Do You Believe Joseph Smith was a Fallen Prophet?

October 8, 2017

A longtime reader of this blog got an email from an acquaintance asking him if he believes that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.

The content of the email is as follows:

Hi XXXX

We have never discussed your position regarding Joseph Smith but I’m told you believe him to be a fallen prophet.

Would you be willing to email me about your perspective regarding JS and how he fell as a prophet, assuming I have been informed correctly?

I’m sure your time is very valuable so as an alternative would you mind sharing any links you believe would do your position justice that I could investigate on my own.

Either way, I appreciate you considering my request.

Thank you,

XXXX XXXXXX

Here is the response that was provided

[Editorial Note: I have taken the liberty of making a few modifications and additions for further clarification]

Hi XXXX

Great to hear from you. 
 
Hope all is going well for you and your family.
 
In answer to your question, I believe that Joseph Smith is one of the greatest prophets that has ever lived and that he is getting ready to return and fulfill all of the ancient prophecies about him, as well as all of the unconditional prophecies about him contained in modern revelation

I think the term “fallen prophet” is a very confusing term.

I kind of wish Joseph Smith would have never introduced that term because people assume that it implies that a true prophet falls from grace and never returns into a state of grace.

I am not convinced that is what the term refers to.

I am aware of several ancient prophets that sinned, but I am not convinced any of them became unredeemable and could not be restored to a state of grace.

Countless prophecies reveal that Joseph Smith would stumble and then recover. One of them is in Isaiah 49. In that Davidic Lamentation we are informed that God’s latter day servant fails to gather Israel and laments about it, then the Lord assures him that he will yet gather Israel.

Several passages inform us that Joseph Smith is a “type and shadow” of Moses. (He is one like unto Moses)

As a latter-day Moses, Joseph Smith mirrored (or will mirror in the future) every major event that took place in the life of Moses.

The mistake that most people make when comparing Joseph Smith to Moses is that they only remember the positive and faith-promoting aspects of the life and ministry of Moses.

However, one of the most prominent and profound events in the life of Moses is when he committed a grievous sin of idolatry before the Lord. ( when he struck the rock with his staff and took credit for the miracle instead of sanctifying the Lord (giving credit to the Lord) as commanded. By so doing, he enticed the Children of Israel to put their trust in him, instead of God)

Because of that sin, the Lord told Moses that he could not cross over the river Jordan into the promised land with the Children of Israel.

He also informed Moses that he needed to forfeit his life.

Little is mentioned about how the Lord took Moses life, although Jude informs us that Michael the Archangel contended with the Devil in a disputation over the body of Moses.

As with many narratives in the Bible, there is a deeper narrative that sheds light on that surface narrative about the sin of Moses and the explanation about why Moses sinned.

The story behind the story is that prior to Moses’ committing this grievous sin, as he was walking down the mountain with the tablets containing the higher law, the Lord informed Moses that the Children of Israel had “corrupted themselves”.

Moses then observed that the Children of Israel were committing idolatry and worshipping a golden calf.

Because of this Moses made the following declaration to the Children of Israel:

“Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Lord; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.”

Moses knew this transgression would bring the wrath of God down upon the Children of Israel. Indeed, the Lord informed Moses that he was going to CONSUME the Children of Israel off of the face of the earth.

In response to that grievous sin, Moses petitioned the Lord and offered HIMSELF as an INTERCESSORY “ATONEMENT” OFFERING in behalf of the apostate Children of Israel.

The details about this negotiation between Moses and God are quite impressive and revealing. The reader is encouraged to read the account for themselves.

Again, when Moses first intervened on behalf of the Children of Israel, the Lord exclaimed that he was going to consume the Children of Israel from off the face of the earth. He also stated that he would use Moses and his posterity to make a great nation:

Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.”

One might assume that such a response from the Lord would be acceptable to Moses and would take a great burden off of him. After all, he had labored painstakingly with the ungrateful, murmuring, and unbelieving Children of Israel and now was being told by the Lord that he would no longer need to labor with them and that his posterity would become a great nation.

In the act of compassion that is a type and shadow of the infinite atonement that would eventually be provided by Christ, Moses continued to intervene and negotiate with the Lord on behalf of Israel.

Although all atonement offerings before this time had to do with birds, animals, and precious metals, Moses offered HIMSELF up as an atonement offering.

This was the declaration Moses made to the Children of Israel:

“Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Lord; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.”

The terms of the atonement offering that Moses suggested when the Lord did not initially agree to forgive the transgression of Israel, is beyond my comprehension:

“..blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.”

I don’t pretend to fully understand what Moses actually meant by that negotiation. It seems incomprehensible to me that Moses would forfeit his salvation in behalf of such a rebellious people.

It appears as if the Lord did not accept those terms. The Lord declared that it would not be Moses’ name that would be blotted out of the book, it would be those that had sinned:

“And the Lord said unto Moses, whosoever hath sinned against me, him w will I blot out of my book..”

Nevertheless, God accepted the intervention of Moses and withheld his wrath from consuming the children of Israel at that time.

However, the Lord’s wrath upon ancient Israel was only delayed until the day of visitation in the last days.

“..nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.”

A contextual study of this narrative and the events associated with it indicates to me that as a result of this intercession made by Moses, the sins of Israel were temporarily placed upon Moses and Aaron and they acted out the sins committed by the Children of Israel.

The Old Testament documents that when Moses and the Children of Israel arrived at the Jordan River, the Lord allowed Moses to climb a mountain and gaze over upon the land of promise that he was being prevented to enter. At that point, Moses pleaded with the Lord to change his mind and allow him to cross the Jordan and enter the land with the Children of Israel.

The Lord would not change the terms of the consequences of Moses’ sin.

Moses was not allowed to accompany Israel across the river into the promised land. Moses was directed by the Lord to go to the bottom of the mount wherein his life would come to an end.

Despite this abrupt ending to the life of Moses because of the sin that he committed, the scriptures and the Lord make it clear that Moses did not fall from grace. He continues to be revered by the Lord and the Lord’s future servants as a great prophet.

In the latter days, Moses was sent to Joseph and Oliver as a ministering angel ( Section 110).

Several prophecies in the Old Testament prophesy that in the latter days, there would be a prophet that would once again offer himself up as an atonement offering. One of them notes that the latter-day servant would not depart from the mercy of the Lord despite committing a great sin and being chastised by the rod of men:

“If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.”

Additionally, the Dead Sea Scrolls prophesy about a latter-day servant that would make an atonement offering for the children of Israel.

Unlike the atonement that would be made by Christ, the atonement offering made by this latter-day servant would be a temporal one for the sins of his generation.

In addition to the sin offering made by the servant, people would invent lots of lies and shameful things about him.

This servant would one day ARISE after making his atonement.

It would be during a time of lying and violence and great wrath. At that time, the servant would overthrow his generation:

ds prophecy.png

 
 [Note: The brackets in the above text are provided by the translators, not me]

 

It is my belief that Joseph Smith is the latter-day servant that offered himself as an atonement offering like unto Moses.

He experienced a very similar scenario with Latter-day Israel, as the one that Moses had with ancient Israel.

Just as Moses attempted to deliver the higher law and get the Children of Israel to repent and see the face of God, Joseph Smith also attempted to get the Children of Israel to live the law of God and behold his face.

Just as Moses sinned before God after offering an atonement on behalf of the Children of Israel, Joseph Smith did also.

Just as Moses delivered the Children of Israel out of bondage with a stretched out arm, ancient prophecy informs us that a latter day servant will once again lead latter day Israel out of bondage with an outstretched arm.

Modern scripture agrees with this and identifies Joseph Smith as the latter day Moses that returns with power and an outstretched arm.

Notice how the ancient scriptural texts regarding the “stretched out arm of Moses” in leading the Children of Israel out of bondage compare to the keywords in the prophecy in the scriptural text referring to how Joseph Smith will lead latter-day Israel out of Bondage with a stretched out arm:

 

The Stretched Out Arm of Moses
Exodus & Deuteronomy
The Stretched Out Arm of Joseph Smith
D&C 103
Exodus 6:6

6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

 

Deuteronomy 4:34

34 Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?

 

Deuteronomy 5:15

15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

 

Deuteronomy 7:19

19 The great temptations which thine eyes saw, and the signs, and the wonders, and the mighty hand, and the stretched out arm, whereby the Lord thy God brought thee out: so shall the Lord thy God do unto all the people of whom thou art afraid.

 

Deuteronomy 9:29

29 Yet they are thy people and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest out by thy mighty power and by thy stretched out arm.

 

Deuteronomy 11:2

2 And know ye this day: for I speak not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the Lord your God, his greatness, his mighty hand, and his stretched out arm,

 

15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;

16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.

17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.

20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.

21 Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

22 Therefore let my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., say unto the strength of my house, my young men and the middle aged—Gather yourselves together unto the land of Zion, upon the land which I have bought with money that has been consecrated unto me.

23 And let all the churches send up wise men with their moneys, and purchase lands even as I have commanded them.

24 And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you to drive you from my goodly land, which I have consecrated to be the land of Zion, even from your own lands after these testimonies, which ye have brought before me against them, ye shall curse them;

25 And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies.

26 And my presence shall be with you even in avenging me of mine enemies, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

27 Let no man be afraid to lay down his life for my sake; for whoso layeth down his life for my sake shall find it again.

28 And whoso is not willing to lay down his life for my sake is not my disciple.

 

A comparison of the above passages clearly establishes Joseph Smith as the servant that will lead latter-day Israel out of bondage with power and a stretched out arm just as Moses did anciently. An all-knowing God who has the past, present, and future continually before his eyes has given an unconditional promise.

I believe that a close examination of the life and ministry of Joseph Smith parallels the narrative found in the life and ministry of Moses.

After Joseph Smith restored the scriptures and the LAW and built the Kirtland Temple, the latter-day saints rejected the law.

Following that, Joseph offered an acceptable offering unto the Lord just as Moses had done anciently. In so doing, the sins of Israel were placed upon him as the intercessor just as they had been placed upon Moses. Because of this, Joseph began acting out the very sins that latter-day Israel had been guilty of committing just as Moses had previously acted out.

Joseph’s Early Kirtland Years vs. the Later Nauvoo Years
 
 
In the early Kirtland years Joseph Smith- 
 
1- produced scripture that revealed that the law of the gospel required the marital law of monogamy. (see section 42 & 49). Additionally, the Book of Mormon warns against the evils and polygamy and reveals that polygamy is one of the primary reasons why God declared that the Lamanites were more righteous than the Nephites and that the Lamanites would not be destroyed off of the face of the land and would eventually become a blessed people.   (Jacob 3)
 
2- produced scripture and taught that involvement in any kind of secret society that required blood oaths were offshoots of the covenant that Satan and Cain entered into, and that we should expose them and avoid them like the plague. The Book of Mormon provides details about the very first secret combination, revealing the same dark elements found in Free Masonry. In modern revelation, the Lord complimented Elder Warren Cowdery for separating himself from the craft of Masonry. 
 
 3- in concert with Sidney Rigdon taught and canonized what has become known as the Lectures on Faith which taught that God the Father has always existed as God and has never been a mortal man. They teach that there have NEVER been any Gods before or beside him. He is the all-powerful self-existent being from which all other created beings gain their power and existence. 
 
A decade later during the late Nauvoo years, Joseph Smith completely contradicted is prior teachings and many of the scriptures he brought forth. Among other things, he- 
 
1- secretly introduced a spiritual wife form of celestial polygamy that totally contradicts the marital law of celestial monogamy. It totally contradicts what the Bible, Book of Mormon and modern revelation. 
 
2- led the saints into the dark practice of Free Masonry and supported the building of multiple Masonic Temples during the time when the Lord was chastising the saints for not focusing all of their time, energy and money on building the Nauvoo Temple. He also allowed (and possibly endorsed) the creation of the Danites which was a secret order within the church that entered into a secret blood oath to avenge the latter day saints against the “gentiles”. The Danites are responsible for wreaking havoc on several non-Mormon communities and possibly guilty of committing murders. That secret organization apparently provided the inspiration if not the leadership and manpower for what would later become known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. 
 
3- He taught the blasphemous King Follett Discourse which contradicts virtually every major point about the nature and character of God contained in the Lectures on Faith as well as the Bible and Book of Mormon and original Doctrine and Covenant. It falsely teaches that God the Father was once a mortal man and that he is just one in an infinite number of Gods that went before him. It falsely teaches that we can become a God with a capital “G” rather than gods with a small “g”, ie, the sons of God who reach godhood and receive of the fulness through the atonement of Christ.  
 

Other teachings and practices during the Nauvoo period that were incongruent with the pure and simple fulness of the Gospel that was introduced a decade earlier could be sited but for now, this will suffice.

Just as there was a secret narrative behind the sin of Moses, the same was true of the sins committed by Joseph Smith.

Before the later years in Nauvoo, the latter-day Saints became an apostate people just as ancient Israel did. The entire church was condemned by the Lord in 1834 and they were rejected as a church with their dead in 1841.

 
Joseph Smith offered himself as a temporal atonement offering in behalf of the apostate latter day saints just as Moses had offered himself as an atonement offering for ancient Israel.
 
All of this was foretold by the Lord in 1829 when the Lord warned the saints that he would deliver them over to Satan if they hardened their hearts and failed to repent. 
 

This has all been documented in the following book.

book 1

 
 
 
 
You can listen to the three chapters documenting the intercession of Joseph Smith and the Atonement Statute prophecy below-
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yaZYCK6iXs
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDC5AQgNajg
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO1oc6OTbzA
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5B0Xe3UPS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB2LQejPx7A
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ZG9DJK0ZY

 

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Notable Emails #33: “during the Messianic years, John the Baptist

October 2, 2017

[Editorial Notes: It has been a long time since I have shared some notable emails. This series got ahead of me and I lost track of many great exchanges. Some of these exchanges are quite old.

Many very interesting exchanges have been lost in the shuffle. I may go back and try to retrieve some for the next installment if I can. My apologies to those that have had some good exchanges that have not been included.]

Email Exchange #1
“Salvation is nothing more nor less than to triumph over all our
enemies and put them under our feet.”

Dear Watcher,

I was intrigued the first time I read your suggestion that, as Moses had offered to bear the sins of his congregation, so JSjr had done similarly.

You described the scapegoat in the story of the two goats presented yearly for the High Priest to make his selection of the goat to be driven into the wilderness.

Now I’ve not been a student of the Old Testament so I followed along without expending a great deal of energy.

But tonight I read an article which was based on the same OT story, but also included other facts which I wondered whether you had ever considered or rejected. This is actually part 9 of a 10 part series and I only listened to it because it was recommended by Steve Quayle on one of his podcasts. It’s not long, so I copied it off for you. [The article is not included in this post but you can read it here ]

My Response

Interesting article..

That is a wonderful parallel about Jesus building upon the rock of the watchers… of course, Joseph Smith and the scriptures inform us that the literal meaning is the “rock of revelation”, nevertheless, I love the parallel..

I can remember reading about the evil watchers and wondering if I was ill advised to call myself onewhoiswatching and accepting the nickname of Watcher LOL… luckily there is a positive use of the word watcher in the scriptures as well…

Also, I remember reading about Azazel in the Book of Enoch (although spelled slightly differently than in the OT) and wondering if it was referring to and relevant to the Azazel in the Atonement Statute in Lev 16… it really sobered me up wondering if in fact Joseph could have been an evil demon that did a work of deception, either from the beginning of his ministry, or if he was a true prophet at first, perhaps he fell never to repent after falling from a high and holy calling.

Ultimately, I have concluded that the name is similar in the Book of Enoch but does not refer to the same historic figure.

His response

I think your nom de plume of OneWhoIsWatching (Watcher) is the best name I’ve seen for the type of work you do. It is such a great name that OneWhoIsSearching has given you credit by his close approximation.

The storyline for the 10 episodes is that Jesus came to the earth to die on the cross, not only to redeem humanity, but also to destroy the work of the evil ones.

That statement brought me up sharply because I had just finished working on my poetic rendition of DC 3. There are 12 references where Jesus tells JSjr that “I will” perform something and two more where he says that “will I” also referring to performing a thing.

Word crunching “I will” yields 205 citations to RLDS DC 1-144. But, section 3 makes specific reference to the destruction of the evil works of satan.

2a Verily I say unto you:

That I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing.

This was given in connection with the loss of the BOM pages during the translation effort. The Lord says also:

And thus I will confound those who have altered My words.
9d I will not suffer that they shall destroy My work.
Yea I will show unto them that My wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil.

Two other comments:

1. I was struck by the forcefulness of the repetitive use of “I will” which is stated as a strong, confident warriorlike being. It thrilled me to see that the Lord was so committed to taking charge.

2. I’m attaching a copy of the full section because I have started separating and highlighting the opening Lord’s statements in introducing a particular subject matter. Looked at this way, it is as if the Lord were putting in his own “heading” which again is a great help to the readers.

Finally, I showed this technique to my congregation (small though it may be) last sunday, and they commented that even though they had read section 85 (the olive leaf) many, many times, this time they felt like they were seeing it really for the first time. It’s really fun to share with the saints that which brings renewed excitement about our current scriptures.  [DC 3 poetry]

My Response

“The storyline for the 10 episodes is that Jesus came to the earth to die on the cross, not only to redeem humanity, but also to destroy the work of the evil ones.”

Very profound observations ….

You have done some marvelous keyword crunching magic in unlocking higher truth.

You have hit on two of my very favorite topics that I have been pondering.

One of the overriding contextual narratives that shows up time and again throughout the scriptures that one needs to understand in order to fully appreciate the plan of salvation is the fact that there must needs be “opposition in all things” ie, opposing forces in all things and that one of the primary reasons we have been sent to this earth life is to overcome the opposing forces.

As I was doing my study of the restoration of the high priesthood I came across several passages and statements from Joseph Smith that address this topic of destroying and overcoming the work of the evil forces… including the the following definition of salvation:

Salvation is nothing more nor less than to triumph over all our enemies and put them under our feet. And when we have power to put all enemies under our feet in this world, and a knowledge to triumph over all evil spirits in the world to come, then we are saved, as in the case of Jesus, who was to reign until He had put all enemies under His feet, and the last enemy was death… Salvation is for a man to be saved from all his enemies… TPJS Page 297 & 305

Section 50 was given just prior to the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood for the purpose of preparing the elders for the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood. In that Section we are informed that those that are “ordained of Godbecome a possessor of all things and all things are subject to them:

26 He that is ordained of God and sent forth, the same is appointed to be the greatest, notwithstanding he is the least and the servant of all.
27 Wherefore, he is possessor of all things; for all things are subject unto him, both in heaven and on the earth,

The topic of “when ‘I will’” is one of Mrs. Watchers favorite topics.

When asked when the Lord will make his move in pulling down the towers of the enemies and destroying the work of Satan, the Lord replied; “when ‘I will’“.

26 He that is ordained of God and sent forth, the same is appointed to be the greatest, notwithstanding he is the least and the servant of all.
27 Wherefore, he is possessor of all thing58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you, avenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.
59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?
60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;; for all things are subject unto him, both in heaven and on the earth,

Just as attorneys like you have their own secret language that the masses don’t understand, where English words and phrases mean completely different things than commonly assumed, scripture also has words that have a deeper meaning sometimes that need to be searched out.

We have a tendency to take His words for granted in the scriptures and thus, we miss the real deeper intent.

There is POWER in words once they are understood and used properly.

There is a book that you would really enjoy if you have not already read it Ed.

It is called “Written by the Finger of God” by Joe Sampson.

I am providing a few screen shots that pertain to the cryptic key phrase “all things

Enjoy

Inline image 1

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Email Exchange #2
The Dispensation of Mercy

Watcher,

I remember reading somewhere in your book or one of your many blogs about the dispensation of mercy.

I cannot recall if it was dispensation of Abraham, because Christ appeared to Joseph and Oliver standing on the mercy seat or if the dispensation of mercy was the last dispensation prior to the dispensation of Abraham.

Here’s why I ask.

I was reading in your book, and you had mentioned that the term “from day to day” is really referring to “dispensation to dispensation”.

You had quoted 2 Ne. 28:32

Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to day, they will deny me; nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them, saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.

Yet the Lord says that he will be merciful unto them. Then I found this interesting phrase, “all the day long”

In other words, all the dispensation long.

So I did a word search for “all the day long” and found these interesting verses.

Jacob 5:47
But what could I have done more in my vineyard? Have I slackened mine hand, that I have not nourished it? Nay, I have nourished it, and I have digged about it, and I have pruned it, and I have dunged it; and I have stretched forth mine hand almost all the day long, and the end draweth nigh. And it grieveth me that I should hew down all the trees of my vineyard, and cast them into the fire that they should be burned. Who is it that has corrupted my vineyard?

Jacob 6:4
And how merciful is our God unto us, for he remembereth the house of Israel, both roots and branches; and he stretches forth his hands unto them all the day long; and they are a stiffnecked and a gainsaying people; but as many as will not harden their hearts shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

Jacob 6:7
For behold, after ye have been nourished by the good word of God all the day long, will ye bring forth evil fruit, that ye must be hewn down and cast into the fire?

D&C 43:25
How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and by the voice of lightnings, and by the voice of tempests, and by the voice of earthquakes, and great hailstorms, and by the voice of famines and pestilences of every kind, and by the great sound of a trump, and by the voice of judgment, and by the voice of mercy all the day long, and by the voice of glory and honor and the riches of eternal life, and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not!

For me, I tend to remember that the dispensation of Abraham was one of mercy. And as I follow the scripture chain it looks like that during this dispensation prior to the dispensation of the fulness of times or the ushering in of the 3rd Watch that we are being felt after, or God’s hand is stretched out still and we are being nourished by the good word.

That his mercy can be found by those who take his word to be their guide. But there will be many who will deny him and his word because they put their trust in the arm of the flesh as stated in 2 Ne 28:32 or 31

Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men.

My Response

Great string of related passages thank you for sharing

I had two ah ha’s regarding these topics.

One had to do with how the protestants characterize and differentiate between the definitions of mercy and grace

Question: “What is the difference between mercy and grace?”

Answer: Mercy and grace are often confused. While the terms have similar meanings, grace and mercy are not the same.

To summarize the difference: mercy is God not punishing us as our sins deserve, and grace is God blessing us despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mercy is deliverance from judgment. Grace is extending kindness to the unworthy.

Another similar quote from a protestant site is as follows:

“Grace is what God gives us when we don’t deserve and mercy is when God doesn’t give us what we do deserve”

Although there is some overlap in the use of the two terms and there are always exceptions to the rule, I have noticed that when the fulness was on the earth, grace seemed to be the primary emphasis and when the fulness was rejected, mercy seemed to be the reoccurring theme in the scriptures… case in point, even though the term grace shows up more times in modern revelation than mercy, the dedicatory prayer in 109 and God’s response to it in 110 that was taking place during the transition point ushering in the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham pleads for mercy instead of requesting grace-
Doctrine and Covenants 109:34

34 O Jehovah, have mercy upon this people, and as all men sin, forgive the transgressions of thy people, and let them be blotted out forever.

Doctrine and Covenants 109:50

50 Have mercy, O Lord, upon the wicked mob, who have driven thy people, that they may cease to spoil, that they may repent of their sins if repentance is to be found;

Doctrine and Covenants 109:54

54 Have mercy, O Lord, upon all the nations of the earth; have mercy upon the rulers of our land; may those principles, which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely, the Constitution of our land, by our fathers, be established forever.

Doctrine and Covenants 109:62

62 We therefore ask thee to have mercy upon the children of Jacob, that Jerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed;

Doctrine and Covenants 109:69

69 Have mercy, O Lord, upon his wife and children, that they may be exalted in thy presence, and preserved by thy fostering hand.

Doctrine and Covenants 109:70

70 Have mercy upon all their immediate connections, that their prejudices may be broken up and swept away as with a flood; that they may be converted and redeemed with Israel, and know that thou art God.

Doctrine and Covenants 110:7

7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house

With that for context, I was struck by the following use of the terms “today” and “day” in conjunction with the term sacrifice in the following passages:

23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

24 For after today cometh the burning—this is speaking after the manner of the Lord—for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon.

” 25 Wherefore, if ye believe me, ye will labor while it is called today.
Those passages came on September 11 1831 just months after the restoration of the fulness.

Before the secret history of Mormonism began to emerge in my consciousness, I assumed “the coming of the son of man” was referring to the final coming of Christ in glory…. and it probably is, taking into consideration the duel fulfillment of prophecy, HOWEVER, I think the passage also had reference to the secret coming of the Lord that would take place about 4 1/4 years later.

The coming of the Son of Man was to be the transition point between a day of Grace when the fulness was on the earth and the day of mercy when the fulness would be taken from the earth and only the KNOWLEDGE of the fulness would remain, requiring us to study the word of God and receive his mercy until the next day change comes. During this time frame that we have been living in, we have not had the opportunity to offer up the daily sacrifice of a broken heart and a contrite spirit or enter into the true law of consecration that can only successfully be lived by those who offer up the daily sacrifice.

I think that the above passages were stating that “today”, or, in other words, the current “dispensation” that they were living in was the “time” or “day” when the SACRIFICE OF A BROKEN HEART AND CONTRITE SPIRIT could be offered up and that TITHING (consecration) could be entered into since the fulness was on the earth.

That “day” or dispensation was to come to an end when the Son of Man came to his temple in 1836.

During that next day, marked by the coming of the Son of Man, was to be a day of Mercy since gospel blessings could not longer be enjoyed in their fulness.

Hence the significance of Joseph’s petition when he and Oliver entered into the covenant for the “continuation of [gospel] blessings” to bridge the gape between the rejection of the fulness and the end of the opportunity to offer up the sacrifice and tithing.

Interestingly, an understanding of the significance of this concept ends up being just one more evidence that the false prophets of our day who are claiming the gospel blessing of the second comforter are deceived.

Email Exchange #3

Watcher,

Hey one more question if you don’t mind.  I am just getting to your 4 PDF timeline videos on Youtube.  I just listened to the first one today.  You mentioned that we could email you and ask for the PDF you put together to go with those videos.  Might I still be able to get a copy?

Also do you believe Jehovah (YHVH) is the name of God the Father and that he is the God of the Old Testament, and the Yeshua is the name of Christ?  I also listen to some of Jake Hiltons stuff and this has been what he has been talking about most as of late so I thought I would ask you in passing.

Thanks much,

My Response

I have attached the graphic

I believe that Christ and the Father are one in the sense that Christ is the tabernacle of element  (or temple) in which the Father dwells. Conversely, the Father is a tabernacle of spirit and flaming fire in which Christ dwells.

This is why we are told multiple times in scripture that they are ONE.

Nevertheless, they have the ability to separate out of each other and to converse with each other and to function as separate and specific beings that can be differentiated one from another which is why there are multiple places in scripture that clearly establish how they can function individually and communicate with each other.

We are informed from the JST genesis that the Father created the Son and that the Father creates all other things through the son.

I was not aware that Hilton was still actively teaching or making videos.. is the stuff you have been listening to recent?

Can you send a link?

His Response

Great thanks for sending that.

Very interesting thoughts you shared there on Who God is. Thanks. This ride just keeps getting crazier and crazier.

A couple thoughts on that if you don’t mind just to help me try and piece this together and understand. I listened to video 2 of those 4 videos you had made today and you had mentioned something along the lines of these people that are claiming to have their second comforter experience just may not be the case do to them being able to skip over all the stuff that the early saints didn’t do. I do have some close friends that I have made that the Spirit has lead me to, and they have had this experience and I do believe them. So my thought is in their experiences they have gone to the Throne room, and then Christ has taken them to The Father and to Mother. So any thoughts on that or is it like you said in your previous email ” Nevertheless, they have the ability to separate out of each other and to converse with each other and to function as specific beings that can be differentiated one from another which is why there are multiple places in scripture that clearly establish how they can function individually and communicate with each other.”

In Video 2 today you also spoke of the Morley Farm experience where several saw the Father and the Son.
Would that just happen to be a time where he had separated himself for whatever purpose needed to be filled that day?

So John 17:11 – And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are

So we’ve been taught all our life that this is one in purpose, and will and desire and so forth. So how can we become one with them where we are clearly separate beings than who God is? Hope that makes sense.

So Here is a scripture that may tie into this, or it may not. It is a scripture that is most interesting the way it reads, it is D&C 88:28. It says:

28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.

So this is something I have been taught elsewhere, that we are more than just spirit and a physical body. That there are more aspects, or bodies that make up the complete us. We are more sophisticated than just spirit and a tabernacle of clay. That these other bodies that make up ourself are out there doing something, we just don’t have full awareness of them yet.

Anyways, I know I am not the clearest writer, and I wish I could explain myself better, but hopefully some of that makes sense. I truly am only seeking truth and greater understanding, and I have come along ways. I do appreciate you letting me bounce some thoughts and questions off of you and to get your feedback with your knowledge.

In regards to Hilton he started making videos again about 2 months ago and has one each week, I really enjoy them actually. He explains his little adventure while he was absent in his first newest one I believe. Here is the link to his youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcfTi_phygwBrnd-OFX11Xw/videos

Also is there any other stuff you would rec

ommend me listen too? I have several hours each day that I can listen while I work.

Thanks much

My Reply

I don’t know what you are looking for in a response. I simply don’t believe your friends are having a valid experience with the true God. Period.
God has said that he would send this apostate people their delusions. This is why so many delusional people are claiming to have the Second Comforter even though they don’t qualify for it and they don’t fully understand what it is.
If you want to believe they are having those experiences that is up to you… but I can’t comment on why they are seeing the Father and Mother when I don’t believe their story.
I believe the fulness was rejected four generations ago and we are in total apostasy. Your friends seem to be oblivious to the fact that they are in darkness, they are not living the LAW and they simply don’t qualify to be admitted into the presence of the Father and the Son.
You said:
“In Video 2 today you also spoke of the Morley Farm experience where several saw the Father and the Son.  Would that just happen to be a time where he had separated himself for whatever purpose needed to be filled that day?
Yes. In an upcoming post I am going to reiterate how the Father and the Son dwell in each other and can separate out when they deem it necessary.
You said:
So John 17:11 – And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are
 
So we’ve been taught all our life that this is one in purpose, and will and desire and so forth.  So how can we become one with them where we are clearly separate beings than who God is?  Hope that makes sense.
 
The relationship of the Father and the Son is typological to how ours will be with them. Those that become exalted will have the Holy Ghost as their mind Just as the Father and Son have the Holy Ghost as their mind. Further, it is very possible that we will dwell in the Father and Son just as the Son dwells in the Father.
These are mystical eternal things that our natural minds cannot comprehend. 
You said:
 
So Here is a scripture that may tie into this, or it may not.  It is a scripture that is most interesting the way it reads, it is D&C 88:28.  It says:
 
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
So this is something I have been taught elsewhere, that we are more than just spirit and a physical body.  That there are more aspects, or bodies that make up the complete us.  We are more sophisticated than just spirit and a tabernacle of clay. That these other bodies that make up ourself are out there doing something, we just don’t have full awareness of them yet.
I believe that God organized intelligences out of unorganized intelligences but he used intelligences from celestial, terrestrial and telestial parts of eternity and that each type ends up going through probation and becoming quickened and resurrected  based on what kind of intelligence they were to begin with… that is why the New Testament speaks of predestination and Joseph Smith did not change that term when he did the inspired version.
Another Response from Him
Also is there any other stuff you would recommend me listen too?  I have several hours each day that I can listen while I work.
I don’t necessarily have anything to recommend.
Thanks for sending the link to Hilton… I don’t accept his testimony. I think he has seen a false Christ just like all of the other false prophets out there.
Another Response from Him
Watcher, I just read your recent post where you outlined many of the questions that I had from my recent emails with you. I thank you for all the information in that post. I wish I had the capacity, and brain power, to comprehend all this information but I simply don’t. I wanted to say I have only read a few chapters of one of Snuffers books. I am not super familiar with him at this time. I ask this question not to be combative, but in all sincerity as I try and understand. Aren’t there many many scriptures where the invitation from our God has been extended to seek Him, to know Him, and to see his face?
I understand that the church has gotten off track in many ways. I understand that we are in a state of apostasy now, but weren’t things also in a lost state when Joseph had his experience in seeing God?
So can’t individuals literally come unto God now in this state of apostasy just as Joseph was able too?
Again I only ask this because I value your understanding. I am weak in my learning and understanding, and so I hope you don’t mind one more email from me. I do appreciate your time.
After I had read that lengthy post, I prayed for help and understanding to try and comprehend all this information because it is quite heavy. I felt the Spirit tell me that it is ok if I don’t understand all of this perfectly at this time, non the less I am still a little curious of my other questions that I asked above.
I thank you again for all you do. Thanks for your time, and I continue to look forward to your future posts.
Thanks much brother,
My Reply
“Aren’t there many many scriptures where the invitation from our God has been extended to seek Him, to know Him, and to see his face?”

I don’t find your questioning to be combative at all. You are asking a really good and important question.

Yes there are lots of scriptures that talk about the importance of seeing Gods face. In fact, Section 76, in my opinion, informs us that all of the elect will see the face of God in the flesh during mortality. (but there are aspects of those passages that are misunderstood, I think the elect that have passed on without having seen the face of God will be returned to the earth and will see God in the flesh)

There are two issues at play here.

The general one has to do with whether or not people (any people) are actually seeing and conversing with Christ and the Father right now.

I happen to believe from my studies that the heavens have become sealed until the appointed time comes and the servants return. The sealing of the heavens has to do with the rejection of the fulness that took place four generations ago. The Book of Mormon informs us that it is through faith that people see God but that the heavens can be shut through a general lack of faith of the people.

My scriptural and historical reasoning for the conclusion that the heavens have been sealed involves countless references that are scattered throughout over 300 blog posts.

I totally understand if you don’t understand or agree with that conclusion and frankly, I don’t see any harm in people desiring to see and converse with God while the heavens are sealed as long as they are worshiping in conformity with scripture and their beliefs are founded in sound doctrine.

The second issue at play has to do with whether or not Denver Snuffer is a true prophet that we need to accept or be damned.

I believe you can discern a true or false prophet by the doctrine they teach.

Again, my reasoning for rejecting Snuffer and related documentation for my conclusions is dispersed through many posts that i don’t have the time to catalogue and explain in detail right now. ( I have been asked by a Snufferite to do a post and detail all of the false doctrines which I may do in a few months)

Suffice it to say, virtually every major doctrine he has introduced has been false.

We can begin with the false doctrine that made him popular and famous and generated a huge following for him.

Many years ago he taught that the LDS church was true and that any baptized member of the church can receive the “second comforter” by simply exercising faith.

He has greatly changed his narrative since then. Instead of encouraging people to get their second comforter he is now telling them they need to start all over and repent of their apostasy and get the true baptism and enter into a new covenant with God, etc.

The chronology of events and teachings association  with the Snuffer movement is one continuous contradiction.

I have shown that the fulness of the priesthood must be on the earth, that a person must first enter into the gate through the true water baptism followed by the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, and that a person must then receive the “first comforter” and prove that they will follow God at all costs.

Next, a person would need to receive their calling and election BEFORE Christ himself would ever visit and reveal the mysteries of the universe to someone.

The huge mistake that Snuffer made on that doctrine is in assuming that ALL visitations of Christ ( including Joseph Smith’s first vision) fall under the definition of the “Second Comforter” which is not true.

Christ does and has visited people before they received their calling and election and received their Second Comforter visits wherein the mysteries of the universe are revealed.

An example of that is in the case of Joseph Smith and the “first vision”. The First Vision that took place in about 1820 was not a “Second Comforter” visitation. Joseph did not even receive the “first comforter” ” until 1832. ( See D&C 88:3)

The other false doctrines taught by Snuffer are to numerous to list but they include stating in his book that no authority from God is necessary to perform a baptism… then he later decided that people needed to be endorsed by seven women to have priesthood authority to perform baptisms, etc. He teaches that the historicity of the event documented in Section 110 is questionable. If he was a true prophet he would authoritatively declare one way of the other whether it is true or not. ( he would declare that it is true) [editorial note: Snuffer has since received a revelation substantiating that section 110 did take place but changing the content thereof]

He teaches that celestial polygamy as taught in section 132 according to his interpretation, is a true doctrine

He teaches that Abraham’s patriarchal priesthood is a higher order of priesthood than the Melchizedek Priesthood.

He recently taught that his inspired version of the Testimony of John the Beloved (Gospel of John) is the fulfillment of the “record of john” that was to come forth according to section 93. The “record of John” in section 93 is actually referring to the record of John the Baptist.,

In his inspired version of St John he deleted at least three of the things that Joseph revealed in the Inspired Version of the Bible

I could go on and on but don’t have the time to list everything and elaborate.

These are just my opinions.

Obviously, if your inspired study of scripture and the history of the church reveals to you that Denver is the Lords true servant then of course you should heed his worlds.

I only share my opinions.. I have no desire to be anyone’s guide. The Holy Ghost should be your guide

Another Response in this Exchange

I am still studying out your view on the Godhead vs. what we’ve been taught our whole life. I know you touched on the Father and the Son being one, and I did read Lectures on Faith, 5th lecture, where it described the Father, and where it described Christ as the tabernacle. I am curious how D&C 130:22 ties into that:

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

Does this tie into what you are saying, they can each have their own body and be separate if they/HE/GOD wants? or can be one entity if HE wants? Or is the Father only Spirit with no body, and Christ is God in Tabernacle?
I think you know what I am asking hopefully. Wish I was more capable of being clear, but I will see what you respond with if you have a sec.

Thanks much,

My Reply

Section 130 has been proven false.

Under the direction of Brigham Young, Orson Pratt is the one that inserted section 130 into the Doctrine and Covenants, HOWEVER, if you research the whole content in the proper context, Joseph Smith was correcting Orson Hyde for teaching the false doctrine that the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

You can verify this by going to the Joseph Smith Papers Project and looking at the original

I have covered this in past posts, including this one

Here is a email from the searcher covering this topic:

P.S. You should check the comments section of my blog on King Follett. Josh left an amazing reference from the JS Papers which indicates that Joseph was actually correcting the false doctrine taught by Orson Hyde, namely that the Father has a body of flesh and bones that has since become D&C 130:22.

https://onewhoissearching.com/2016/05/06/king-follett-discourse-redefining-god-in-our-own-image/#comment-493

https://onewhoissearching.com/2016/05/06/king-follett-discourse-redefining-god-in-our-own-image/#comment-494

A great post on the background as to how we received D&C section 130 can be found here: http://latterdaywitnesses.com/you-ought-to-have-to-choose/
To quote directly from that post — “where did section 130 come from?”
Elder Orson Pratt and Elder Orson Hyde added it to the Doctrine and Covenants in 1876. It came from a series of talks that Orson Hyde gave in the presence of Joseph Smith in 1842. Some of the items that Orson Hyde spoke on were not accurate, such that it required a private correction by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith Papers, Journals, Volume 2 page 324, on April 2, 1842, Joseph recorded:
“Elder Hyde I am going to offer some corrections to you. Elder Hyde replied – they shall be thankfully received. – When he (Christ) shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he (Christ) is a man like ourselves. – (Parenthesis added).
This is consistent with the Lectures on Faith. The Son (Christ) is a man, a ‘tabernacle of clay’. Just like us. However, later on, Joseph records the following on page 326:
“There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven. Before the foundation of the world upon which all blessings are predicted and when we obtain a blessing it is by obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated. Again reverted to Elder Hyde’s mistake. &c the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. – and a person cannot have the personage . It may descend upon him but not to tarry with him.— (Bold and Italics added)
“So the clincher here, the way Joseph Wrote in his Journal is he elaborated on “Elder Hyde’s mistake”, by writing. “&c”. I had to look this up, but &c is another way to write Etc. Normally we would write this after the sentence. However, Joseph Used it before the sentence, in fact it starts the sentence, listing Elder Hyde’s mistake. What was Elder Hydes mistake? Amongst other things (&c): the Father having a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans the son also and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. I assert that Joseph was trying to lay out to Elder Hyde, that to know God, you must know correctly about God. Then preceded to correct his errors, which errors, he listed for us in his Journal.”
“In Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith Clearly states that God is a SPIRIT OF GLORY AND POWER, and further that the HOLY SPIRIT IS THE MIND OF GOD.”
Like

REPLY
joshsaid:October 4, 2016 at 10:01 am
the Joseph Smith Papers captures this incident with Joseph correcting Elder Hyde on the Godhead: http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/journal-december-1842-june-1844-book-2-10-march-1843-14-july-1843/50
Section 130:22 was one of the things at odds with those brethren on the committee that decided to remove the Lectures on Faith from the D&C in 1921 without a vote. They felt that the description Joseph gave of the Father in lecture on Faith chapter 5 (?) was at odds with what was in section 130:22, which apparently was added to the D&C sometime after Joseph and Hyrum were slain.
This is really awesome and really shows just how easy it is to inadvertently mistake notes from Joseph correcting Orson and how it literally can change the entire trajectory of belief of all of us!

Email Exchange #4
“..your lack of integrity and filtering comments is appalling”

Watcher-

I’ve given up on Adrian and his blog.

This was my last post after he sensored me again.

I can no longer take this blog nor its content creator seriously.

Adrian, your lack of integrity and filtering comments is appalling.

For someone who proclaims to “love the truth” your willingness to defend the Denver Snuffer from the accusations of being a false prophet to the point where you filter comments from your readers that challenge Denver has led me to believe that both you and he are not only deceived but maliciously trying to deceive others by not allowing the truth to be told.

Regardless of your fear of the scriptures exposing you, the truth will stand on its own.

My Reply

Frankly, it is difficult to take any of the growing number of Snufferites seriously who try to defend what Snuffer has taught, particularly the ones who claim to have received the Second Comforter, which includes continuous ongoing visitations of instruction into the mysteries by the Savior.

To the credit of Anonymous Bishop, he seems to allow at least some differing views on his blog- Here are some from a recent post that are notable-

http://anonymousbishop.com/2017/03/05/true-repentance/#comment-5723

http://anonymousbishop.com/2017/03/05/true-repentance/#comment-5752

http://anonymousbishop.com/2017/03/05/true-repentance/#comment-5762

http://anonymousbishop.com/2017/03/05/true-repentance/#comment-5735

http://anonymousbishop.com/2017/03/05/true-repentance/#comment-5755

http://anonymousbishop.com/2017/03/05/true-repentance/#comment-5741

http://anonymousbishop.com/2017/03/05/true-repentance/#comment-5744

http://anonymousbishop.com/2017/03/05/true-repentance/#comment-5774

[I realize that providing these links can increase readership to a blog that I think is dangerous and promotes a false prophet, but, people who read this blog are grown ups and should be able to discern truth from error]

Email Exchange # 5
“I appreciated you pointing out what the “new covenant” means in other scripture”

Watcher-

In a recent post you disagreed with Snuffers interpretation of D&C 84: and said that it is not referring to the Book of Mormon and revelations Joseph brought forth as being a literal covenant that the saints were to enter into.

I appreciated you pointing out what the “new covenant” means in other scripture, but could you please explain away the actual wording of those passages because I can see how they might appear to be stating what snuffer says they are saying.

My Response

I think a contextual reading of the passage in view of everything previouly said in scripture about the “new covenant” and the book of Mormon (which includes a detailed description of what the “new covenant” is), indicates that this is what was meant:

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant [by repenting and receiving the baptism of water, fire and the Holy Ghost], even [as it is contained in] the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

In the above passage I have provided clarity by making some insertions.

To verify the above interpretation one only needs to do a simple keyword search of the term “new covenant” to find that it is always referring to the covenant with Christ and never refers to the written word.

Exchange #6
“Of course, once you entertain the possibility of multiple mortalities,
other sacred cows are up for debate”

Watcher,

Back to the original topic, related to multiple mortalities.  For some reason, this concept has appealed to me since I took a world religions class 25 years ago.  Our culture seems to value “upward mobility”. There is something to be said for those who can find value in living well any class of life they are born to. Our drive for wealth and honor probably take us in the exact opposite direction of eternal salvation.  My concept of reincarnation involves living best the life I have, knowing my reward or punishment is coming in the next life.  I cannot imagine eternal punishment, but I can imagine being born into an abusive family as a consequence of abusing my children. Whether it is real or not, it helps me to treat others the way I would want if I were in their place. It also makes sense to me that we can’t possibly experience everything in one life.  Just look at how long Adam had to get things right!  If I incorporate Buddhist belief, when I finally learn to transcend the fallen man, to stop lusting for the chains of hell, I can get off the wheel.  (In that case, the path of Christ and spiritual rebirth is really the only viable way to do it because the spirit we die with is the same one we take with us to the next life.)  The Buddhist concept of bodhisattva is similar to what we have been talking about with the return of the servants.  These are people who obtained enlightenment and have earned the right to “get off the wheel” who choose to come back to mortality again to help others find the path also.  As far as I know, they don’t necessarily have power to do miracles, or remember who they were, they just have the ability to lead others by their example because they have already found the way themselves.

You talked about the justness of whether someone lives in a time of available light or only darkness.  It seems to me that God is content to let things go for the most part. letting people learn through experience, little by little.  Unfortunately, that usually leads to a time when they will be universally destroyed.  Then the window of light opens, the prophets warn of coming destruction and repentance. A few are saved, most are not.  If there really are only certain times when the opportunity to ascend is provided, then there must be other chances for people to learn and try again.  God intends to save as many as will hear his voice.  During the Millennium, those who didn’t make the spiritual mark won’t get a chance to mess it up for everyone else.  When they are finally allowed to return, the millenium ends with major warfare before the earth is burned.  Somehow we do believe that children who die young can be raised in the millenium, but we don’t believe in being born more than once.  I’m not really sure how that works. Nor does it seem fair that some people will live and die at a time when Satan is bound when so many others have been lost because they live in times of extreme spiritual darkness on the earth.

Of course, once you entertain the possibility of multiple mortalities, other sacred cows are up for debate, like the idea we just came to earth so we can have a body, and that our spirits look just like our physical bodies.  Appearances could be a matter of choice, like what clothes you choose to wear each day.  Joseph Smith taught spirits are composed of matter already, it is more refined.  So, we want to permanently trade refined purer bodies for the ones we have? I don’t know that is an upgrade. It could just be these bodies are our only means to experience opposition, which is the refiing fire that upgrades our spiritual bodies.  Or, the privilege to interact with matter as matter, rather than energy and light is the blessing we were wanting.

Multiple mortalities also calls into question our concept of eternal families as a permanent form of our earthly families.  What would be the point if you have had several family situations, and if we are all children of God anyway? I tend to think we were put in family groups before we came, and the test is to see which will not wipe themselves out before this term of earth’s probation is finished.  That is why Abraham was promised his seed would continue.  For me, the family provides a workshop to refine us.  We can practice on a small scale the skills needed to build Zion.  I don’t think the Lord ever intended for us to focus on the family to the exclusion of the rest of humanity.  The Nephite and Lamanite Zion started falling apart as soon as they brought back the labels.  One of the tricks we need to learn is to see and think of “others” as “family”. Even better would be to see Christ in everyone and act accordingly, but that is asking for a bigger leap of imagination.

I suppose there could be a point where a husband and wife are “sealed” in some manner, in the course of multiple lives, but the majority probably wouldn’t want to be.  It seems to me that we lure men into the idea by telling them that’s the only option other than eternal celibacy, and we tell the wives to hang in there because any husband who is celestialized will be worth keeping forever, no matter how flawed he seems now.  Besides, the alternative is to be a servant to other couples who took the forever marriage track.  I know you have talked about composite beings, but couldn’t it just as likely be that through marriage, each half develops the strengths of the other half, so you become two complete beings instead of just one at the end?

Well, that’s enough of my off the cuff ramblings.  As you can tell, I didn’t back up anything with scripture, and you probably won’t see any of this on any comment sections. It is helpful to me to try organizing it into some kind of sense instead of letting it roll around in my thoughts in random bits.  I would appreciate any other thoughts you have either is support or to refute it.  At this point, none of these beliefs are solid.  I’m kind of waiting for the record of Jared’s brother to straighten me out, since I doubt the church will change its polygamy  based family doctrine any time soon.

 

My Response

I once knew a fundamentalist fellow who quoted the scripture “how long can rolling waters remain impure?” and he opined that the scripture was referring to the fact that just as dirty water becomes pure over the process of time rolling over rocks, the imperfect and unclean soul also eventually becomes clean and prefect over the process of multiple probations. He felt that EVERYONE, even Satan would eventually become clean and pure.

At the time, I thought that was a beautiful way to explain and justify the doctrine of multiple probations.

Many years later I have come to the conclusion that his theory contradicts most of what the scriptures teach and denies the power and purpose of the atonement. Frankly, I don’t think it is a good way to describe the fulness of the Gospel that is described in the scriptures.

I think the warning in the Book of Mormon, that “today is the day of your salvation” to those who live when the fulness is on the earth is very literally and justified. There is a window of opportunity that needs to be taken.

I have come to the conclusion that there are three differing gospel laws and that the concept of multiple probations is not congruent with the highest one. Probably not with any of them, but definitely not with celestial law as described in scripture.

My sister was recently asked to speak at a women’s conference at BYU on the topic of the atonement. She was given 20 minutes for her talk LOL.

She asked for some suggestions pertaining to how the atonement interrelates to gospel law.

My brother and I referred her to section 88 and pointed out that it refers to three gospel laws, celestial, terrestrial, and telestial. Shortly after making reference to those three laws, that section specifically mentions Mercy, Justice & Judgment.

I speculated that those descriptives refer to and describe the three gospel different and distinct laws.

Much of the content in my “be ye therefore perfect” post is built around those concepts with emphasis on the celestial law aspect.

For me, the highest gospel law of Mercy and Grace represents a mystical process of becoming clean and perfect through God’s perfection, not our own works, and is not compatible with the multiple probations theory. Indeed, the essence of the fullness of the Gospel is in putting our faith in God’s righteousness to cleanse and transform us, instead of our own righteousness letter of the law works.

The concept of multiple probations makes a lot of sense to those that are focusing on the gospel of works and on becoming perfect through our own efforts, however, those that realize that it is through the mystical and merciful perfection of Christ and HIS righteousness that our fallen souls can be made perfect realize that multiple probations are not necessary and the doctrine marginalized Christ’s atonement.

I don’t think that it took Adam very long to get things right once the fulness of the gospel was preached to him because he relied on God’s perfection not his own works.

The works that saved him was his humble repentance and reception of the spiritual rebirth offered through Christ’s infinite sacrifice and atonement.

One of the most beautiful and revealing aspects of the gospel that was revealed through Joseph Smith is the account of Adam’s baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. No treadmill or gospel of self improvement, or multiple probations necessary for him.

I think the reason it feels like a long grueling process to us is because the church we grew up in lives and teaches terrestrial law. We have not experienced the true, full mystical baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost that is described in the scriptures.

We have not experienced the spiritual download of comprehending all things within a split second of God’s grace like Moses experienced.

We have been fed a constant diet of the Stephen Covey- Tony Robbins type of Positive Mental Attitude and gospel of self improvement where all of the emphasis is directed on our own hard works where  the glory is directed at the human spirit and the human effort to excel. We work and work and work to gain an inch of self mastery over a long and grueling process of time.

you said: “It seems to me that God is content to let things go for the most part. letting people learn through experience, little by little.”

I agree that it feels that way now because we are living during the dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham, not during the fulness. We are basically left with the letter of the law since the saints of the restoration rejected the spirit of the law and the fullness thereof

You feel that If there really are only certain times when the opportunity to ascend is provided, then there must be other chances for people to learn and try again.

I feel that way to.

But I don’t think multiple probations is the answer.

Multiple probations is fear based and works based and it does not give adequate credit to the mystical atonement and the mystical process of miraculously changing the natural man into a new creature through the power of the atonement instead of personal improvement.

The doctrine of multiple probations glorifies the natural mans ability to overcome adversity over time through the process of increasing in knowledge and hard work, instead of acknowledging that God’s supernatural power can instantly overcome adversity in a split second.

I suspect part of the answer is in all people physically returning to the earth during the final wrapping up scenes. Perhaps that is why the term “preparatory redemption” is used to refer even to those few people that appeared to be in a saved condition during this probation. It appears as if God’s work has not been completed and that there are still a few more surprises to be unfolded during the Marvelous Work and the dispensation of the fulness of times.

Perhaps God is going to provide a way for all of us that have come to this earth life to experience what everyone else in this earth existence has experienced during the last 6,000 years… by proxy with some kind of mystical download.

At any rate, i have come to the conclusion that the law of Mercy has more to do with submission to God’s will and putting off the natural man through the grace of Christ’s atonement, than personal improvement through hard work over the process of time.

Email Exchange #7

“One of the misconceptions among most of the LDS fringe groups is that God will one day FIX his broken apostate church”

Watcher-

One reason i enjoy reading your material is because you weave church history, especially early church history, into your scriptural analysis and interpretation.

I’ve learned things I’d never heard or considered before.  If I understand correctly, revelations from Joseph Smith had to be approved and recognized as such by the general body of the church before they became scriptural canon.

Did this practice continue after his death?

I believe BY still did it, albeit after the move west and only the more loyal faction of the saints were there to endorse it.

When did this practice end?

My Response

Your question presupposes that God continued giving revelation to the Brighamites to be canonized following the death of Joseph Smith.

It is my opinion that during the Nauvoo period, probably in 1841, the saints were rejected as a church with their dead.

God still acknowledges all of the remnants of the LDS restoration movement who believe the book of Mormon as remnants of his people, but following the rejection of the church with its dead, the fullness of the priesthood and the fullness of the saving ordinances had been removed out of their midst and God has hidden his face from the world.

One of the misconceptions among most of the LDS fringe groups is that God will one day FIX his broken apostate church (referring to the church organization that had been restored through Joseph Smith). Following that, the great work will continue to spring forth from the apostate church after it has been FIXED.

Many fundamentalists believe this.

I believe this is a lie that will cause many to stumble when the true servants return.

Bishop Koyle of Dream Mine fame falsely taught that Joseph Smith would one day return and make his appearance during an LDS general conference in which he would officially release all of the corrupt general authorities and institute men of God. In this manner Joseph Smith is to “set in order the house of God

After fixing the apostate church in said manner, the great work of restoration would continue from the fixed church .

I believe this false teaching comes from a misinterpretation of the following passage in Section 85

6 Yea, thus saith the still small voice, which whispereth through and pierceth all things, and often times it maketh my bones to quake while it maketh manifest, saying:

7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.

You will notice from the above passages that the one mighty and strong (see also Isaiah 28) sets in order those whose names are found enrolled in the book of the law of God.

There is not one person living today whose name is found enrolled in the book of the law of God. This is because the law of God was rejected by the latter day saints during Joseph’s ministry along with the priesthood keys to live the law of consecration which is an integral part of the law of God.

The latter day saints are not living the law of God. Most have no clue what the law of God is.

The first thing God’s mighty and strong servant will do when he and his associates return is to restore the law of God upon the earth and invite everyone to repent and gather to Zion.

This will not be done through the apostate church although there may be some of the elect who will repent and gather out of the apostate church to accept and live the law of God when it is restored to the earth.

Prior to being rejected as a church in 1841, the restored church had been condemned in 1834, meaning that they had been censured, relieved of their priesthood keys, and sentenced to the punishment of being delivered over to Satan for a little season.

There is a big difference between being CONDEMNED vs. being REJECTED.

From the 1828 Websters the following words are defined thusly:

condemned

CONDEMNED, pp. Censures; pronounced to be wrong, guilty, worthless or forfeited; adjudged or sentenced to punishment.

CONDEMNATION, n.

1. The act of condemning; the judicial act of declaring one guilty, and dooming him to punishment.
For the judgment was by one to condemnation. Romans 5.
2. The state of being condemned.
Dost thou not fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation. Luke 23.
3. The cause or reason of a sentence of condemnation. John 3.
rejected

REJECT’ED, pp. Thrown away; cast off; refused; slighted.

Just as God cast ancient Israel out of his sight anciently, he has cast off the apostate latter day saints and turned his face from them and he has given them their delusions.

Everyone who is claiming that the church is still relevant in providing the saving ordinances or that it will once again provide the saving ordinances, is delusional. Those claiming that all of the spiritual gifts are still available including calling and election and the reception of the second comforter are delusional and deceived.

 

 

Notable Emails #32: “during the Messianic years, John the Baptist turned the hearts of the prophets to the Jews– but… he never turned the hearts of the Jews to the prophets!”

???

Notable Emails # 30 “I have to disagree to the credit you give to the LDS Church and saving ordinances. I do not see any saving ordinances, temple rites, secret signs or tokens as of any value.”

Notable Emails #29 “I enjoyed your post on Joseph Smith as the ‘Covenant Servant’ in Isaiah 42.. however..”

Notable Emails #28- “Why do we need prophets and apostles when they refer us to scholars for doctrine and church history understanding”Notable Emails #27 “what makes you so sure JS was not just a charlatan from the beginning?”

Noteable Emails #26 This and that, this and that, tell us how it is Hugh, we won’t look back!

Noteable Emails #25 “Can I ask you for some help with chapter 27 in 2 Nephi?”

Notable Emails #24 “I recently awoke or at least have begun to awaken. Since August I’m no longer blindly following the brethren and traditions of the church.”

Notable Emails #22 “My prediction is that those who accept the gospel of Bill Reel (non-literal historicity of the Book of Mormon) will ultimately either loose all of their faith…”

Notable Emails #21 ” I don’t believe the current LDS Church has ANY “authority” – especially BECAUSE they preach that the culmination of the Gospel is the Masonic Rituals..”

Notable Emails #19- “Sometime ago I had an extraordinary experience where I was forgiven of some of my sins”

 Notable Emails #18- “I wake up every morning with this intense feeling that we are getting closer”

 Notable Emails #17 “Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.”

 Notable Emails #16 “the Lord wouldn’t give a young church such responsibility so early”

Notable Emails #15: “It would be so hard to do if we didn’t have the word crunching software available to us to use. Now I can see why so many are deceived. “

 Notable Emails #14 (b) “who was the legal heir and successor of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr.?”

 Notable Emails #14 (a) “Baptism for the dead is illogical and pretty much impossible to ever accomplish”

 Notable Emails Part 13 “Gileadi compares the Servant to Hezekiah, in that he answered for the temporal sins of the people and acted as a proxy savior”

 Notable Emails Part 12 “the scriptures will become corrupted and deceive the elect and give Satan power”

 Notable Emails Part 9 “My number one desire right now is to protect my wife and honor her tender feelings about the gospel as she understands it.”

 Notable Emails Part 8 “Who are the Jews and Gentiles?

Notable Emails Part 7 “My eyes have been opened”

Notable Emails Part 6: “Can anyone tell me anything about this blog?… This guy seems to have some new ideas I’ve never heard before using the scriptures to back his views.

Notable Emails Part 5: “the truths that both you and I hold so dear …are things that cannot be taught they can only be revealed.”

Notable Emails- Part 4 “I have now caught the spirit of watching along with you and others.”

Notable Emails- Part 3 “Have you ever read ‘Letter to a CES Director?’” Yes… and it has strengthened my testimony!

Notable Emails- Part 2: “Readers deserve to know if you truly are a heretic or just a faithful divergent thinker”

Notable Emails Part 1- Mormon Missionary: “I too am watching”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Essential Oldies but Goodies Part Six: The Law of Adoption and the Sealing Principles

September 19, 2017

Today’s Oldy but Goodie was inspired by the following email exchange that I had with a reader of my blog.

Watcher,

I was reading this verse this evening and a very interesting part of it popped out at me.

18 I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands. It is sufficient to know, in this case, that the earth will be smitten with a curse unless there is a welding link of some kind or other between the fathers and the children, upon some subject or other—and behold what is that subject? It is the baptism for the dead. For

It is the baptism for the dead. For we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect. Neither can they nor we be made perfect without those who have died in the gospel also; for it is necessary in the ushering in of the dispensation of the fulness of times, which dispensation is now beginning to usher in, that a whole and complete and perfect union, and welding together of dispensations, and keys, and powers, and glories should take place, and be revealed from the days of Adam even to the present time. And not only this, but those things which never have been revealed from the foundation of the world, but have been kept

And not only this, but those things which never have been revealed from the foundation of the world, but have been kept hid from the wise and prudent, shall be revealed unto babes and sucklings in this, the dispensation of the fulness of times.

There are three groups being talked about here.

They – our departed ancestors

We – us of course

Those who died in the gospel – who?

My Response

The interesting thing about the above passage of scripture that was taken from a letter Joseph wrote from the Nauvoo era, is that it is based on the foundational passage in Hebrews 11:40. Joseph completely changes the meaning of Hebrews 11:40 in the Inspired Version. go figure!

JST Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better things for them through their sufferings, for without sufferings they could not be made perfect.

KJV Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

One of the very few disagreements that I have with the JST is that it alters and deletes part of the original narrative in the above passage because the original narrative rings true to me.

Not only did Joseph Smith paraphrase the missing part of the JST passage in section 128, he also quoted it in several discourses.

My guess is that Joseph and Sidney, when making their inspired changes in the NT, meant to add the truth about the fact that that our ancient fathers needed to experience sufferings, but did not intend to delete the revelatory aspect of the passage that states that the patriarchal fathers cannot be saved without their posterity and vice versa.

I agree with the addition that was made but I do not agree with the deletion that was made.

Our patriarchal fathers cannot be saved without their repentant offspring and we cannot be saved without our patriarchal fathers.

I believe it was understood and agreed to in the pre-existence that the fathers who came during OT times could not be saved without their posterity that was to come in the end times. The gospel of Jesus Christ is an all or nothing proposition, it either saves the entire family of God or none of them…. everyone must have the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel and be united in the welding link provided by the gospel. In order for us to be saved, the gospel keys from the Fathers had to be restored to us from them. In order for them to ultimately be saved, we need to use those gospel keys to redeem Zion so that Zion from below can meet Zion from above.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is an all or nothing proposition, it either saves the entire repentant family of God or none of them…. everyone must have the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel and be united in the welding link provided by the gospel. In order for us to be saved, the gospel keys from the fathers need to be passed down to the children and we need to gather the rest of the family and redeem Zion with them.

The difficult thing about the Nauvoo era is that even though Joseph began teaching some heretical doctrines during that period, he also had some revelatory lucid moments as well. Hence the need for personal revelatory discernment and a holistic view of the scriptures when listening to prophets teach doctrine. It is always the Holy Ghost that must direct us in our learning, not the prophet who claims to be acting as the Lord’s

It is always the Holy Ghost that must direct us in our learning, not the prophet who has the commission to be acting as the Lord’s mouthpiece.

One of the most insidious beliefs of modern Mormonism is that a prophet is always a prophet and cannot ever teach a false doctrine…. This is because a prophet can fall and teach false doctrine, or in the case of Joseph Smith, he can temporarily have his eyes covered as a result of his intercessory offering. God uses true prophets to test the saints. to see if they will follow the discernment given by the Holy Ghost and believe his holy word in scripture or the word of a mortal.

In my opinion, the above passage in Hebrews 11:40 is true just as it stands in the KJV, but it is not referring to the corrupt practices that took place in Nauvoo of sealing men to men and other peoples wives to certain men.

It is simply referring to the fact that the gospel of Christ gathers the BODY of CHRIST back into one big family and makes them all equal and binds them together through the gospel covenant of Baptism, and consecration, ( consecration is simply an extension of the baptismal covenant.)… the saints are ONE in Christ. That is the welding link of the gospel.

Hebrews 11:40 and the above passage introduce the concept of “group salvation” and the fact that everybody must be united together through the sealing powers of the gospel.

In addition to the above passage, Section 110 also testifies of the veracity of Hebrews 11:40. It not only reiterates the revelatory narrative being presented in Hebrews 11:40, it is a partial fulfillment of it. Our FATHERS Abraham, Moses and Elijah returned from the dead as ministering angels to restore certain keys pertaining to the gospel so that in the latter days their posterity can have the knowledge of the gospel and be gathered into the gospel net and eventually be reunited with their ancient fathers.

14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—

15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—

16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

The second part of the fulfillment of the above passage will take place when Joseph and his associates return to restore the missing keys of the gospel and saving ordinances that we need to have in order to be saved. At that time the remainder will be gathered and Zion from below will be prepared to meet Zion from above.

In my opinion, the breakdown you asked about is is as follows

They – Our patriarchal fathers who hold gospel keys from previous dispensations

We – us of course

Those who died in the gospel – Everyone from Old Testament and New Testament and Book of Mormon eras who had accepted the gospel and been valiant in it, as well as any others who still accept the gospel.

 

The $64 dollar question he asks in a follow-up email is as follows

It never dawned on me that the sealing as we know it today was never a part of this welding link, only baptisms for the dead. Where and when did that become an LDS doctrine?

The question he asked was addressed in the following post that I wrote in 2009-

The Law of Adoption and the Sealing Principles

Enjoy

BTW for those that prefer listening, here is the youtube version by Mrs W.

Previous Oldies but Goodies

COMMANDMENTS-DOCTRINE-COVENANTS Part One

COMMANDMENTS-DOCTRINE-COVENANTS Part Two

Discovering the Doctored Covenants and then the Interpretive Revisions and then the changing of the Ordinance    Part Five

Seven Seals and a Paradisaical Millennium” Part Four

A Mystical Look at the LDS Restoration Movement Part Three

Be Ye Therefore Perfect.. right now Part Two

The Succession Crisis Part One


Chuck Missler and John the Revelator are Mystics?

August 28, 2017

Some 30+ years ago I wrote a paper titled “A Mystical Look at the LDS Restoration Movement“.

It used keyword searching technology to unlock some hidden information in scripture that addresses the topic of where the real Jerusalem of end times prophecy is really located.

It also showed mathematically through the use of a numerical sequence that the Kirtland Temple and related events had been prophesied of anciently by the prophet Daniel. Several years later I would write a little more blatantly about who the real latter day Jews really are.

In essence, it showed that the LDS restoration movement was fulfilling many of the prophecies of the ancient prophets like Isaiah and Daniel:

 

I realized when I presented the first article that the information I was proffering would be diametrically opposed to the indoctrination that all Christians, including Mormons, as well as Protestants and Catholics had previously been taught.

This problem was further complicated by the fact that at the time I wrote the paper, it contradicted the teachings of an LDS Hebrew scholar who had gained a great deal of popularity from his books and lectures on Isaiah.

Even though much of what he was teaching was very inspired, including the fact that the Marvelous Work and a Wonder was a future event, his basic premise about who the Jews were and where the Jerusalem of end times prophecy is located, was completely wrong.

He implies that he can understand the words of Isaiah better than us Gentile Ephraimites because he has studied Hebrew and he understands how Jews think.

Sadly, he continues to this very day to teach the same false prophetic story-line about where the latter day Jerusalem is and the associated prophetic events. By doing so, he pretty much negates the truth points he brings out by directing peoples attention to a false paradigm.

Certainly we can learn from the Jews. This link is to a wonderful article written by Dr. James Tripp showing the four levels of meaning in scripture. It substantiates the belief that there are multiple layers of meaning in scripture.

But those of Ephraim should not discount their own spiritual gifts pertaining to understanding scripture and doctrine in favor of those that claim to be proficient in the learning of the Jews!

One passage of scripture that has been greatly misunderstood is in 2nd Nephi 25 which begins with the following passage

Now I, Nephi, do speak somewhat concerning the words which I have written, which have been spoken by the mouth of Isaiah. For behold, Isaiah spake many things which were hard for many of my people to understand; for they know not concerning the manner of prophesying among the Jews.

That passage by itself could be interpreted to indicate that one needs to have an academic understanding of the manner of prophesying of the Jews in order to understand the words of Isaiah.

NOT TRUE!

It is not referring to the importance of the learning and traditions of the Jews and how they think. It is simply speaking about the prophesying of true prophets that took place AMONG the Jews. Nevertheless, the Jews had darkened minds.

If one continues to read the narrative, one gets a broader context of the point that Nephi really is making.

Nephi continues in the next passage to observe that the works of the Jews were in the darkness which is why he opted to not teach his children many things concerning the manner of the Jews.

For I, Nephi, have not taught them many things concerning the manner of the Jews; for their works were works of darkness, and their doings were doings of abominations.

He then makes an observation which explains why so many of the House of Israel that have been gathered into the church in these latter days have difficulty understanding the words of Isaiah and why they can only begin to believe in Christ

Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you..

The words of Isaiah are not Plain unto the remnants of the House of Israel that began converting to the church and gathering to America during the Nauvoo period!!!

I have shown in previous posts that the knowledge of the gospel was taken from the restored gentile church and taken to the House of Israel after the gentiles rejected the gospel in about 1834. Remnants of the House of Israel began converting and coming to Nauvoo and then Utah from across the great waters.

Nephi informs us that the words of Isaiah are not plain to those of the House of Israel. This is in part why the Latter day Saint (Jews) struggle with understanding the words of Isaiah!

Ok then, what is the bottom-line to understanding the words of Isaiah (and the gospel of Jesus Christ for that matter)?

Here is the continuation of the above passage

… nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy.

Bingo.

The ultimate key to understanding Isaiah is not to study how the Jews think or prophesy. It is not from studying the words of Hebrew scholars who have been educated by the universities of Babylon and who don’t even  know where the Jeruslaem of end times prophecy is located or who the real Jews are.

The key that the scriptures and Joseph Smith taught, is personal revelation that comes while searching the holy word of God. It is the spirit of prophecy.

If you are one who receives personal revelation you can understand the words of Isaiah and also the fulness of the Gospel.

Following the above passage, Nephi then provides a commentary on the words of Isaiah in PLAINNESS not based on his learning of how the Jews prophesy, but rather on speaking while inspired by the spirit of Prophecy which was a spiritual gift that he had in him from the time he left Jerusalem!

But I give unto you a prophecy, according to the spirit which is in me; wherefore I shall prophesy according to the plainness which hath been with me from the time that I came out from Jerusalem with my father; for behold, my soul delighteth in plainness unto my people, that they may learn.

Those that have compared the spiritual gifts of the House of Israel to those of the newly converted gentiles of the restoration movement realize that the Gentile Ephraimites who convert to Christ have spiritual gifts pertaining to understanding things that are not given to the House of Israel.

That is why the Jews that began coming into the church during the Nauvoo period could only begin to believe in Christ and were not even preached to until after the fulness was taken from the church.

Unlike the remnants of the House of Israel, the believing Gentiles, once they have repented, have been given the spiritual gifts of the Holy Ghost of understanding the differences of administration and the diversities of operations and the discerning of spirits..

 

gentile spiritual gifts

The listings of spiritual gifts above represent a comparison between the gifts of the spirit given to the House of Israel as contained in Moroni 10, and the gifts of the spirit given to the believing Gentiles in Section 46

The above comparison explains why so many Mormons and Mormon fringe groups have become obsessed exclusively with the simple gospel narrative in the Book of Mormon while virtually excluding the much more detailed explanation of priesthood and priesthood offices and principles of church organization and church administration that are contained in the Doctrine and Covenants.

This is why those remnant fringe groups often quote the following passage but on focus on the Book of Mormon part of it.

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

Those FORMER COMMANDMENTS were canonized in the BOOK OF COMMANDMENTS. shortly thereafter and eventually most of those revelations were canonized once again into the DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS. 

An yet, the latter day Jews who call themselves the remnant have a huge bias and blind spot when it comes to the revelations that came through Joseph Smith.

Anytime it appears to them as if the revelations through Joseph Smith conflict with the Book of Mormon, they readily discard the revelations that came through God’s servant.

This is why the Snufferites have rejected Section 20 and have focused on Book of Mormon protocol and their own logic in creating their own articles and covenants pertaining to church administration.

Paradigm Changes to Not Come Easily

I knew that the information I was presenting in the article about the true location of the latter day Jerusalem that Isaiah speaks about would not be easily accepted by Mormons.

In an effort to prepare the hearts and minds of my readers for the paradigm shift they were about to experience, I began the article with my favorite definition of the word mystical:

mys·ti·cal having a spiritual meaning or reality that is neither apparent
to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence

Another great definition is found in the 1828 Websters:

MYS’TICAL, a. [L.mysticus.] Obscure; hid; secret. [.] 1. Sacredly obscure or secret; remote from human comprehension. [.] [.] God hath revealed a way mystical and supernatural. [.] 2. Involving some secret meaning; allegorical; emblematical

I began the paper with the first definition above because I realized that what I was about to present to my readers who were prophecy buffs was going to challenge parvery fiber of their being.

It would contradict many years of indoctrination that apostate Christianity had taught them.

They would have to unlearn virtually everything they had been taught about the events of the end times.

I wanted my readers to realize that the scriptures contain hidden treasures of knowledge that are not apparent from a cursory reading of God’s holy word.

Many years after writing the article I was invited to submit a post on the LDSAnarchy website. Realizing that the readership of that blog was use to thinking outside of the box, I posted that particular article, hoping that the information would fall upon fertile soil.

This is what the first commenter had to say after reading the article:

Hm, talk about a paradigm shift. You make an interesting argument, if it is true, it is back to the drawing board for most of my preconceived notions on end time events. I have enjoyed your blog and was surprised to see you post a topic here, but am glad you did. I enjoy your insights.

Chuck Missler is a Mystic

I have mentioned several times on this blog that I admire and appreciate Church Missler as a scriptural scholar. Although he will continue to have blind spots until he accepts the Book of Mormon and the commission of Joseph Smith, he is incredibly inspired in his studies of the Bible.

I noticed the other day while watching one of his youtubes that he referred to himself as a “mystic”.

This was interesting to me because several years ago I began considering myself and others who search the scriptures deeply for the hidden things to be mystics.

I found it interesting that he and I both found that term to be applicable to those who believe that the deeper truths contained in the scriptures are hidden and needed to be prayerfully searched for. They are not plainly manifest on the surface.

Missler also refers to John the Revelator as a mystic.

The following youtubes by Missler contain a wonderful summary of the distinction between the writers of the four gospels, showing how they each had a distinct contextual point of view and been prepared by God to provide the narrative of the Gospel that they each provided.

If you spend a few minutes listening to Chuck Missler you will get 1000% more light and knowledge and understanding about Christ and his gospel than you will by listening to any general conference put on by the LDS church.

 

The Scriptures are like an Onion

Students of the scriptures and the gospel would do well to realize that the scriptures are like an onion, having layers of meaning which cannot be mined through a cursory reading.

Cleansed by the Word

Another thing students of the Gospel need to realize about the holy and ineffable word of God in scripture is that it actually has the mystical ability to cleanse a person.

One of my favorite passages from the mystical gospel of John quotes Jesus as saying that the word of God can and does clean the hearer who comprehends and believes it.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 

**Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.** 

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Imagine that. The spoken word of truth from Christ can actually cleanse a person. Clearly those spoken words of Christ in written form have the same effect on those that believe them when read by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps this is why the following protocol provided in Section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants reveals that a person can receive the Spirit of Christ and a remission of their sins BEFORE baptism.

37 And again, by way of commandment to the church concerning the manner of baptism—All those who humblethemselves before God, and desire to be baptized, and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins, and are willing to take upon them the nameof Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church.

Some have concluded that the above passage is inconsistent with Book of Mormon and New Testament protocols which indicate that a person cannot become clean until after baptism. However our gospel dispensation and circumstances  are different from some of the others in the past.

The New Testament Saints only had the Old Testament as their guide with regard to trying to understand the prophetic contemporary events taking place around them.

The same if true of Lehi and his family.

The saints of the LDS restoration movement were bombarded with new scripture.

By the time section 20 was given, the Book of Mormon had been published and the Inspired Version was in process and the revelations in the D&C were on their way followed by the Book of Abraham.

God was giving us his word out of a fire hydrant.

No other generation we are aware of has had so much of God’s word to study and search.

After the gentiles rejected the fulness of the gospel and the KNOWLEDGE of the Gospel was taken to the House of Israel, God told the church that they must wait for a little season of learning and chastisement before they could once again attempt to live the laws of Zion.

A Little Season of LEARNING

We are in the unique position of having had a huge amount of God’s word to study and we have been commanded to study it and learn from it.

At the end of about four generations the keys of the kingdom and the fulness of the Gospel is to be returned to the earth with those having the commission to gather the elect to Zion.

Section 1, 29 and 101 & 103 mention very specifically who the servants are that will gather the elect to Zion. They testify that Joseph Smith and his brethren of the restoration have that commission and will return to complete it.

Our generation is responsible to study and search and ponder God’s word until the appointed time when the servants return.

This is because the holy word of God can cleanse us and prepare us for the true baptism of water, fire and the Holy Ghost that will be restored to the earth at the appointed time.

During the last few years I have pointed out several falsehoods that have been taught by an emerging false prophet who has authored historical content and scriptural interpretations largely high-jacked from  other authors and bloggers.

Very little of what he has said in his talks and books have come by way of his own personal revelation while reading the scriptures and studying the history of the church.

I have had several of his followers contact me and tell me they agree with what I have said as I have pointed out errors in his writings and claims. They can see the inconsistencies in his teachings and the scriptures. They can discern the false doctrine that he teaches. And yet they have chosen to follow him and discount my warning voice because he claims to talk directly face to face with God, while I do not make that claim.

In their minds, he is on a higher level of spiritual understanding than me because of his claim that he speaks face to face with God, despite the fact that he misinterprets so many historical events, scriptures and gospel principles. Because of his blindness and the visitation of a false Christ, he and his followers are currently in the process of transfiguring the holy word of God and entering into a covenant with death.

What they don’t seem to realize is that a person needs to be cleansed by the word of God BEFORE God would ever grant them a face to face audience. You can tell if someone who claims to have a commission from God is a true prophet, or a deceiver or a fallen prophet, or an atonement intercession prophet, by the doctrine he teaches.

Those that don’t first cultivate a relationship with God through an inspired understanding of his written word, and become cleansed by it,  through the spirit of personal revelation will never be permitted to enter into God’s presence to be taught the mysteries.

They can only be visited and deceived by false Christs. Furthermore, one would not continue to teach so many falsehoods and to deny and transfigure existing revelations in the D&C AFTER being taught by God face to face.

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the true Gospel of Jesus Christ is a mystical religion and only those that become mystics and learn through the spirit of personal revelation can comprehend and prepare themselves to truly repent and conform to the full law of the gospel once the appointed time arrives.

 

 

 

 


Those Among the Gentiles Go To Zion. Those Among Judah Go To Jer-USA-lem.

August 24, 2017

In previous posts about the final gathering I have pointed that there will be two separate and distinct gatherings of God’s people. Both take place in America.

It is important to understand this prophetic topic because it is about to unfold. Indeed, the preliminary spiritual and philosophical division is taking place right now.

One of the most succinct scriptural narratives that speaks of this dual gathering is found in Section 133.

Section 133 was given to the saints of the restored church while the fulness of the gospel was on the earth on November 3, 1831.

It was given in the middle of the 3 1/2 year revelatory sweet spot that Joseph Smith enjoyed from June 5th 1831 when the Melchizedek Priesthood was restored for the first time during Joseph’s ministry, until  December 5th 1834 when the Lord pronounced the members and leaders of the church to be under condemnation.

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Section 133 was first added to the Doctrine and Covenants as the appendix by way of commandment from the Lord. The condemned modern church has since departed from the commandment to keep it as the appendix. They have corrupted the canon of scripture by removing the Lectures on Faith and other inspired revelations and by adding some uninspired revelations. They have also failed to maintain section 133 as the appendix.

Section 133 begins by addressing the saints of the restored church in Kirtland:

1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, saith the Lord your God, and hear the word of the Lord concerning you—

2 The Lord who shall suddenly come to his temple; the Lord who shall come down upon the world with a curse to judgment; yea, upon all the nations that forget God, and upon all the ungodly among you.

The Blessing and the Cursing

Notice the prophecy about that Lord coming to his temple with a curse to judgment.

That prophecy was fulfilled when Christ and three ministering angels visited Joseph an Oliver a years later in the Kirtland Temple.

During this visitation a blessing and a cursing was placed upon the gentile nations that have departed from the Lord, including the ungodly among the restored church.

Section 110 informs us of blessings that took place relative to the appearance of Christ and three angelic messengers. In addition to the blessing, Elijah the Prophet appeared to Joseph and Oliver and informed them that he had come to the earth prior to the great and dreadful day of the Lord as prophesied by Malachi.

The revelation directs us to the other prophecies in Malachi that speak of the cursing. Notice how Malachi informs us that the cursing is related to the act of changing the saving ordinances and the law of tithing (consecration):

7 ¶ Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8 ¶ Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

The Lord will Make Bare His Arm

In the above prophecy, “Mine ordinances” appears to refer to the saving ordinances of the gospel in the latter days which includes the three fold baptism. The next passage in section 133 prophesies of an upcoming event that begins the third watch (dispensation) when the Lord will make bare his arm in the eyes of all nations.

For he shall make bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of their God.

The term “holy arm” of the Lord refers to God anointed servant that will be returning to complete his missioin.

The following verse begins with “wherefore” which actually implies a continuation of the third watch prophecy being spoken of in verse 3 above. It provides a brief outline of how the final gathering will take place in the third watch:

4 Wherefore, prepare ye, prepare ye, O my people; sanctify yourselves; gather ye together, O ye people of my church, upon the land of Zion, all you that have not been commanded to tarry.

5 Go ye out from Babylon. Be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord.

6 Call your solemn assemblies, and speak often one to another. And let every man call upon the name of the Lord.

7 Yea, verily I say unto you again, the time has come when the voice of the Lord is unto you: Go ye out of Babylon; gather ye out from among the nations, from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The saints of the restored church assumed this commandment to gather was referring to their current situation and it certainly was applicable since God was in the process of gathering his saints out of Babylon at the time. However, the literal fulfillment of the above commandment/prophecy had reference to a future time, referred to in scriptures as the third watch.

All of the Tribes of Israel will Gather to the Promised Land of America

The passages above speak of a worldwide gathering of believers to the land of America that takes place when the final restoration and marvelous work referred to by Isaiah begins to take place. America is the land of the Abrahamic Covenant in the last days. That is why ALL of the tribes of Israel will gather here.

At that time, the first laborers of the last kingdom will emerge to fulfill their commission of gathering the elect from the four corners of the earth.

Interestingly, most LDS prophecy scholars believe that the times of the gentiles is about to come to an end and then the Gospel will go to the Jews.

This is not correct.

The times of the Gentiles that began with the New Testament apostles came to its fulness during the ministry of Joseph Smith between 1831 and 1834. At that time the fulness of the gospel was collectively rejected by the Gentile saints of the restored church.

After that the saints petitioned the Lord in the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland Temple to begin to redeem Jerusalem from that very hour and return the children of Judah to the lands of their inheritance in America.

One week later the dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham was secretly ushered in as documented in Section 110.

Shortly thereafter the revelation commissioning the Twelve Apostles to take the knowledge of the gospel to the house of Israel which Joseph Smith identified as the “outcasts of Israel” and the “dispersed of  Judah” was given in section 118.

Since that time, remnants of Judah and other tribes have been gathering into the modern church.

The words of Christ to his New Testament saints as recorded in Section 45 validates the above scenario.

It informs us that the Jews that scattered after rejecting Christ during the meridian of time, were to remain in a scattered condition until the times of the gentiles were fulfilled.

That fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles took place during Joseph Smith’s ministry. (D&C 45:24-25) following that, the House of Israel (Jews ) have begun to believe in Christ and to gather into the church.

However the narrative in section 45 goes on to reveal that the times of the gentiles will come in AGAIN after the signs of the coming of the Lord begin to manifest themselves with wars and rumors of wars great commotions in the earth!

From this and other passages of scriptures we learn that the times of the Gentiles are about to come in again.

After the signs appear, a LIGHT shall break forth.

“And when the times of the Gentiles is come in [AGAIN] a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel.”

That is what is about to happen right now!

The times of the gentiles is about to come in again!

The light of the Marvelous Work is about to shine forth!

The fulness of the gospel is about to return to the earth!

Section 133 informs us that when the final restoration and gathering takes place, the third watch begins by calling upon the gentiles first, and then upon the Jews:

8 Send forth the elders of my church unto the nations which are afar off; unto the islands of the sea; send forth unto foreign lands; call upon all nations, first upon the Gentiles, and then upon the Jews.

9 And behold, and lo, this shall be their cry, and the voice of the Lord unto all people: Go ye forth unto the land of Zion, that the borders of my people may be enlarged, and that her stakes may be strengthened, and that Zion may go forth unto the regions round about.

10 Yea, let the cry go forth among all people: Awake and arise and go forth to meet the Bridegroom; behold and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Prepare yourselves for the great day of the Lord.

11 Watch, therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour.

First the elders call upon the Gentiles and then upon the Jews. Both are called upon to gather and prepare for the great day of the Lord.

Again, it is important to understand that everyone from all the tribes of Israel are first gathered to America, the land of the Abrahamic Land Covenant.

The passages above provide a great key to understanding the underlying tribal division between those among the gentiles and those among Judah.

Both groups believe in the Book of Mormon and the LDS restoration movement.

The prophetic narrative in section 133 reiterates once again that there will be two divisions among believers of the LDS restoration. These two groups will gather to two separate and distinct geographical places within the promised land of America.

12 Let them, therefore, who are among the Gentiles flee unto Zion.

13 And let them who be of Judah flee unto Jerusalem, unto the mountains of the Lord’s house.

14 Go ye out from among the nations, even from Babylon, from the midst of wickedness, which is spiritual Babylon.

As you can see, the chronology pertaining to the gathering of the believing Gentile and the partially believing Latter day Saint (Jew) is reiterated once again.

First, those who are among the Gentiles will flee to Zion.

That is the first harvest.

Following that, those who are of Judah, will flee to Jerusalem and the mountains of the Lord’s house. (terms having to do with the Jerusalem in America, not the Old World. Joseph Smith identified the Kirtland area as the latter day Jerusalem)

Signs that Reveal the Coming of the Lord

Section 45 informs us that there will be signs in the heavens above and in the earth below at the time of the gathering just before the return of the Lord.

Interestingly, there was an eclipse tat took place on August 21st of this year that many Christians and Mormons believe to be one of the signs of the end times.

Seven years later a second eclipses will take place in April of 2024

The trajectory of the first eclipse goes directly over Independence Missouri (Zion).

 

eclypse independence 2017.png

The trajectory of the second eclipse that takes place seven years later goes directly over Kirtland Ohio (Jerusalem).

eclypse kirtland 2024.png

It is my belief that it is not coincidental that these two signs in the heavens cross over two of the most prominent places having to do with the LDS restoration movement. In fact, they may identify the location and chronology of the two harvests that will take place in America.

X Marks the Spot

The the intersection of these two trajectories may well represent the “sign of the cross” which some apocryphal accounts associate with the sign of the coming of the Son of man.

Furthermore, the fact that the general geographical location of the intersection is over the area of the LDS restoration movement appears to be an ominous sign to the world that the LDS restoration and coming forth of the Book of Mormon and ministry of Joseph Smith was a divine work. Most prophecy scholars believe these two eclipses represent a pending judgment over the nation of America.

The exact place of the intersection brings to light the fact that even though modern revelation identifies Missouri as the land of Zion, and identifies the “center place” and the “place of the temple“, their may be other prominent places in the land of Zioin that have never specifically revealed in scripture.

It may be that the Lord never identified the exact location of a significant end times location that was not identified during Joseph Smith’s ministry. This may be because the Lord knew the saints would reject the fulness and be unsuccessful at that time in gathering.

 

eclypse cris cross

If you zoom into the area that is marked by the cross, you will see several cities that are not apparent as places of significance during Joseph Smith’s ministry and the attempted gathering to the land of Zion.

One of them for instance is an obscure place called “Jackson City, Missouri“, not to be confused with “Jackson County, Missouri“.

It had a population of a few hundred people during the time of Joseph Smith’s revelatory sweet spot when the fulness was briefly on the earth. It was the first city to be named after President Jackson.

One of my readers has pointed out that another place very close to the center point of the X is located by Jerusalem Road in Jackson County, Illinois in the unincorporated area of Pomona.

I make brief mention of this because the scriptures identify the general land of Zion and the Center place and the site of the future temple, but there may be other prominent cities in Zion to be built in the future that have not been revealed.

The exact center of the X could be identifying an important place in the future.

Nevertheless the main point is that there are to be two gatherings and associated harvests in America and the two eclipes may be identify the gathering places. One group of believers is of Ephraim and they are classified among the gentiles. The other group is of Judah. Many of them have been greatly deceived about their true tribal identity and they think they have been given the birthright of Joseph and Ephraim.

It is my belief that one cannot comprehend the mystical meaning of the above prophecy unless one has an understanding of the secret history of Mormonism and who the real Jews are and where the real JerUSAlem of end times prophecy is.

One needs to understand how the gentiles rejected the fulness of the gospel in Kirtland followed by the promulgation  of the knowledge of the fulness of the gospel to the dispersed of Judah and the outcasts of Israel (as documented in sections 109, 110, 112 and 118).

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It is through the second wave of missionary work to those of the House of Israel located across the great waters that those of Judah began to be gathered to America and into the condemned church during the Nauvoo and Utah eras.

One can only understand the prophetic narrative in the passages above by understanding that the modern corporate church that calls themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, contains the Jews in the latter days who have BEGUN to believe in Christ.

The Book of Mormon cryptically informs us that the Jews (that call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints), have only begun to believe. They cannot fully comprehend and live the fulness of the gospel. 2 Nephi 30:7

The Two Witnesses Come at the Time of Restoration

Because of their blindness and partial belief and unwillingness to repent and receive the fulness, these latter day Jews will be visited and chastised and warned by the two witnesses mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

This final warning to the partially believing Jews who call themselves the latter day saints, takes place when the final time of restoration takes place during the Marvelous Work and a Wonder. Joseph Smith had this to say about the appearance of the two witnesses to the Jewish nation at the time of restoration:

15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?

A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers. D&C 77:15

America is the land of the Abrahamic Covenant. It is the latter day land of all of the tribes of Israel including the Jews who first begin to believe in Christ BEFORE they gather. Again, sections 109 and 110 inform us that the true gathering of the Jews in the latter days began in about 1836.. It begins because they believe in Christ even though they cannot live the fulness.

The notion that the gathering of the Jews in the latter days began in 1947-8, in the Old World Jerusalem BEFORE the Jews begin to collectively believe in Christ, is not congruent with prophecy and is false. It completely contradicts the Book of Mormon and the D&C. It is a smokescreen that has been set up by the Vatican, the U.N.,  and the Ashkenazi Jews that run the global fiat banking system that has enslaved the people of this earth. 

The beginning passages in Section 133 testify that all of the tribes of Israel will be gathered to America. A type of this was provided when Joseph was sold into bondage and was followed to the new land of bondage by his brethren of the other tribes.

That was a type of how remnants of Joseph among the Gentiles would be carried to the land of America in the latter days and that eventually the other tribes would follow them to the land of America. America was to become a land of hidden bondage to God’s people until the final time of restoration and gathering should take place.

When the dispensation of the fulness of times is finally ushered in during the final restoration, Gods saints that have gathered to America from among the gentiles nations will flee to Zion.

Following that, God’s people among the latter day kingdom of Judah will flee to the land of Jerusalem that is also located in America!

All of this is about to take place.

The elect of God are about to be called out by the elders of God’s church that was in existence in November of 1832 as unconditionally promised in Section One of the Doctrine and Covenants. The protocol and chronology having to do with the calling out of the elect will take place as declared in sections 88, 109, 133, and other sections.

Section One begins by giving us the prophetic narrative of what happens when the Lord’s disciples who had published the Book of Commandments, return in the 3rd watch to declare the voice of warning.

They shall declare that the saints have strayed from the true ordinances and broken the everlasting covenant:

1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, saith the voice of him who dwells on high, and whose eyes are upon all men; yea, verily I say: Hearken ye people from afar; and ye that are upon the islands of the sea, listen together.

2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.

3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.

5 And they shall go forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.

6 Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth.

7 Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled.

8 And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, bearing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious;

9 Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measure—

10 Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man.

11 Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear:

12 Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh;

13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.

14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

As you can see from the above passages, it is the Lords disciples that published the revelations contained in the Book of Commandments and Doctrine and Covenants that will be the ones to return to raise the final voice of warning and seal up the wicked.

Verse 7 provides this ominous warning that the servants will verily return

Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them (Joseph and his Brethren that published the revelations) shall be fulfilled.

Later in this section the Lord would once again warn us that every unconditional promise and prophecy in his Book of Commandments would be fulfilled:

37 Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

39 For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen.

The Elect Will Be Gathered BEFORE the Day of Tribulation and Desolation

The above declaration that the founding disciples of the restored church will be the ones to return and gather God’s elect had already been established in an earlier revelation.

That unconditional promise of God given through Joseph Smith in the presence of six elders as contained in Section 29 states that those seven elders will gather out the elect BEFORE the day of tribulation and desolation takes place!

4 Verily, I say unto you that ye are chosen out of the world to declare my gospel with the sound of rejoicing, as with the voice of a trump.

7 And ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect; for mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts;

8 Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of this land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked

Those passages in Section 1 and 29 and other sections, inform us how the elect will be gathered to Zion in preparation against the day of tribulation and desolation.  But what about those of Judah within the LDS church that will also be gathered out to ultimately go to the “mountains of the Lord’s house” located in America?

You may be thinking to yourself that the modern corporate church (which represents the latter day kingdom of Judah) is light years away from being gathered anywhere because they have no plans to gather anywhere and they are not anticipating Zion.

Further, prophetic scripture seems to indicate that they will reject the true servants of the Lord and they do not seem to understand the signs of the times around us.

You may be thinking that the modern church suffers from complacency and seems to be doing the tango with Babylon and is oblivious to the fact that the season of the Lord’s return is upon us.

If you are an active latter day saint then you have noticed that the topic of Zion is seldom spoken about in church in a serious and passionate way as a literal event that is soon to happen.

Although that may be true regarding the general, mainstream, collective body of the latter day Jews, there is a remnant within the LDS church that is very much focused on Zion and is anxiously preparing to be gathered out.

They do indeed recognize the season of the Lord’s return and they are diligently making temporal preparations.

A Remnant of Judah is Currently Preparing for the Gathering

In this post I am going to put a spotlight on who they are and give you a synopsis of what their beliefs are and how they are preparing to be gathered out. Some of you may be part of this group.

I have a soft spot in my heart for these people even though I do not feel as if I am part of their tribe.

I know that they are a remnant of God’s people and he loves them very much. Ultimately, after their pain, they will be redeemed and saved in a kingdom of glory.

Interestingly, some of them think that the preliminary gathering out will begin this year.

I am very hopeful also.

I base my speculative conclusions on a different set of data than they do, nevertheless, we both have arrived at the same general timeline with regard to when major events will begin to happen.

Of course I have been speculating about the time that things will begin to happen for many years and I have the dubious distinction of batting 1000% in my speculative predictions.

They have all been wrong.

That is because I am not a prophet, I am a “Yankee Guesser” like BY.

Those of Judah Preparing to Gather have no Formal Organization

This remnant of Judah within the modern church is a rather loosely organized fellowship that sustains the current leaders of the LDS church as prophets, seers and revelators.

They congregate at preparedness fairs, Book of Mormon Conferences, Gileadi Lectures, and other similar events. They even sponsor special “Zion Camps” where fellow “preppers” camp out together for a week at a time to hear lectures from people like Mechelle (Shelle) McDermott and enjoy classes about a multitude of topics having to do with end times prophecy and physical preparations for the impending calamities  and the interim gathering out to tent cities.

Some of the main declarations coming from this group of people are as follows-

1- A huge earthquake is going to hit the Wasatch Front very soon followed by financial chaos, plagues, civil war and the invasion of America.

2- The leaders of the LDS Church will not warn the church about this calamity.

3- The more righteous in the church will be temporally prepared for this calamity and will be gathered to “tent cities” in designated “cities of refuge”.

The Leaders of the Church will not Raise the Warning Voice

Those are among the major points of belief and general mantra of this group of believers. Interestingly, they believe selected members of the church are currently getting their calling and election made sure.

Oddly enough, they don’t believe the leaders of the church will raise the warning voice just before calamity hits because they feel that the leaders of the church have already given an adequate general warning for many decades.

The following video titled “There Will Be No General Warning By The Prophet Before The Prophesied Calamities Strike” distills their belief about why the ordained watchmen on the wall will be silent and not offer the voice of warning prior to this great calamity.

 

Isaiah 52 and 62 informs us that the true watchmen of the latter days will lift up the voice of warning just prior to the calamities, yet Isaiah 56 speaks of latter day watchmen that are impostors.  He characterizes them as blind, ignorant  dumb dogs that cannot bark.

10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Although these latter day Jews are active in the modern corporate church and claim to sustain the brethren, several leaders of the church have warned the general membership to not pay any attention to them. The leadership has continually admonished members to rely exclusively on the brethren for all of their prophetic guidance.

Since this group of believers appears to be classified among the Jews that only begin to believe in Christ without accepting the fulness when it returns, they do not appear to take the unconditional promises and prophecies in the Doctrine and Covenants literally and seriously nor do they appear to believe in the return of Joseph Smith and his fellow servants of the first laborers of the last kingdom .

Because of this, the Doctrine and Covenants is a sealed book to them regarding the prophecies contained therein.

In some of the presentations the following listing of prophetic books of scripture is what they encourage their followers to study. You will notice that only one section in the D&C is even mentioned:

Jeremiah
Ezekiel
Isaiah
The Book of Revelation
D&C 45
Matthew 24
Mark 13

With the exception of Section 45, the above listing of suggested prophetic scriptures to read seems to avoid the prophecies contained in modern revelation.

You will notice that the following sections containing critical information about the prophetic events of the last days are missing in the suggested reading list above.

Section 1 (preface)
Section 29
Section 88
Section 101
Section 103
Section 105
Section 109
Section 110
Section 112

Section 118
Section 133 (appendix)

To be fair, those that call themselves “the remnant” represent a very broad category and it contains many sub-factions. They do not all believe exactly the same.

It appears as if most of them have discounted the significance of the prophecies contained in the above sections in part.

Many in this group of latter day Jews do not see any need for the leaders and members of the Church to collectively repent of any serious wrongdoing.

It appears to me as if the majority of this collective group, that consider themselves to be the remnant of God’s people, don’t think the church has changed the ordinances and broken the everlasting covenant as documented in section one, Isaiah 24 and the Book of MalachiThey seem to be virtually illiterate regarding the true history of Mormonism with regard to how early the restored church became condemned and then rejected as a church with their dead.

Many of them think the church membership still has access to the fulness of priesthood (even though the fulness of power and blessings have largely been dormant since the martyrdom) and that all that is needed to bring down the fulness of power is greater faith. They do not recognize a need for any kind of course correction or the return of God’s servants.

Some factions within this group are very much oriented towards a gathering that is led by a Davidic Servant of the Lord while others feel that no servant is necessary.

Where do they get their prophetic beliefs from?

Their beliefs regarding doctrine and the pending calamities and subsequent gathering to tent cities, come largely from the following sources

1- The writings of Avraham Gileadi
2- Podcasts, talks and writings of Mike Stroud
3- The writings and teachings of Val Brinkerhoff
4- Selected writings and talks of Ezra Taft Benson
5- The Book titled “Visions of Glory” by John Pontius
6- The dreams, visions and writings by Sarah Menet
7- The dreams, visions and writings of Julie Rowe
8- The dreams, visions, writings and lectures of Mechelle (Shelle) McDermott
9- A collection of hundreds of other visions which have been collected and published by Roger K. Young.
10- Selected statements about the gathering by Brigham Young and other Utah General Authorities found in Journal of Discourses.

Again, not all members of this loosely organized group believe the same way but many of them are influenced by the teachings of the following teachers.

Shelle McDermott seems to be a chief organizer of some of their conferences and she is one of the primary visionaries that speaks about the tribulations that are about to take place.

Mike Stroud seems to be the doctrinal patriarch of this movement. I would characterize him as the “Denver Snuffer of active Mormons.”

Temporal preparedness is hugely emphasized among these people.

Below is a video of talks that Mike Stroud and Shelle McDermott gave at a recent conference.

 

The following link is to a podcast that Mike Stroud gives about receiving one’s calling and election. He claims to have over 15,000 followers of his blog.

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/mstroud/episodes/2017-07-17T07_25_26-07_00

I refer to Stroud as the Denver Snuffer of active Latter day Saints because he emphasized some of the same things regarding the importance of seeing and conversing with God that Snuffer was teaching before getting excommunicated.

He teaches that selected Mormons are currently getting their calling and election (despite the fact that they don’t have the fulness of priesthood, don’t live the fulness of the Gospel and have been rejected as a church with their dead.)

Indeed, there seems to be a strong connection between the group taught Stroud and McDermott, and those that follow the teachings of Denver Snuffer. I have even been informed that some of them follow my blog, dispute the fact that I have a radically different religious world view from either of those groups.

Both Groups Call themselves the Remnant

The preppers are calling themselves “the remnant” and the Snufferites are also calling themselves “the remnant“.

I know of high profile people in this prepper group that are also secretly participating in the new Snufferite church and have received the new baptism protocol set forth by Snuffer. I think the Snufferites do lots of proselytizing among the preppers.

Interestingly, Mike Stroud repeatedly makes reference to the fact that he is being taught by a “holy man”, but refuses to reveal who this holy man is. He also claims to know some anonymous bloggers who teach about the importance of calling and election and the Second Comforter. It is possible that the holy man that is feeding information to Stroud is either Snuffer or one of Snuffers disciples.

Mike Stroud claims that translated beings are currently commissioning and ordaining people as part of the 144,000 servants of God.

He appears to be connected to an underground group of people who claim to have a special authority.

When asked about the Snufferites, Mike Stroud refused to condemn their movement or acknowledge them as apostates. Here is a question that one of his students asked him about the Snufferites and his response

Student 1: The group that is following Denver Snuffer, they think they’re that group? (the remnant mentioned in scripture)

Mike: Well, there may be some of them that are.

Student 1: How could they? How could they since they are apostatizing? Don’t you believe that they’re apostatizing?

Mike: I don’t know. I know some of those people, and I know that they are honorable people and their hearts are in the right place. I don’t know what the Lord is going to do there, but I do know some of them personally, and they are fine, good people and they have strong faith. Whether or not they have been deceived, and whether their doctrine is false, that is something between them and the Lord.

Would the Real “Remnant” Please Stand Up?

It is interesting that both the Preppers and the Snufferites have both chosen to call themselves “the remnant“.

The term remnant shows up throughout the scriptures in many different ways. The scriptures speak of the remnant of Jacob, the remnant of the Gentiles, the remnant of Joseph, the remnant of Judah, the remnant of Israel, etc. 

Other times the scriptures only refer to “the remnant”, requiring the student of the scriptures to do extensive keyword searching and employ the spirit of revelation to discern which remnant is being spoken of.

Herein lies the wonderment of how the term is being used among these two groups of people.

One of the few sections in modern revelations that is spotlighted along with prophecies from the other standard works among these two groups is section 45 wherein the term remnant is used.

As previously discussed, Section 133 speaks of two gatherings and associated harvests that are about to take place. The first gathering has to do with those of Joseph and Ephraim that are associated with the gentiles. The second gathering has to do with those of Judah.

In Section 45 the Lord cryptically refers to those among the gentiles as “my disciples”  that shall “stand in holy places“. Conversely, that same section speaks of “a remnant” [of the Jews] from Jerusalem that is scattered among all nations that are gathered into the LDS church AFTER the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled during Joseph Smith’s first ministry. Section 133 reveals that the believing remnant of Judah shall be saved and receive their inheritance AFTER their pain.

Both the Snufferites and the Preppers, have unwittingly referred to themselves as “the remnant” in the context of how it is used in Section 45.  This group of Latter day Saints feel they can receive the fulness of gospel blessings without living the fulness of the gospel. (additional passages that use the term remnant as it applies to the tribal identify of these two groups are  1 Nephi 10:14,  1 Nephi 15:13-14, 3 Nephi 16:4 & Rev 11:13

 

Fearful Outlook of the Events to Come

Among the many visions and dreams that create the fearful outlook of this group of people include the vision of John Taylor, the Cardston Temple vision by Sols Caurdisto, a vision by President George Albert Smith, the vision of Patriarch Charles D. Evans, the predictions of Bishop Koyle, the warnings of Apostle Moses Thatcher, the prophetic warnings and writings of Heber C. Kimball, and George Washington’s alleged vision of the invasion of America.

Huge emphasis is place upon the writings of John Pontius.

A typical last days presentation that incorporates the mindset of this group can be seen here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Lb8zQQC_NdMERITFBqSzRTM00/view

This group puts a huge emphasis on the role of Jewish Feast days in prophetic fulfillment. Among the prophetic signs and timeline speculations that are discussed within their meetings is the belief that the 70 Jubilees began in 1416 BC when God’s children entered Canaan and the fact that that time period has expired.

They believe a seventy year generation has nearly elapsed from the time the Jews began to gather to the Old World in 1948 brings us to the year 2018.

They also put a huge emphasis on the upcoming September 23 event.

Another important prophecy that leads many of them to believe that the era of the Messiah is upon us in 2017, is the one given 12th century Rabbi, Judah Ben Samuel.

A more detailed listing of their source material can be viewed here.  Additional resources are found here.

The following presentation was given by Mechelle McDermott in Arizona

The following statement by Brigham Young is typical of the types of predictions that this group is attracted to-

An inland Empire will be established in these valleys of the mountains, which will be a place of refuge for millions of people to gather to, when the great day of the judgments of God comes upon the earth, and the righteous come here for safety. Our people will go East…, West, North and South, but the day will come, when they will be glad to come back. We will be shut out from the rest of the world.” 

As previously stated, there are numerous movers and shakers within this movement, with Avraham Gileadi and Mike Stroud being among the most prolific teachers that are looked up to. Nevertheless, the unique thing about this group is that their prophetic worldview with regard to the pending calamities seems to be dictated primarily by three charismatic and visionary women who claim to have special gifts of the spirit and a connection to heaven.

Sarah Menet
Julie Rowe
Mechelle (Shelle) McDermott

These women love to share their visions and dreams to spell-bound audiences. There seems to be a real market for their special prophetic knowledge gained from their spiritual gifts.

Many members of the church who are watching for the signs of the times and seeking direction on how to prepare, are largely left frustrated and unsatisfied by the modern General Authorities of the Church and therefore are looking for like-minded people who recognize the signs of the times.

Modern leaders seem reticent to offer the voice of warning regarding impending doom. The voice of warning from the pulpit seems to be ever so subtle if not virtually non-existent with regard to an impending calamity.

In addition to being silent about warning people of any impending doom, leaders of the church have indicated that the writings and claims of these women should be considered to be “spurious” and “non-authoritative”.

In August of 2015 a memo was issued by the LDS Church Seminary and Institute Department titled “Spurious Materials in Circulation“.

This memo is updated periodically to clarify statements given by General Authorities, halt rumors about Church policies, or list books that were being used inappropriately in the classroom. Julie’s book fell into the last category.

Here is the actual statement:

Publication Caution: A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil
Additional Information: [August 31, 2015]

In 2014, Spring Creek Book Company published A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil by Julie Rowe (see shaded box for Amazon’s description of the book). Although Sister Rowe is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, her book is not endorsed by the Church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. The experiences she shares are her own personal experiences and do not necessarily reflect Church doctrine or they may distort Church doctrine.

A statement from the publisher of Julie Rowe’s book can be seen here.

Julie has since come out with the following statement:

“I agree that the Curriculum for LDS Church classes should only come from sources recognized by the LDS Church as being authoritative.  My story is not intended to be authoritative nor to create any Church doctrine.  It is simply part of my personal journey that I have chosen to share in hopes that it can help people to prepare for the times we live in by increasing their faith in Christ and by looking to our Prophet and Church leaders for guidance.”

—  Julie Rowe

According to one online commenter, their Stake President spoke with General Authorities regarding the claims of Julie Rowe and made the following statement:

“While I do not want to publicly disparage anyone for their personal belief and inspirations, read Jeremiah 23:32. I have been told by leadership that this is the case with Julie Rowe. 

“Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord.” Jeremiah 23:32:

It will be interesting to watch those that call themselves the remnant as the momentum builds and as we approach the end of the year.

Although I do not share their belief that you can ascend into heaven and claim the highest gospel blessings in a face to face relationship with the Lord until you have repented, entered into consecration and kept the full law of the gospel, I think their passion and sincerity in looking forth for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man set them apart from most Mormons.

One major question yet to be answered is whether the preppers will ultimately become a front for the Snufferite movement.

Another is will the preppers eventually depart from the main body of the church when they are gathered out.

It is very possible that they will simply remain in full membership and facilitate in preparing other Latter day Saint Jews for the gathering out when that time comes.

Regardless, I acknowledge their legitimacy as a latter day tribal entity.

I believe that they are fulfilling prophecy and that when the calamities do hit, they will probably be a huge catalyst with a huge effect upon others, regardless of how things play out.

I believe God loves them as a remnant of his people and my hope is that God will ultimately redeem them even if they must go through pain as a collective body of believers.

Section 45 informs us that at the time of Christ’s return in glory, these Jews will finally accept the truth. Because of this, they will abide the day of the Lord.

Praise God for his goodness and mercy.


Michael A. Kennedy: “Joseph Smith Never had Sex with Any of his Plural Wives”

August 19, 2017

The other night I and Mrs. Watcher had the opportunity to listen to a lecture by Michael Kennedy and his wife.

The lecture was entertaining and informative. Brother Kennedy has warmth and humor and passion when he speaks. We really enjoyed listening to him.

mike kennedy

Mike is apparently the first descendant of Joseph Smith Jr. to convert to the church and receive what the church claims to be the Melchizedek Priesthood.

My suspicion is that Mike has also received what the church refers to as the second endowment or anointing at the hands of the president of the church or one of the brethren.

The reason I have this suspicion is because the church has given him a special lifetime calling to seek out and gather, or unify, the remnants of the posterity of Joseph Smith Jr. and to be somewhat of a special emissary of the church in that capacity.

Mike Kennedy has made the following statement:

It makes sense that a loving God would have a plan that would recover the family of Joseph and Emma, honor the sacrifices made, and fulfill Joseph’s petition that his family would come to “be converted and redeemed with Israel, and know that thou art God” (D&C 109:70).  I did not know then that the Lord did have a plan, nor that I would be a big part of that effort.

As you can see, Mike Kennedy and the leaders of the church who have appointed him to help gather and unify the family of Joseph Smith Jr., believe that the time has come for Joseph’s family to finally be gathered and redeemed. They feel this effort is fulfilling prophecy.

It is a great honor for Brother Kennedy to be chosen to lead this effort.

By placing him in the spotlight and making him somewhat of an official emissary and spokesman on issues having to do with Joseph Smith Jr. as it relates to the history of Mormonism, the church indirectly presents him to be a credible authority on such issues.

Naturally the brethren take a huge risk in doing this should brother Kennedy ever  become disaffected from the church or begin teaching false doctrine.

Keep  in mind that brother Kennedy spends much of his time dealing with the posterity of Emma Smith, his cousins. Many of them believe in the restoration that Joseph Smith was involved with, and are very bitter towards the LDS church and the way that the LDS church has treated Emma and her offspring in the historical narrative that they have perpetuated.

Emma refused to go west with Brigham Young and the saints after the martyrdom and ensuing succession crisis in Nauvoo. Following that, harsh words and accusations about Emma were made by Brigham Young and other leaders of the Utah Mormons.

The brethren have put an enormous amount of trust in brother Kennedy, by virtue of the position they have placed him in, not because of anything he has accomplished or learned, but because of his birthright. Because of this, I suspect that the brethren have tested his loyalty and consecrated it with the higher religious endowment that usually takes selected members of the church to a higher level of loyalty.

Again, it is total speculation on my part that he has received the second endowment.

Mikes conversion story is quite fascinating and entertaining. It is well known to many and can be read here and here.

Although he has given many talks and fireside presentations, the talk he gave the other night seemed more controversial than what he has presented in the past.

It may be because he was addressing a fringe group of LDS preppers that thrive on controversial stuff or it may simply be a sign of the times.

In this post I am going to share some of the fascinating things that he talked about.

As always, there will not be even a hint of bias in the spin I put on his remarks.. LOL

The Posterity of Joseph Compared with the Posterity of Hyrum

One of the first things that caught my attention was the statistical comparison between the posterity of Joseph Smith and that of Hyrum Smith.

Mike had a genealogy chart showing the complete posterity of Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith Jr. has about 2500 descendants that can be verified.

He noted that Hyrum  has about 30,000 descendants !!!!!!!!

joseph posterity.png

This is shocking given the fact that both men died at the same time and Hyrum had only a few polygamous wives while Joseph Smith is believed by many to have had upwards of 30.

Both men had nine biological children from non-polygamous wives although one of Joseph’s was still born and two died shortly after birth.

Hyrum had 16 biological grand children and Joseph had 23 biological grandchildren.

Hyrum had no biological children from his two plural wives and to date, DNA suggests that Joseph Smith Jr. did not have a single biological descendant from any of his alleged polygamous wives either!!!!

One would think the brother with 23 biological grandchildren might have an advantage over the brother with 16, in propagating a large posterity.

Not in this case.

Obviously the fact that Hyrum’s posterity followed Brigham Young to Utah and was no doubt involved at least to some extent in polygamy before it was discontinued, while Joseph’s offspring did not go west and was not involved in polygamy, had some bearing on the lopsided discrepancy.

However, it appears as though most of Hyrum’s grandchildren were female and very few of his male grandchildren were involved in polygamy, hence polygamy does not appear to be the only or even the primary factor to be considered.

The practice of polygamy was abolished by the Utah church by the time the offspring of Hyrum became middle aged.

Brother Kennedy pointed out numerous instances having to do with why Joseph’s posterity did not seem to flourish. These instances included three of Joseph’s children that  died early, single females that did not marry and a son of Joseph’ that was committed to a mental institution.

If I am not mistaken, Joseph’s posterity of 2500 includes his adopted children from the murdocks. This would make his count of biological descendants even smaller than the 2,500 figure would indicate.

Interestingly Hyrum is the one designated in Section 124 as holding the office of PRIESTHOOD and PATRIARCH:

91 And again, verily I say unto you, let my servant William be appointed, ordained, and anointed, as counselor unto my servant Joseph, in the room of my servant Hyrum, that my servant Hyrum may take the office of Priesthood and Patriarch, which was appointed unto him by his father, by blessing and also by right;

92 That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people,

It seems somewhat fitting to me that the brother designated as the patriarch would produce such a vast posterity.

The Brigham Young Family Apologizes to the Emma Smith Family

Brother Kennedy mentioned that one of the challenges that he had in bringing all of the Smith relatives together and cultivating positive feelings towards each other had to do with how angry many of the Emma Smith descendants were about the mean things that Brigham Young and others had been said about Emma’s character and motivations at the time of the succession crisis.

Because of this Brother Kennedy felt that a public apology to the descendants of Emma Smith was appropriate and necessary in mending the hard feelings that still existed.

Brother Kennedy claims that his suggestion to the First Presidency was to get an official apology from the Brigham Young Family Organization, of which I am a member.

I suspect that Brother Kennedy’s original request was that the First Presidency issue the apology on behalf of the entire church and that the request was flatly turned down by the brethren as their policy is to never apologize for anything even when they are wrong.

Elder Oaks has stated that the church doesn’t “seek apologies,” “and we don’t give theM”.

Indeed, Elder Oaks has declared that members should never criticize the leaders of the church even when the criticism is true

 

At any rate, regardless of whether my speculation is accurate or not about the church refusing to apologize to the descendants of Emma Smith, Brother Kennedy was successful in getting the leaders of the church to encourage the leaders of the Brigham Young Family organization to issue a formal apology. Again, the apology was for the harsh things that have been said about Emma Smith by leaders and members of the church for the last four generations, beginning with the statements made by Brigham Young.

letter of apology

Brother Kennedy said that when members of both family organizations were gathered in a room to hear the Brighamite family leaders make the official apology, many of the angry descendants of Emma began weeping as they heard the apology. He felt this event went a long way in softening the hearts of many of the Emma Smith posterity.

Mrs Watcher and i were touched by this story.

As a descendant of Brigham Young I wanted to jump up and shout for joy when I heard about this apology. In fact, I wish i could have been the one to verbally make it.

As Brother Kennedy was diplomatically throwing Brigham Young under the bus, I envisioned myself driving it. I backed up several times so I could run over him again and again. LOL

DNA is on My Side!

Anyway, now for the really controversial part of Brother Kennedy’s presentation.

After pointing out that DNA testing has resulted in disqualifying every suspected polygamous descendant of Joseph Smith Jr. as being a true descendant, Brother Kennedy made the claim that Joseph Smith Jr. NEVER HAD SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH ANY OF HIS POLYGAMOUS WIVES!!!!

I just about fell of my chair when he made that claim.

I don’t remember him prefacing his remarks with “in my opinion…”

I only remember an authoritative declaration that Joseph Smith never had sex with any of his polygamous wives.

After the talk I cornered Brother Kennedy and informed him that what he was saying was not congruent with the conclusions that have been made by most LDS scholars on the topic. I then asked him if he had received any blow-back on his claims.

He said he had not gotten any blow-back on the claim that Joseph Smith never physically consummated any of his polygamous sealings. He then emphatically stated that “DNA is on my side on this issue”.

The Top LDS Apologist Begs to Differ

As soon as I got home from the meeting I sent an email to one of the top LDS scholars who has financed more research on this topic than anyone else and asked him is he agrees with the supposition being made by Brother Kennedy.

His response was as follows:

Hi Owiw, I haven’t heard from you for a while. Hope you are well. Bro. Kennedy is entitled to his opinion but the evidence supporting sexuality is very strong in several of the relationships. Here’s a link

http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/common-questions/plural-marriages-sexual/  

Included in that article is the following chart

polygamy chart

While I agree that the absence of verifiable offspring is compelling, it certainly is not conclusive.

The fact that a person does not have offspring from a wife or wives, does not categorically prove that they did not have sex with them.

I find the numerous testimonies of plural wives that they did have sex with Joseph to be just as compelling.

Perhaps more so.

I simply don’t think they all lied about it.

In addition to the testimonies of these women, countless men who knew Joseph Smith intimately also testified that he consummated his polygamous marriages.

Does God Intervene During Modern Times?

One of the most intriguing things about this issue to me is that to my knowledge, nobody has ever suggested the intervention of God in closing the wombs of Joseph’s polygamous wives from having children.

It is strange how we latter day saints have no problem accepting the fact that God miraculously closed and opened wombs from bearing children anciently, but it is beyond our faith and comprehension to consider the possibility that he might have done it in Joseph Smith’s day:

So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare childrenFor the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham’s wife.

Indeed there are numerous other times in the Bible when God closed up wombs or opened them for his own purposes. He seems to have total dominion over the sending of spirit children to this earth.

Two Completely Different Types of Polygamy

The controversy in Mike Kennedy’s talk did not end with his claim that Joseph Smith never had intercourse with his plural wives.

He then made the pronouncement that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young practiced two completely different types of polygamy.

He claimed that Joseph was practicing a spiritual wife- celestial marriage type of polygamy that did not require sex in this world.

Conversely, he claimed that Brigham Young used polygamy for the purpose of “planting the roots deeply” when the saints got to Utah, by propagating the Lords people through a form of polygamy that did involve sexual intercourse.

As I sat there pondering the theological and historical ramifications of what was being suggested, I was flabbergasted.

I wondered if the brethren knew that he was publicly teaching this stuff. Do they endorse this new line of thinking?

I must admit that much of his talk and the sanitized history that he shared seemed scripted by the church until he got to some of his views on the polygamy issue.

On the positive side, the new paradign that he was presenting actually creates an innovative way to enable the conflicting factions on this issue to come together in agreement on a  long disputed issue that has been very divisive.

joseph compromise

Those historians and doctrinal scholars, primarily in the Brigham Young-Hyrum Smith family traditions, who are adamant that Joseph Smith did practice polygamy are still validated that he did, while those that have adamantly claimed that Joseph did not have physical relations with polygamous wives, primarily from the Emma Smith family tradition, are also validated.

It actually makes a lot of sense that such a theory would be presented by a man who has spent years trying to bring these two factions of the restoration together since this issue is one of the chief doctrinal and historical contentions that have separated them.

Frankly, the theory creates cognitive dissonance in my brain.

If indeed Joseph Smith intentionally abstained from sexual intercourse with the wives that he sealed to himself, it is difficult to believe that Brigham Young was justified in doing the opposite.

On the other hand, if Brigham Young was justified and correct in having sex with the women that were sealed to him, then why wouldn’t Joseph Smith have done the same thing since he is the prophet of the dispensation and the one to introduce the general doctrine?

Since Brigham Young repeatedly claimed that Joseph Smith had intercourse with his polygamous wives and that Brigham was simply perpetuating the doctrine of celestial marriage that had been taught to him by Joseph, Brother Kennedy was once again just diplomatically suggesting that Brigham got it wrong. He was once again throwing poor old Brigham Young under the bus.

I must confess, both those who claim that Joseph was a polygamist that had sex with his wives, and also those that claim that he never practiced polygamy, have compelling evidence to support their beliefs.

The Biblical Profile of Joseph Smith Provides the Answer

The ultimate conclusion that I have made regarding the polygamy issue comes largely from the Biblical profile of Joseph Smith which informs us that after the Davidic Servant restores the law and builds the temple, he would “commit iniquity” and be “chastened by the rod of men” (2 Sam 7) . More specifically, the prophetic profile  informs us that the Davidic Servant “dealt treacherously” against the “wife of his youth” ( Mal 2)

Interestingly, although it outwardly appears as if the Davidic Servant becomes a fallen prophet after restoring the law and building the temple, Isaiah informs that the real reason that the Davidic Servant “errs in doctrine” (Isa) 28) is because his eyes are “covered” by the Lord. The Lord covers his eyes because the latter day saints “reject” the Lord’s servant and the law he brings forth. (Isa 29)

From the very beginning of the restoration movement, the Lord had warned the saints that if they hardened their hearts and did not repent, he would “deliver them up unto Satan”  (BofC 4) 

It is my belief that-

The Lord used his servant Joseph Smith to restore the law and build the temple.

The latter day saints rejected the law of the Lord that was restored by Joseph Smith.

Because the latter day saints rejected God’s Law and his Servant, the Lord covered the eyes of His Seer and allowed him to err in doctrine.

The Lord used his servant to deliver the saints up to Satan for a little season of chastisement and learning.

 

A final opportunity for the latter day saints to repent will take place when the “times of the gentiles comes in” again and  “light shines forth” among  those that sit in darkness. (D&C 45)

 

 


Updated Listing of Audio Recordings of Posts 7/21/17

July 21, 2017
History
Part 1- Summary of The Secret History of Mormonism
Part 2 The Secret History of Mormonism: Period One
Part 3 The Secret History of Mormonism: Period Two
Part 4 The Secret History of Mormonism: Period Three
A Mystical Look at the LDS restoration Movement
Four Steps in Losing your Naivete- Part one read by Mrs. Wat
Four Steps in Losing your Naivete-Part Two read by Mrs. Watc
Four Steps in Losing your Naivete-Part 3 read by Mrs. Watche
Four Steps in Losing Your Naivete – Part 4 read by Mrs. Watc
Four Steps in Losing Your Naivete- Part 6a read by Mrs. Watc
Four Steps in Losing your Naivete- Part 6b read by Mrs. Watc
Five Steps in Losing Your Naivete-Part 7a read by Mrs. Watch
Five steps in Losing Your Naivete-Part 7b read by Mrs. Watch
Five Steps in Losing your Naivete-Part 7c read by Mrs. Watch
Losing Your Innocence-Appendix 1 read by Mrs. Watcher
Losing Your Innocence-Appendix 2 The Testimony and Example o
Losing Your Innocence-Appendix 3 The Utah Mormon culture tha
Are You Sure You Are a Gentile? Part 1 Read by Mrs. Watcher
Are You Sure You Are A Gentile? Part Two Read by Mrs. Watche
Are You Sure You Are A Gentile? Part Three Read by Mrs. Watc
Are You Sure You Are A Gentile? Part Four read by Mrs. Watch
Are You Sure You Are A Gentile Part Five read by Mrs Watche
“The Letter…Law, Commandments and the Ordinances…” read
 ” There is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. “

Oliver’s Secret- Part 1 read by Mrs. Watcher


Olivers Secret-Part 2 read by Mrs. Watcher

The Savior in Kirtland By Karl Anderson -review and critique

The Savior in Kirtland- Part One read by Mrs. Watcher

The Savior in Kirtland- Part 2 read by Mrs. Watcher

The Savior in Kirtland- Part 4 read by Mrs. Watcher

 

Priesthood
The “Priesthood of Aaron” is not synonymous with the “Aaronic Priesthood”
Exclusivity of Priesthood and the Seven Signs of the True Ch
 
Chapters from the Book: Solving the Prophet Puzzle
Mrs Watcher Reads Preface to Solving the Prophet Puzzle
Mrs Watcher reads the Introduction to The Prophet Puzzle
Mrs Watcher Reads Chapter 1 Solving the Prophet Puzzle
Solving the Prophet Puzzle Chapter 3 Part 1 A Stone of Stumbling
 
Prominent Personalities of the Restoration
The Return of Sidney Rigdon Part One
The Return of Sidney Rigdon Part Two
The Return of Sidney Rigdon, God’s Spokesman…Part Three
 
Succession Issue
The Law of Succession- Part One (seven parts) read by Mrs. W
The Law of Succession Part Two: Hyrum Replaces Joseph as Prophet – Read by Mrs. Watcher
The Law of Succession-Part Three (Hyrum was commissioned to
The Law of Succession-Part Four (The Real Succession Issue w
The Law of Succession-Part Five (William Marks Challenges th
The Law of Succession- Part Six-William Marks Warns the Twel
Final: Part 7-William Law-Offering a Reformation and Bringin
 
Prophecy
Seven Shepherds and an Angel
Sealing Up The TESTIMONY-Part One read by Mrs. Watcher
 
Marriage/Polygamy/Monogamy
The Spiritual Wife Doctrine-read by Mrs. Watcher
Analysis of Section 132 Part 1 read by Mrs. Watcher
Analysis of Setion 132 Part 2 read by Mrs. Watcher
The Spirit of Whoredoms hath Caused them to Err read by Mrs.
 
Celibacy, the Doctrine of Marriage and the Shaker Connection
 
Priesthood Restoration and Authority
Searching for the Holy Order and the 23 Hifh Priests- Part 1
Searching for the Holy Order and the 23 High Priests-Part 2
Searching for the Holy Order and the 23 High Priests- Part 3

Searching for the Holy Order and 23 High Priests- Part 4a re

Searching for the Holy Order and 23 High Priests-Part 4b rea

Searching for the Holy Order and the 23 High Priests-Part 5
Searching for the Holy Order and the 23 High Priests Part 6-

Searching for the Holy Order and 23 High Priests-Part 7 read

Searching for the Holy Order and the 23 High Priests Part 8a

 

God will never allow a prophet to lead anyone astray…?
 
Personal Revelation
“I Will Tell You In Your Mind And In Your Heart” read by Mrs
 
Doctrine
Which day is the Sabbath? Read by Mrs. Watcher
The Doctrine of “Awareness” Part 1 read by Mrs. Watcher
The Doctrine of “Awareness” Part Two read by Mrs. Watcher
The Doctrine Of Awareness- Part Three A read by Mrs. Watcher
 
A Tribute to the Great Counselors of the LDS Restoration- Pa
William Law One of the Truly Great Men

William Law-Looking at William Law through the eyes of the L

Commandments-Doctrine-Covenants Series

Book of Commandments and the Doctrine & Covenants- Part 1 re

Book of Commandments and the Doctrine & Covenants- Part 2 re

Rebuttal to Passing the Heavenly Gift Series
Reading Abraham While God Winks-Part 1 (Proving the Book of
Documenting God’s Relationship with His people in the Latter days

Was a Seerstone Used in the Process of Translation? read by

 

Evidences of the Three Watches
(Posts from the ThreeWatches BlogSpot Website

The Three Watches…Proof and Evidence #1 

Three Watches Proof and Evidence #2 read by Mrs. Watcher

Three Watches Proof and Evidence #3- read by Mrs. Watcher

Proofs of The Three Watches D&C 65 A Prayer Received by Reve

More to come..