of me in trying to understand my path in life, I supposedly offended quite a few in making startling declarations when I was not speaking in secret. By which I have been obscured by exile

    So even though, you may not have the power to move mountains, part seas, or rush the winds, yet. I hope you know that you have the power to move hearts, and your dedication and devotion to the gospel has moved mine, and you have inspired me enough so that my heart would not wax cold, and harden. I believe that the exhibit of such faith to perform such acts, to be the true miracle. To cut through the all or nothing philosophy, that is inspiring to me.

    Fabled

    Btw if you are wondering why my comments are abnormally long, it must be the aspiring novelist in me. And probably also due to me being related to a very famous 19th century poet, one whose linguistics were attributed to the so called fabrication of the Book of Mormon, which is pretty ironic to me, on several accounts

  5. Fabled

    “time is the greatest enemy to mankind. And I believe that the Lord has given significant clues as to why that is….it is shocking to discover that in the same sentence that satan is bound, time is no longer. Could that be telling us, that satan is somehow involved with the sun?”

    Interesting observations Fabled.

    I have to wonder if in fact Satan is in fact somehow involved with time, more that we understand. He was the one the instigated the transgression that resulted in the earth falling from a paradisaical glory to a fall state in time.

    He is the one that needs to tempt in order for agency to take place.

    He is the designated God of this world that functions in time…

    Anyway, interesting thoughts!

  6. Fabled

    I always love to hear from you and enjoy your comments.

    I no longer use the hotmail email account that we used to correspond with… that is why I have not responded if you have sent any messages.

    My new gmail acct is at the top of the blog.

    Watcher

  7. Fabledsog says:

    Watcher,

    I have not emailed recently, in fact the latest was the rest of the unfolding story. Shortly after that time I had to reformat my pc. So I don’t know you if you got the rest of the story or not. Either way, I was down in the dumps again, after discovering a tragedy that confirms my theory. But the Lord has taught me that with the greater light comes the greater darkness. Learning the mysterious convoluted story of the sun of righteousness, has led to the illumination of the fallen son, even his past identity.

    This is why I proposed the theory of the fallen sun, so those that are watching won’t be as alarmed when the sixth seal opens. Since I believe the Lord alluded to it in D&C 112:24. Plus my timeline views that Christ came just before the fourth seal, to conquer death and hell. And since I view the meridian of time to be the middle of a 6000 year period, because the seventh day is sanctified, by the final coming of the Lord, then it seems to me that we are in the final days of the fifth seal period.

    I believe the return of the servants, won’t be discreet. The sealing up of the elect will be heralded by Elias the restorer, and Elijah the prophet. The words of D&C 1, 65,133, will be heard by everyone on the earth, which is partly why the Lord pours out His Spirit upon all flesh. I think that we are in a paradox, as it is hard to understand the Lord without understanding His servants. And it is hard to understand the servants without understanding the Lord. When Elias the restorer comes from the east, I believe that many prophecies will be fulfilled, and many that one wouldn’t think. And I have realized that Elias might be already sealed into his forehead, by the time he comes.

    While I don’t want to spoil the surprise, but D&C 1, 65,133 might contain a veiled preliminary process before the heralding of the gospel to the whole world. And I believe I am on to something, and I think the adversary feels very threatened by it, as I was attacked in the night by him twice within one week just recently. The first time he just wailed into my arm, leaving it sore for a few days, and the last time was the worst. Both times, I had to see a frightening portrayal of him, and had to endure the breath of his fury. The first time I just felt this rush, like a violent windstorm beating on my right side, since I was lying on my left side, while seeing a moving image of the devil mocking me.

    But the other night was the worst; my whole body had to endure the violent winds of the adversary. The villain woke me up again, and tried to possess me that time. I guess he took my degrading comment about his buffetings to heart. While he was unsuccessful, he was very close; it got so bad an angel had to intervene. I figured the name of Christ would scare him off, but nope he had to pop that same image of his from the previous time in my face. This time he was close enough for me to notice his scaly skin, snake nose, numerous mini horns on head and face, jagged crowns on the horns on his head. The monstrosity looked like a reptilian demon. He looked like a combination of darth maul from star wars, like voldemort from harry potter, and the lizard from the new spider man movie, with a set of teeth like venom from spider man series.

    I think the terror arises just from feeling helpless, and being caught off guard. But that image of him was designed to scare the living daylights out of people.
    I had to keep myself awake, so nothing worse would happen, but cavalry arrived and I heard rebukes, and swords clash, and to my surprise I seen brief and minor visions. I suppose was to administer comfort. The visions filled my mind, and then left just as quickly, as if I was watching a slide show. I think there might have been three to five images of scenarios, all stand stills. But I distinctly remembered three, and I would like to share them since it is fitting with the post. And they were completely grayscale and detailed, while my imagination is colorful and murky.

    The first was a camera shot of a face of a man; I didn’t exactly see the whole face. I just had seen a side angle of about 45 degrees. And on the right hand of him was a person with a scowl on his face. It seems to me that I seen Joshua the high priest and the main antagonist in that one.
    The second one to my surprise was the event of Joseph and Oliver getting visited by the Lord and the angelic messengers. Joseph was on the left and Oliver on the right. It seemed as if my perspective was back a bit and I had a ceiling perspective. The physical veil was either gone, or I could see pass it I don’t know. But there the Lord was with His right hand palm angled to the witnesses, and left hand pointing up presumably to the Father. And directly under His feet was the aura where the pulpit was, which gave clear contrast from the railings. And again I couldn’t tell if it was gold, since I viewed it in grayscale.
    The third one was a little disturbing, it was a man standing; he had his hand in the air. I seemed to be behind him, but before me was this man dressed peculiar, and in front of him were all these people and it looked like they were on fire, and seemed to be in panic. And I think that it was one of the witnesses from Revelation. But I could be wrong.

    While the visions could be my own mind playing tricks on me, but I feel they were supernatural anyway. Especially after the violent windstorm I went through.

    On a lighter note, I have a joke. Now warning though it’s probably best to not use it to win a argument. So here it goes. Some women complain that men don’t listen. But alls I have to say is, well the first man listened and look what happened. While I take the creation story very seriously, sometimes I have to laugh right back at the snake, knowing full well the joke is on him.

  8. Ryan says:

    This helped me understand a scripture that has been hidden from me for a while.

    18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church—

    19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the dFirstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.

    D&C 107:18-19

    I used to wonder how come this hadn’t happened to me or how come I haven’t heard more about the heaven’s being opened for those that hold the Melchizedek Priesthood.

    However, in the beginning of section 107 Joseph mentions that there are only 2 priesthoods not 3 as he made mention later in Nauvoo.

    I know that he also has stated that the church (meaning LDS not Church of Christ) has only enjoined the Patriarchal priesthood.

    So in the scripture below he clearly has reference to the Higher or Melchizedek Priesthood. Can one read that into the entire section or does the section jump between Melchizedek and Patriarchal?

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