“..have men authority to administer in the name of Christ, who deny revelations?”

December 2, 2017

I got a remarkable email from a reader of this blog the other day.

Mrs Watcher and I decided to do a podcast where we read and discuss it.

The recording is very bad and I tried placing text over the video in places and often times did not properly size it… sorry

Also, the video may not start at the beginning. You may need to start it at the beginning after it starts playing.

I am technically challenged, what can I say?

Enjoy

 

 

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Is Gratitude an Attribute of God? Is God Grateful to Humans who Offer Sacrifices to Him?

November 26, 2017

Recently I was reading about a direct “revelation” that a person claimed to receive.

In the revelation, God said,

“I am grateful for all your efforts..”

The minute I read that my mind was filled with confusion.

I found myself quickly cataloguing all of the scriptures I had read to find that exact wording or similar wording, or even a sentiment that might coincide with this verbiage.

In this claimed revelation, God was speaking in terms I had never encountered.

The use of this term “grateful” seemed to displace and re-characterize that nature of God differently than he characterizes himself in scripture.

Gratitude and thankfulness are important human attributes that we need to have, there is no question about that. But is it truly an attribute of deity?

The term grateful is almost synonymous with the term thankful, in fact it is the first descriptive used in the definition.

 

THANK’FUL, a. Grateful; impressed with a sense of kindness received, and ready to acknowledge it. The Lord’s supper is to be celebrated with a thankful remembrance of his sufferings and death.

Be thankful to him, and bless his name. Ps.100 (1828 Websters Dictionary)

God commands us to be thankful in all things (D&C 59:7,21 ; 62:7)

But are gratitude and thankfulness attributes that God declares himself to have?

Is God grateful to humans or any other intelligent entity for anything?

I am unaware of any passage in the standard works that suggests that God is ever grateful for anything, let alone, grateful for anything that humans accomplish.

In my mind, gratitude is subordinate response.

SUBOR’DINATE, a. [L. sub and ordinatus, from ordo, order.]

1. Inferior in order,in nature, in dignity, in power, importance, &c.; as subordinate officers.
It was subordinate, not enslaved, to the understanding.
2. Descending in a regular series.
The several kinds and subordinate species of each, are easily distinguished.
SUBOR’DINATE, v.t. To place in order or rank below something else; to make or consider as of less value or importance; as, to subordinate one creature to another; to subordinate temporal to spiritual things.

1. To make subject; as, to subordinate the passions to reason

In my mind, being grateful to somebody is a response someone has to someone in a position of greater control in at least one respect.

It seems to me that if God is subordinate to humans in any way, he is not omnipotent

I believe this is why God has never said in scripture that he is grateful to humans.

Additionally, in my own experience, gratitude takes place when the outcome of something is not previously known. Yet God has all time continually before his face. He has infinite foreknowledge. He is never surprised at a given outcome.

I am aware of God telling someone that He is “pleased” with something they did, but not “grateful“. Telling someone that you are pleased with their actions could simply be an act of giving feedback to one of His creatures so that they know they are on the right track.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith, I am well pleased with your offering and acknowledgments, which you have made; for unto this end have I raised you up, that I might show forth my wisdom through the weak things of the earth. Doctrine and Covenants 124:1,12,84

Interestingly, I think that the term “pleased” is probably a component of the definition of grateful, yet not the same.

PLE’ASED, pp. Gratified; affected with agreeable sensations or emotions.

Strangely, “grateful” is not used in the definition of “gratified”

GRAT’IFIED, pp. Pleased; indulged according to desire.

Again, if gratitude is such an important attribute for humans to have, why wouldn’t it be one of the attributes that God has?

If I view God through the lens of the King Follett Sermon, I guess I can see God being grateful to humans since he was once human and simply evolved into a God.

On the other hand, if I view God through the lens provided by Lectures on Faith, believing that there have been no other Gods before him, and that God the Father has always been all powerful and all-knowing, and is the creator of all things and all other creatures (creating all things through His Son Jesus Christ), it seems somewhat disrespectful if not blasphemous to characterize God as having the human attribute of being grateful to human beings for anything.

If God created us and provided the plan of salvation and suffered for our sins, and gives us the gift of faith and all good gifts, does he not get the credit for anything of value that we have done?

Does not the act of being grateful imply that we did something God could not do for us?

I did a keyword search for the word “grateful” to see how the scriptures use the word.

Nothing came up except in Official Declaration 2.

I did a keyword search for the word “gratitude” to see how the scriptures use the word.

The only thing that came up in the LDS online search was how Oliver Cowdery used it as a descriptive for how he felt as he witnessed the revelatory process as Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon-

Joseph Smith—History 1

Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’

It is fascinating to me that those two words are NEVER used in conjunction with God’s attributes and seldom used at all in scripture.

I continued trying to understand why I am having a brainfart with how the claimed revelation reads.

I think the answer is contained deep within the definition of the word

Grateful 1. Having a due sense of benefits; kindly disposed towards one from whom a favor has been received; willing to acknowledge and repay benefits; as a grateful heart.2. Agreeable; pleasing; acceptable; gratifying; as a grateful present; a grateful offering.3. Pleasing to the taste; delicious; affording pleasure; as food or drink grateful offering. Now golden fruits on loaded branches shine, And grateful clusters swell with floods of wine.

Do mortals provide God with benefits? Does God receive favors from mortals?

I guess I can see how an argument can be made in favor of God being grateful to mortals, depending on how a person views the nature and character of God, but somehow, as I think upon the attributes of the Father of all lights with regard to his creations, it just doesn’t seem appropriate that God would say he is “grateful” to humans for anything.

Pleased, yes.

Well Pleased, yes

Grateful, no.

I am sure there are readers of this blog that see this differently than me. Particularly those that have leanings towards the New Age Movement philosophies or a belief in the King Follett Discourse.

I am interested in understanding how I might be wrong on this issue.

In a sense it probably isn’t all that important. On the other hand, it has to do with the true nature and character of God. It has to do with how we perceive him and ultimately, how we honor and worship and glorify him.

I suppose it is also important in discerning the truthfulness of the claimed revelation from God that I was reading about.

Please provide your strong reasons and help me see what I am missing.

I could be wrong in this issue

Help me see the light.

onewhoiswatching [at] gmail [dot] com

 

 

 


Weighed in the Balance and Found Wanting: The Claims of Mauricio Berger- The Gentiles Bring forth and Translate the Last Records

November 24, 2017

In the last segment of this series, we addressed the Jewish tradition that the first six thousand years would be broken into three equal segments consisting of two thousand year periods.

I shared my belief that Hosea may have been referring to the dividing of the six thousand years into what called three “days”.

He spoke about how God’s people would be “torn” in the first “day” but would be “revived” and “raised up” in the third day.

(I made a mistake in the chart and in the summation of that prophecy in my last post which has since been corrected)

three days 6

We discussed how Paul and Peter accurately declared that they had entered into the “last days” and the “last times” when the gospel Invitation was extended to the “Gentiles”.

I pointed out that the term “last days” is synonymous with the term “days of the Gentiles” according to the Book of Mormon and that the “Days of the Gentiles” lasts until the Gentiles repent and come sanctified before the Lord. (The term “days of the Gentiles” should not be confused with the term “times of the Gentiles)

I pointed out that only those that accept the book of Mormon and the revelations brought forth through the prophet Joseph Smith as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants could understand the details of what would take place during the “days of the Gentiles”, namely, the three part invitation to the Gentiles.

One of the major disconnects that I have with the religious worldview and prophetic narrative being presented by Elder Smith, Seventy Moore, and Mauricio Berger, is that the either don’t believe the revelations in the D&C or they take them lightly.

The last days, or days of the Gentiles began with the New Testament apostles taking the gospel to the gentiles, it continued through the prophet Joseph Smith during his “first commission”, and it will culminate during his “second commission” when the final restoration of all things takes place.

In the previous post I provided a link to an article that contained 16 separate revelatory declarations pertaining to the mind-blowing fact that Joseph Smith and his associates would return from the dead to complete their commission. Ancient and modern scripture needs to be read together synergistically for the true prophetic narrative to emerge.

The prophet Isaiah gives a davidic lamentation in Isaiah 49 about the Davidic servant, Joseph Smith Jr., who will gather Israel in the end times.

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

5 ¶ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

In the lamentation, God’s Davidic servant acknowledges that he has “labored in vain” to gather Israel.

That is how many people feel about the first ministry of Joseph Smith. It appears that he labored in vain and failed to gather God’s people and redeem Zion.

That false assumption represents the foundational premise in the prophetic narrative that Elder Smith, Seventy Moore and Mauricio Berger are suggesting.

According to the lamentation in Isaiah 29, God informs his servant that fails in his first attempt to gather Israel, that he shall yet be glorious in the eyes of the Lord. This covenant servant is given to be the “light of the Gentiles“. He will yet represent the Lord’s salvation to the “end of the earth“.

This same covenant servant had previously been identified in Isaiah 42. He is the one who will bring judgment to the Gentiles. He is the one that brings the LAW to the Gentiles.

He is given for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles:

1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

5 ¶ Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Compare the above wording in Isaiah 42 and 49 with the prophetic declaration in D&C 45:

9 And even so I have sent mine everlasting covenant [servant] into the world, to be a light to the world, and to be a standard for my people, and for the Gentiles to seek to [him], and to be a messenger before my face to prepare the way before me.

10 Wherefore, come ye unto [him], and with him that cometh I will reason as with men in days of old, and I will show unto you my strong reasoning.

The Davidic covenant servant made his first attempt to gather Israel back in the 1830’s.

His first attempt failed because of the wickedness of latter day Israel.

The covenant servant had to make an intercession for God’s apostate people just as Moses made an intercession for ancient Israel.

Just as Moses and Aaron sinned in their intercessory role, Joseph and his associates also committed intercessory transgressions.

The intercession resulted in an interim missionary work that took the KNOWLEDGE of the fullness of the Gospel to the “dispersed of Judah” and the “outcasts of Israel”.

When the final restitution of all things takes place, the covenant servant will return and complete his commission.

first invitation 2

Notice that the first wave of the second invitation to the Gentiles began with the New Testament Apostles taking the gospel to the Gentiles directly after the resurrection of Christ.

Many of the New Testament Gentile saints entered into covenant and obtained the promise of eternal life at that time.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” ( verse 48)

Following the eventual collective apostasy of the New Testament Church, the LDS restoration movement of the 1830’s once again began extending the second invitation to the Gentiles.

During that second wave of the second invitation, some of the Gentile saints became sanctified through the fulness of the Gospel and also obtained the promise of eternal life-

“..the angels rejoice over you; the alms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, and are recorded in the book of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.

Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.

This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom..” (D&C 88:2-4)

Nevertheless, just like the collective body of Christ in New Testament times eventually went into the wilderness of darkness, the restored church once again went into apostasy.

The gentiles could not collectively live the fullness of the gospel, which includes the law of consecration. This is because the Lord was allowing the wheat and tares to grow together until the harvest was fully ripe.

In a letter sent in 1833 to Mr Saxton, a newspaper editor, Joseph Smith revealed that his early ministry in Kirtland, represented the tail end of the same dispensation that had begun with the New Testament Apostles.

He declared that the New Testament saints had departed from the faith and broken the covenant:

Thus after this chosen family had rejected Christ and his proposals the heralds of salvation said to them. “lo I we turn <un>to the gentiles,” and the gentiles received the covenant and were grafted in from whence the chosen family were broken off but the Gentiles have not continued in the goodness of God but have departed from the faith that was once delivered to the saints and have broken the everlasting covenant in which their fathers were established (Saxton Letter)

Once the saints of the LDS restoration rejected the fullness of the Gospel, the impending Judgments of God began to fall upon the world.

In the Saxton Letter, Joseph Smith noted and boldly declared that in order to escape the impending judgments people of that generation must received the saving ordinances and enter into the “new covenant” of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He warned that the governments of the world were about to be thrown into “confusion and division” (these prophetic descriptive aptly characterize the state of the world we are now living in!);

The Lord has declared to his servants some Eighteen months since that he was then withdrawing his spirit from the earth, and we can see that such is the fact for not only the churches are dwindling away, but there are no convers[i]ons, or but very few, and this is not all, the governments of the earth are thrown into confusion & division, and distruction to the eye of the spiritual beholder seemes to be writen by the finger of an invisable hand in Large capitals upon almost evry thing we behold——

And now what remains to be done under circumstan[c]es like these, I will proce[e]d to tell you what the Lord requires of all people high and Low, rich and poor, male and female, ministers & people professors of religeon, and nonproffessors in order that they may enjoy the holy spirit of God to a fulness, and escape the Judgments of God which are almost ready to burst upon the nations of the earth—

Repent of all your sins and be baptized in water for the remission of them, in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Ghost, and receive the ordinance of the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power, that ye may receive the holy spirit of God, and this according to the holy scriptures, and of the Book of Mormon; and the only way that man can enter into the Celestial kingdom. These are the requesitions of the new Covenant or first principles of of the Gospel of Christ;

Joseph Smith informed his readers that the Western tribes of Indians were descendants of Joseph who was sold into Egypt and that the land of America is the promised land that ALL TRIBES OF ISRAEL WILL GATHER TO:

The Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western Tribes of Indians, having been found through the ministration of an holy Angel translated into our own Language by the gift and power of God, after having been hid up in the earth for the last fourteen hundred years containing the word of God, which was delivered unto them,

By it we learn that our western tribes of Indians are desendants from that Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and that the Land of America is a promised land unto them, and unto it all the tribes of Israel will come. with as many of the gentiles as shall comply with the requesitions of the new co[v]enant.

Joseph Smith was revealing a novel concept that had not been taught by protestant prophecy scholars. Namely, that ALL of the tribes of Israel would gather to America.

Continuing on, he reiterated that the tribe of Judah would go to the “old Jerusalem, City of Zionthat will be built up IN AMERICA!

But the tribe of Judah will return to old Jerusalem, The City, of Zion, spoken of by David in the 102 Psalm will be built upon the Land of America
 and the ransomed of the Lord shall return and come to it with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads, and then they will be delivered from the overflowing scourge that shall pass through the Land But Judah shall obtain deliverence at Jerusalem see Joel 2. 32. Isaiah 26, 20 & 21, Jer. 31, 12, Psalm 50. 5, Ezekiel 34, 11, 12 & 13,

[Note: Modern commentaries and histories have changed the comma to a period after the word “Jerusalem” in the above quote to make it appear as if the latter day Jerusalem is still located in the Old World, on a separate continent from the latter day Zion in America.

I have written extensively on this topic and provided additional documentation to back this astonishing claim. You can read about it at this link. ]

In the letter to Mr. Saxton, Joseph Smith warned that there was a short window of time for the world to repent and enter into the safety of Zion before t judgments and calamities and overflowing scourge overtake them

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the hystory of our nation pestalence hail famine and earthquake will sweep the wicked off this generation from off the face of this Land to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country—

The people of the Lord, those who have complied with the requsitions of the new covenant have already commenced gathering togethe[r] to Zion which is in the State of Missouri.

Therefore I declare unto you the warning which the lord has commanded me to declare unto this generation, rembring [remembering] that the eyes of my maker are upon me and that to him I am accountabl for evry word I say wishing nothing worse to my fellow men then their eternal salvation therefore fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come, <Repent ye> Repent, ye and imbrace the everlasting Covenant and flee to Zion before the overflowing scourge overtake you

Shortly after giving these ominous warnings the saints who had been gathering to the land of Zion were cast out of it by the unbelieving Gentiles that inhabited the land.

Shortly thereafter, Joseph declared that the Lord had revealed to him that something NEW must be done for the temporal salvation of the saints.

God revealed to me that something new must be done for the salvation of His Church.

This “something new” was a revelation to send missionaries to England to preach the gospel.

Following that, God commissioned the quorum of the Twelve Apostles to cross the great waters and seek those of the House of Israel. (See D&C 118)

“And next spring let them depart to go over the great waters, and there promulgate my gospel, the fulness thereof, and bear record of my name..” And next spring let them depart to go over the great waters, and there promulgate my gospel, the fulness thereof, and bear record of my name. And next spring let them depart to go over the great waters, and there promulgate my gospel, the fulness thereof, and bear record of my name.” (See D&C 118)

This interim missionary work was the literal fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy in 3rd Nephi 16 wherein he prophesied that after the Gentiles rejected the fullness if the gospel, the KNOWLEDGE of the fullness of the gospel would be taken to the House of Israel:

Below I am going to break down the prophecy of Christ into three distinct historical events. The first two have taken place. The last one is about to take place.

The prophecy of Christ in 3rd Nephi details this exact sequence:

Part 1- The Gentiles Reject the fulness that is offered for 3 1/2 years between June 1831 and December of 1834

“And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles (Latter day restored church of Christ) shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.”

Part 2- The “knowledge” of the fulness of the gospel is taken from the Gentiles to the House House of Israel: Joseph Smith declares that the Lord has revealed to him that “Something new must be done for the salvation of the Church”. He then established foreign missions to take the “knowledge of the gospel” to the “Outcasts of Israel and the dispersed of Judah”. Thousands of converts began flowing into Nauvoo and eventually to Utah.

Following the succession crisis, the quorum of the Twelve and their converts of the latter day Jews that joined the church took over the leadership positions of the church. Gentile leaders such as Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, William Marks and William Law were replaced by Brigham Young and his brethren, an eventually from converts from across the great waters.

The Gentiles no longer had priesthood power over the remnants of Judah. The kingdom of Judah was secretly re-established in the last days and is now disguised as the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.

And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the KNOWEDGE of the fulness of my gospel.

Part 3- In the third watch, the original Gentile servants of God will return and repent at the conclusion of the acceptable atonement offering. The fulness of the gospel will then be restored and the dispensation of the fulness of times and the Marvelous work will be ushered in and the righteous and repentant among both houses of Israel during the last four generations will be reunited in fulfillment of prophecy.

“But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.”

BTW the above passages have been altered a little bit from the original Book of Mormon. Notice how the phrase “fullness of the gospel” was removed in one passage:

Greater emphasis and clarity was given to the fact that it was the “fullness of the Gospel” that the restoration saints would reject.

Grafting in the Natural Branches

The missionary work that began taking place across the great waters AFTER the Gentiles had rejected the fullness, resulted in the grafting in of the natural branches as documented in the book of Jacob.

As a result of this interim missionary work, tens of thousands of converts began to come to the knowledge of the fulness of the Gospel that is contained in the Book of Mormon.

First they began to flow into Nauvoo. Later they would flow into Utah.

The prophet Joseph Smith clarified that the Elders being sent to foreign lands were engaged in seeking a different tribal demographic that those of Joseph and Eprhaim that had mingled among the Gentiles. He identified them as the Outcasts of Israel and the Dispersed of Judah,

“If there is anything calculated to interest the mind of the Saints, to awaken in them the finest sensibilities, and arouse them to enterprise and exertion, surely it is the great and precious promises made by our heavenly Father to the children of Abraham; and those engaged in seeking the outcasts of Israel, and the dispersed of Judah, cannot fail to enjoy the Spirit of the Lord and have the choicest blessings of Heaven rest upon them in copious effusions.” (Joseph Smith Jr., Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 195. )

In previous posts we have discussed how the tribal demographics of the restored church began to change once the saints of the restored church rejected the fulness of the Gospel and the dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham was secretly ushered in.

In fulfillment of ancient prophecy, Joseph Smith was beginning to re-established the House of David and the kingdom of Israel 

gospel taken to house of Israel

(Pic taken from the Book, Solving the Prophet Puzzle)

Many of the early Gentile Kirtland saints who were remnants of the tribe of Joseph, who had mingled among the gentiles, began to fall away from the church after the attempt at consecration and Zion failed. Others left the church during the Nauvoo period as a result of the succession crisis.

Nevertheless, the new converts to the church from across the great waters, of the dispersed of Judah and the outcasts of Israel began flooding into Nauvoo as a result of the secret ushering in of the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham and the secret bestowal of the keys of the gathering from Moses.

The book of Mormon informs us that the “Jews” that would gather to America and be united with the gentile church would only “begin to believe” in Christ:

7 And it shall come to pass that the Jews which are scattered also shall begin to believe in Christ; and they shall begin to gather in upon the face of the land; and as many as shall believe in Christ shall also become a delightsome people. 2 Nephi 30:7

The reason that the dispersed of Judah were only being given the KNOWLEDGE of the fullness, instead of actually entering into the fullness of the covenant, is because their New Testament fathers had rejected the covenant, placing the salvation of the gentiles before them. They would need to wait until the “times of the Gentiles” comes in again before they would be able to accept the fullness.

It is important to understand that Joseph Smith Jr., the covenant servant of the Lord, needed to make an intercession for God’s apostate people once they rejected the fulness of the Gospel.

This resulted in something new needing to be done for the temporal salvation of the church. It resulted in a secret appearance of Christ, Moses, Elias, and Elijah. This event that took place in the Kirtland Temple on April 3 1836, resulted in the keys of the Gathering of Israel being transferred from Moses to Joseph and Oliver.

The Dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham initiated the taking of the knowledge of the fulness of the gospel to the latter day Jews that Joseph Smith referred to as the “dispersed of Judah”.

It began a “little season” of learning and chastisement for God’s people who needed to wait until the final restoration of all things when God’s covenant servant would return to complete his commission and set up a standard for the Gentiles to come to.

Nearly one decade after Joseph Smith Jr. had informed a newspaper editor Noah Saxton in 1833, that the judgments of God were to soon fall upon the nations, requiring the elect of God to accept the fullness of the Gospel and flee to Zion, he wrote another letter to newspaper editor John Wentworth in 1842.

In the letter he detailed the rise of the Church of Christ in the latter days in which no mention of pending judgments was acknowledged.

Indeed, the narrative was that the new missionary work to foreign nations would continue on despite religious persecution until the truth of God has sounded in every ear and the purposes of God have been accomplished.

“Persecution has not stopped the progress of truth, but has only added fuel to the flame, it has spread with increasing rapidity, proud of the cause which they have espoused and conscious of their innocence and of the truth of their system amidst calumny and reproach have the elders of this church gone forth, and planted the gospel in almost every state in the Union; it has penetrated our cities, it has spread over our villages, and has caused thousands of our intelligent, noble, and patriotic citizens to obey its divine mandates, and be governed by its sacred truths.

It has also spread into England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales: in the year of 1839 where a few of our missionaries were sent over five thousand joined the standard of truth,there are numbers now joining in every land.
Our missionaries are going forth to different nations, and in Germany, Palestine, New Holland, the East Indies, and other places, the standard of truth has been erected:

 no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing, persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done.

What happed to the desolating scourge that was falling upon the nation and the need to quickly flee to Zion?

The answer is that Joseph Smith made an atonement offering intercession for latter day Israel just as Moses had made an atonement offering intercession for ancient Israel when God was about to wipe ancient Israel off the face of the earth.

general timeline intercession 2

 

This radical change in tone and message from the Sexton Letter in 1833 to the Wentworth Letter in 1842, is evidence that the pending judgments of God that were speedily approaching in 1833, had been adverted by the intercession that had been made.

The Final Restoration Comes through the Gentiles

The Book of Mormon agrees with the New Testament and the D&C about the Gospel coming from the Gentiles to the rest of the world in the final restoration.

Indeed, the title page of the Book of Mormon reveals that the sealed portion that was sealed up by the hand of Moroni, would eventually come forth and be interpreted by way of the Gentile

Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God.

The plates that were written, sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord by the hand of Moroni will come forth.. BY WAY OF THE GENTILE.

The above passage is literally speaking of the final time that the sealed portion comes forth and translated, not just the preliminary time that Joseph Smith brought forth the unsealed portion.

Lest you think that the title page is just Joseph Smith’s opinion, this is what Joseph Smith informs us about the title page

“the title-page of the Book of Mormon is a literal translation, taken from the very last leaf, on the left hand side of the collection or book of plates, which contained the record which has been translated, the language of the whole running the same as all Hebrew writing in general; and that said title page is not by any means a modern composition, either of mine or of any other man who has lived or does live in this generation” (History of the Church, 1:71).

Joseph Smith wanted us to know that the declaration in the title page of the Book of Mormon about the sealed plates coming forth for the last time from the Gentile, was not a speculative commentary on his part. It was a “literal translation, taken from the very last leaf, on the left hand side of the collection or book of plates”

With that in mind, lets take a look at 1st Nephi 14:1-2

1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks

2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.

The Stumbling Blocks will Be Taken Away from the Believing Gentiles

It is at the very end of the 2nd invitation that the Gentiles repent and have their stumbling blocks taken away! That is the day of POWER when the fullness of the priesthood is restored to the earth. We have not yet arrived at that last part of the second invitation.

The parable of the Olive Trees in Jacob informs us that God’s repentant Gentile servants from the 2nd Watch, will return to the vineyard with the Lord of the vineyard in the third watch. (See Jacob 5:70-72)

The Word went forth During Joseph’s First Commission
The Fulness of Power Emerges During Joseph’s Second Commission

The above passages reveal that AFTER the “WORD” has gone forth during Joseph Smith’s first ministry, it will finally go forth in “POWER” and in “VERY DEED” at a later time.

(Helaman 10:5-6 informs us that being mighty “in word and in deed” means having fullness of priesthood power wherein you can command the elements)

It is at that day that the righteous gentiles of the 2nd watch return, that the unrighteous Gentiles of our generation will have the opportunity to repent and be gathered in with the repentant seed of Lehi and perhaps other remnants of the House of Israel.
gospel of abraham

(Pic taken from the Book, Solving the Prophet Puzzle)

A contextual Book of Mormon keyword search of the word “deed” links the above time when the word goes forth in power and deed to the mighty servant of the Lord mentioned in 2nd Nephi 3:24

24 And there shall rise up one mighty among them, who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren.

Clearly, the above passage is simply reiterating that Joseph the Seer who is previously detailed in that chapter, is the one that brings forth the work in both word and power and deed. A careful study of the “Joseph the Seer” narrative in 2nd Nephi 3 and JST Genesis reveals that it is not referring to Joseph’s ministry in the 1800’s. It is referring to a future ministry when he confounds all false doctrines establishes peace and completely restores Israel.

Sadly, many students of the Book of Mormon can’t see the connection and they assume that the servant being spoken of in 2nd Nephi 3:24 is someone other than Joseph the Seer. They often assume that it is some Jew or Lamanite that comes to complete the work that Joseph the Gentile Seer began.

Since “Berger” is probably a Jewish name (Ashkenazi), Mauricio may be deluded into thinking that he is the servant mentioned in the above passage.

The Term Gentile Can be Confusing

One of the confusing issues that needs to be parsed out when reading the book of Mormon relative to the role of the Gentiles in the end times is that the term Gentile is used in numerous ways. Context is everything.

First of all, the Book of Mormon differentiates between the  “believing” and “unbelieving” Gentiles.

Secondly, sometimes times the believing Gentiles are righteous, other times they stumble and fall into apostasy.

Thirdly, sometimes the Gentiles of Joseph Smith’s era are being referenced while other times the Gentiles of our era are being referenced.

Lastly, and perhaps this is one of the most confusing things, sometimes the narrative has to do with the repentant Gentiles of the LDS restoration movement (known as the first laborers of the last kingdom) are returning to preach to the wicked Gentiles of our time!

Mauricio’s Narrative is not Congruent with the Scriptures

As you can see, the true prophetic narrative documented in scripture and the history of the LDS restoration regarding what actually took place during Joseph Smith’s first ministry and what will take place in the future, is quite different from the prophetic narrative that Elder Smith, Seventy Moore, and Mauricio Berger are postulating.

They have a very convoluted and incorrect view of the Gentile and they do not understand the role of the Gentile in the last and final work of restoration

God’s covenant  servant, Joseph Smith Jr., who was identified with the gentiles (D&C 109:6 ) is going to return and complete his commission. This is what the unconditional promises and prophesies in the Doctrine and Covenants proclaim

The First (Jew) Shall be Last and the Last (Gentile) Shall be First

One of the most prolific passages to explain that the first records (Bible) come forth from the Jews, and the LAST RECORDS come forth through the Gentile is found in 1 Nephi 13.

It begins by noting that the Gentiles who attempted to bring forth Zion during the first commission of Joseph Smith Jr., will endure to the end and be lifted up at the last day.

They will eventually publish peace and stand upon the mountains.

It informs us that the first records that come forth from the Jews (the Old and New Testaments) will be followed by all of the LAST RECORDS that will be brought forth by the Gentiles. (Including the sealed portion)

Notice that the final records finally CONVINCE the Gentiles of the truth :

37 And blessed are they [the Gentiles] who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they shall have the gift and the power of the Holy Ghost; and if they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb; and whoso shall publish peace, yea, tidings of great joy, how beautiful upon the mountains shall they be.

38 And it came to pass that I beheld the remnant of the seed of my brethren, and also the book of the Lamb of God, [The Bible] which had proceeded forth from the mouth of the Jew, that it came forth from the Gentiles unto the remnant of the seed of my brethren.

39 And after it had come forth unto them I beheld other books, which came forth by the power of the Lamb, from the Gentiles unto them, unto the convincing of the Gentiles and the remnant of the seed of my brethren, and also the Jews who were scattered upon all the face of the earth, that the records of the prophets and of the twelve apostles of the Lamb are true.

40 And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records, which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which are of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved.

41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

42 And the time cometh that he shall manifest himself unto all nations, both unto the Jews and also unto the Gentiles; and after he has manifested himself unto the Jews and also unto the Gentiles, then he shall manifest himself unto the Gentiles and also unto the Jews, and the last shall be first, and the first shall be last.

The Jews were the first to receive the invitation and the Gentiles second.

Both groups stumbled

The Gentiles of Ephraim and Joseph will be the first to collectively enter into covenant and gather to Zion, the Jews will be second to enter into a Gospel Covenant and gather to the “Old Jerusalem” that is located in America. (See Doctrine and Covenants 133:13 and Ether 13:10-11)

Again, the Jews are not allowed to enter into covenant until after the Gentiles do. This is why the Jews that began to believe during the Nauvoo era were only given the KNOWLEDGE of the fullness instead of the fullness. They will not collectively be allowed to enter into a Gospel covenant until AFTER the Gentiles have collectively entered into the fullness of the Gospel covenant. I will be dedicating a post to elaborate on that issue.

Many latter day saints erroneously assume that the prophecies about “establishing of the truth of the Bible” and eliminating “contention” was fulfilled when the first portion of the Book of Mormon came forth during Joseph first ministry.

This is not true because there is still confusion and contention even among the latter day saints and the factions of the RLDS church.

The following passage from 1st Nephi 3:11-13 reveals that it is the Seer Joseph Smith Jr., that will ultimately bring forth the final records that will confound all of the false doctrines, lay down all contentions, and establishing peace.  That certainly has not happened yet and will not happen until Joseph the Seer returns and his weakness has been made strong:

11 But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them.

12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

13 And out of weakness he shall be made strong, in that day when my work shall commence among all my people, unto the restoring thee, O house of Israel, saith the Lord..

The only way for the above prophecy to come to pass and for Joseph Smith Jr. to bring forth all of the last records so that all false doctrines and contentions will be done away with, is for him to return and for the unconditional promises and prophesied in the Doctrine and Covenants to come to pass.

It is quite remarkable and tragic that Elder Joseph Smith and all of the other high profile descendants of Joseph Smith Jr. that I am aware of reject the notion that their progenitor Joseph Smith Jr. is going to return and complete is commission and the prophecies about him.

If you reject the scriptures that came forth through Joseph Smith the Gentile Seer, then you have denied revelation and have rejected the divine calling of God’s servant and the LDS restoration movement and you may as well become a protestant sect just like the Community of Christ has done.

More serious inconsistencies in the Mauricio claims to come

Keep Watching

 

 


Weighed in the Balance and Found Wanting: The Claims of Mauricio Berger

November 20, 2017

rejected

Ok, my turn.

I want to thank all of the respondents who submitted their emotional responses and their “strong reasons” based on scripture for believing or disbelieving the claims of Mauricio.

Let me begin by saying that if I were to judge the claims of Mauricio Berger based on the apparent sincerity, humility and integrity of Elder Joseph Smith and Seventy Bob Moore, I would probably gladly accept the veracity of the prophetic narrative they are bearing witness to.

But that is not how I judge the truthfulness of these kinds of claims.

It is easy to get sidetracked by hyper focusing on sincerity, and good honest intentions. It is also easy to focus on whether the meeting took place in Brazil and whether a person named Mauricio produced some tangible items for Elder Smith and Seventy Moore to see and hold.

Those events are very believable to me and in my opinion, probably did take place.

But that is a very small aspect of the issue at hand.

In fact, it is almost insignificant if you consider the fact that the originating story teller is a mysterious person that we have not been able to meet or hear for ourselves.

So far, we have not even heard him testify on video or seen pictures of the artifacts. Even if Mauricio did have some artifacts given to him by messengers from another realm, the next question has to do with whether they were angels of darkness or light. Satan can send angels of light and produce miraculous counterfeits.  (see 2 Corinthians 11:14)

Joseph Smith’s First Vision was Not Unique

Several decades ago while I was doing some research in the LDS Church Historical Library, I came upon some old newspaper articles that were written just PRIOR to Joseph Smith’s first vision experience.

These articles contained the testimonies of others who claimed to have seen God and were told that their generation needed to repent. They had a shockingly similar narrative to the first vision story that Joseph Smith would eventually tell. If my memory serves me correctly, these people were considered humble and sincere by those that knew them.

At first glance this information kind of unnerved me. Upon further reflection, it made perfect sense.

Satan usually creates lots of confusion and deception just prior to God’s work going forth. Joseph Smith warned that-

“false prophets always arise to oppose the true prophets, and they will prophesy so very near the truth that they will deceive almost the very chosen ones–“

Satan loves to pray upon the humble, simple, honest men of integrity who are not very knowledgeable. He can do this because they are often extremely gullible.

Section 76 notes that it is the “honorable men of the earth who are deceived by the craftiness of men” (and also easily deceived by Satan, I might add.)

We live in interesting times of deception

During the last few decades we have witnessed numerous people make astonishing claims.  Jim Harmston began proclaiming himself to be the reincarnation of Joseph Smith. He finally graduated to being  God the Father in the flesh.

Sterling Allen came along after that and also claimed to be the Father. His claim was much more colorful as he openly proclaimed that he was suffering from a lust addiction.

We have seen people like Robert Crossfield and Art Bulla bring forth additional “thus sayeth the Lord” revelations.

Christopher Nemelka, who claims to be the reincarnation of Hyrum Smith has brought forth what he claims to be the sealed portion.

Then there is Denver Snuffer, who by revelation from the Most High has been designated as “David“.

This Davidic Servant and his disciples have determined that the scriptures that Joseph Smith brought forth (and were sustained by the church), have not been kept pure and thus, are not credible and sufficient. Hence, he and his followers have decided to revamp them with Snuffer’s own teachings and revelations included in the revised editions. The LDS churches attempt to silence Snuffer when he began crossing the line fell on the deaf ears of a ginormous ego.

The Meteoric Rise and Fall of Mike Stroud

Mike Stroud is a dynamic gospel doctrine teacher who has been studying and teaching the gospel for 30 years. He has risen to fame in what he refers to as the “remnant movement” and his podcast enjoys literally thousands of visitors.

He has made some pretty outrageous claims about translated beings walking around, the visitation of angels and his communications with “holy men”. He has spoken of the church only being an Aaronic institution and has referred to the Snufferites as good people who he cannot condemn.

I blogged about him and the bifurcated remnant movement a few weeks ago. Another person at wheat and tares also blogged about him as well.

It is not clear whether those two blog posts were instrumental in bringing his notoriety and teachings to the attention of the brethren or not. However, he has been paid a visit from people in high places and has been silenced.

He has now offered a very contrite and humble public apology for some of the things he has taught and he has taken his podcast down.

                  Elder Joseph Smith, Seventy Bob Moore and Mauricio Berger

We now have some new players claiming that the tangible gold plates have been returned to the earth by the angel Moroni. They are essentially claiming to be God’s representatives in ushering in the Marvelous Work. They come to us from our brethren of the LDS Reorganization in conjunction with a mysterious foreigner that we have not yet had the opportunity to  meet or listen to.

Nobody would be happier for the Marvelous Work to begin than me.

I have been waiting and watching for this event for a long time.

Elder Joseph Smith, a direct descendent of our beloved Joseph Smith Jr., and his spokesman, Seventy Bob Moore, have testified that a mysterious person in Brazil has shown them the Gold Plates, Interpreters and the Sword of Laban.

How can we know if they are telling the truth?

How To Avoid Being Deceived

If you do a keyword search in the scriptures about how to avoid being deceived, you will find some really good admonitions.

One is found in Section 43

3 And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.

4 But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.

5 And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments;

6 And this I give unto you that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me.

7 For verily I say unto you, that he that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before, to teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed.

It is a serious thing to accept the teachings and commandments of a person who claims to be God’s servant if he has not come in through the “gate” that is being spoken of in the above passages. One is actually violating a LAW of God when one accepts the teachings of a revelatory imposter as if they are true commandments from the Lord.

One of my favorite set of declarations about the coming deception and how to avoid it is found in JST Matt 24

5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;

6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am Christ—and shall deceive many,, 9 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many..

22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant…

37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

He who has treasured up the word of God will not be deceived.

One of the reasons why I invited my readers to submit their assessments of the claims that are being made is because I wanted everyone to have the experience of discerning the claims based on their knowledge of the scriptures that they have read, studied, searched, pondered and treasured up.

It is my hope that this exercise has been a sobering experience that will motivate people to recommit to searching the scriptures at an even deeper level.

In Acts 17 we are informed that the “more noble” of the saints were those that “searched the scriptures daily”:

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The next set of passages I want to spotlight are found in Section 45

56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

 

I believe the above passage is greatly misunderstood and actually becomes a stumbling block for many.

Have You Taken the Holy Spirit As Your Guide?

While there is always some level of personal revelation that is available to us through the light of Christ and the intermittent visitations of the Holy Ghost, I have come to believe that the term “taking the Holy Spirit as you guide” probably means something different than most people assume.

You will notice from the above passages that those that take the Holy Spirit as their guide, have done so at the completion point of the literal fulfillment of the parable of the Ten Virgins.

We have not reached that time in history yet.

I believe that taking the Holy Spirit as you guide may actually have to do with a state of being that is only enjoyed AFTER a person receives the Gift of the Holy Ghost from the true servants that will be returning with the fullness of the priesthood.

I believe that signs will follow those that have received of the fullness. (kjkj

Three Different and Distinct Potential Deception Points

It is easy to get sucked into the emotion and drama of what is being presented by Elder Smith, Seventy Moore and brother Mauricio Berger. But it is critical to remember that there are three different and distinct possible deception points to this story.

telling the truth

While few people appear to question the sincerity of Elder Smith and Seventy Moore, there are still two big questions left to answer.

Is the mysterious Mauricio fabricating the story?

And even if he sincerely got the artifacts from an angel, was the angel sent from God or from the dark side?

Using the Scriptures as the Measuring Yardstick

The truth is that you cannot rely strictly on a person’s testimony when discerning something of this nature.

One must rely on the prophetic template provided in the Holy and Infallible word of God.

So let’s review the prophetic narrative that Elder Smith and Seventy Moore are promoting and see if it fits with what has been revealed in the scriptures.

My contention is that the prophetic scenario being presented, represents a radical departure from the prophetic narrative in scripture. It simply does not square with what the Lord and His prophets have promised us will take place.

I realize that many people do not take the unconditional promises and prophesies contained in the revelations received by Joseph Smith seriously. Many doubt that God’s prophesies in modern revelation will be fulfilled. They think that God really doesn’t know for sure how things will play out and that he is just prognosticating what he thinks and hopes might take place based on his past experience.

I disagree.

The God I worship has all time, past, present and future continually before his eyes and he knows what will happen in the future because he has seen it.

He does not live in time, he lives in eternity.

He does not lie or make mistakes when giving unconditional promises about the future.

Furthermore, the prophesies contained in the Bible and Book of Mormon also testify against the prophetic narrative being presented.

With that in mind, let’s review the prophetic narrative that we are getting from Joseph, Bob, and the mysterious Mauricio to see if it squares with the promises and prophecies in the word of God.

The “Second Invitation”

I have provided below, a screen print of the “Second Invitation” page that has been published to keep people informed about this work.

second invitation 2

I must admit that the bold title of “Second Invitation” followed by the supporting scriptural passage just below it,  is a powerful synopsis of the prophetic narrative that they are bearing testimony to:

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. (Matt 22:8)

The scriptures do indeed inform us that there would be two invitations extended and that the first call will be rejected and a second call would be extended to and accepted by a different group of people.

The passage that is being quoted appears to crystalize and support the message that Elder Smith, Seventy Moore, and Mauricio Berger are spreading, namely that the LDS Gentile restoration through the ministry of Joseph Smith Jr failed to bring forth the redemption of Zion. The invitation that was sent during Joseph’s ministry was not accepted.

We gentiles of the LDS restoration find ourselves in a state of disunity and confusion nearly 200 years after the first vision and the preaching of the restored gospel (invitation) that followed.

We now find ourselves in a state of hidden darkness wherein we think we are so enlightened even though we are devoid of the spiritual gifts that always testify of Gods true church.  Many, including myself, believe the heavens have been sealed shut until the true servants return.

The Old Testament foretold that God’s people would forsake and break the covenant in the latter days causing the Lord to hide his face from us for a season:

16 ¶ And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods. (Deut 31:16-18)

Arguably there is not one single “righteous” gentile for God to continue the work through.

Logically it makes sense that God would now call a more righteous group of people to begin the Marvelous Work with.

Apparently, Elder Joseph Smith warned the Gentiles of the restoration 21 years ago that they had a small window of opportunity to step through in which to accept the first invitation and unify and build up the kingdom of God. This is his claim:

Some​ ​of​ ​you​ ​who​ ​don’t​ ​know​ ​me​ ​too​ ​well,​ ​I’ve​ ​worked​ ​for​ ​21 years​ ​to​ ​bring​ ​the​ ​saints​ ​together.​ ​I​ ​started​ ​with​ ​the​ ​Waldo​ ​Sermon.​ ​21​ ​years​ ​ago​ ​wherein​ ​the Lord​ ​told​ ​them​ ​they​ ​had​ ​a​ ​window​ ​of​ ​opportunity​ ​to​ ​step​ ​through,​ ​lay​ ​aside​ ​their​ ​differences,​ ​find common​ ​ground,​ ​and​ ​begin​ ​to​ ​build​ ​up​ ​the​ ​kingdom​ ​of​ ​God.​ ​​ ​And​ ​for​ ​the​ ​most​ ​part,​ ​it​ ​went​ ​in one​ ​ear​ ​and​ ​out​ ​the​ ​other.​ ​And​ ​this​ ​is​ ​what​ ​he​ ​[Moroni​ ​or​ ​Mauricio]​ ​is​ ​referring​ ​to

Since we gentiles failed to respond to that first invitation, a second invitation is now being offered through a foreign people in a foreign land. At least, that is the narrative being offered.

According to the testimony of Mauricio, the marvelous work will now begin in Brazil, then fill all of Latin America and then central America and then at last, it will arrive once again in North America:

But​ ​there​ ​is​ ​no​ ​way​ ​to​ ​get​ ​​ ​your​ ​people​ ​back​ ​together​ ​in​ ​one​ ​flock​ ​in​ ​your​ ​country .​ ​For​ ​their​ ​is​ ​much​ ​strife​..​ ​​among​ ​the​ ​Latter-day​ ​Saints​ ​in regard​ ​to​ ​the​ ​other​ ​churches​ ​which​ ​in​ ​one​ ​have​ ​been​ ​divided​ ​into​ ​many.​ ​

But​ ​God​ ​will​ ​do it​ ​from​ ​Brazil​ ​until​ ​it​ ​fills​ ​all​ ​Latin​ ​America,​ ​Central,​ ​and​ ​finally​ ​to​ ​arrive​ ​again​ ​in​ ​the​ ​lands of​ ​the​ ​north​ ​where​ ​the​ ​people​ ​of​ ​the​ ​covenant​ ​is​ ​counted​ ​as​ ​being​ ​a​ ​great​ ​multitude.. (Statement made on Bob Moore’s Facebook page by Mauricio Berger)

Once again, to summarize the prophetic scenario being presented by Joseph, Bob, and Mauricio, the first invitation was extended through the prophet Joseph Smith Jr. and rejected by the saints of the LDS restoration.

Disgusted with us Gentiles, God has now chosen another people to extend the second invitation through. A more humble and teachable people located in Brazil is now being used to initiate the Lord’s work.

The marvelous work and a wonder will now proceed to fill the whole earth beginning in Brazil.

But wait a minute.

I see a huge problem with this storyline

It seems to me that the foundational scripture being used to synthesize and characterize the prophetic narrative being offered has been greatly misinterpreted.

Let’s securitize the scriptural premise that this story is predicated on.

Lets review once again the passage found in Matt 22 and get a little context.

The following passage and associated parable only shows up in one of the gospels.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

The parable is well known.

Few people disagree with the general interpretation.

You will recall that Jesus was addressing the wicked Jewish Chief Priests and Pharisees.

He was speaking to them in parable.

The parable revealed that there was going to be a great wedding feast and that just two invitations would be extended.

The parable informs us that the first invitation will be rejected. The second will be accepted.

The Jews Rejected the Invitation, The Gentiles will Accept it

The parable reveals that the first invitation was given to the JEWS (Remnants from the ancient Kingdom of Judah)

They collectively rejected it by rejecting Christ.

After they rejected it, the invitation was extended to the Gentiles (the scattered remnants of the ancient Kingdom of Israel)

THE PARABLE INFORMS US THAT THE GENTILES  WILL CONTAIN BOTH GOOD AND EVIL,

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests

NEVERTHELESS, THEY WILL ACCEPT THE INVITATION TO ATTEND THE FEAST!

That’s right, according to God’s holy and infallible word in parable and other supporting scripture, the Jews collectively rejected the first invitation and the Gentiles and a few other stragglers will ultimately accept the second invitation.

That is the simple and unmistakable message given in the parable.

Perhaps one of the most notable confirmations and summations of what the parable meant, was revealed by Paul and Barnabas in their response to the envious Jews when they saw the gospel invitation being extended to the Gentiles:

45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

It would appear that the “invitation to the wedding” refers to the “word of God” that contained the good news of the gospel covenant and a literal gathering.

Paul informs us that the first invitation to the Jews was rejected. It was followed by an invitation to the Gentiles. The Book of Mormon reiterates that Gentiles that repent are the covenant people of the Lord and Jews who do not ultimately repent will be cast off-

“For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel” (2 Ne. 30:2).

As you can see, Elder Moore’s use of the parable in Matthew 22 to support his “second invitation” storyline is extremely problematic.

He is superimposing a false interpretation upon the prophetic parable.

Joseph Smith Jr.’s ministry and the LDS restoration movement that began in about 1830 did not represent the first invitation that is mentioned in the parable.

I believe it actually represents an extension of the second invitation to the New Testament Gentiles that was extended through the New Testament apostles.

The Jews Rejected the Covenant- The Gentiles Accept it

Joseph Smith Jr. revealed that the difference between the first invitation to the Jews and the second invitation to the Gentiles is that the Jews of the New Testament collectively never entered into covenant. Converselythe Gentiles of the New Testament did!

This  covenant has never been established with the house of Israel nor with th[e] house of Judah for it requires two parties to make a covenant and those  two parties must be agreed or no covenant can be made.

Christ in the  days of his flesh proposed to make a covenant with them but they rejected  him and his proposals and in consequence thereof they were broken off  and no covenant was made with them at that time but their unbelief  has not rendered the promise of God of none effect..

Thus after this chosen family had rejected Christ  and his proposals the heralds of salvation said to them. “lo  I we turn <un>to the gentiles,” and the gentiles received the covenant and  were grafted in from whence the chosen family were broken off (Saxton Letter)

The Gentiles Stumble

It is fascinating to realize that even though there were some individual Gentile saints of the New Testament Church that were “ordained to eternal life“, the scriptures inform us that collectively, the Gentile church during New Testament times, as well as the restored Gentile church in 1830, would temporarily stumble and fall into apostasy. (1 Nephi 13:29,34 2 Nephi 26:20)

Even though the scriptures inform us that the Gentiles will stumble, they also inform us that towards the end of the “days of the Gentiles“, the “times of the Gentiles” will be ushered in again and they will repent.

And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel; (D&C 45: 28)

The believing Gentiles will become clean and sanctified in the Lord:

For the Lord said unto me: They [the ancient records] shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.

And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are. (Ether 4:6-7)

[thankfully, a great mystery is revealed in both the New Testament and the Book of Mormon informing us that in the latter days, the Jews that begin to repent shall be gathered in.

And the day that he shall set his hand again the second time to recover his people, is the day, yea, even the last time, that the servants of the Lord shall go forth in his power, to nourish and prune his vineyard” (see Romans 11:25-27 & Jacob 4-6)]

The purpose of this blog post is to show what the scriptures tell us about the gentiles so that we can see that the claims of Mauricio are NOT congruent with God’s holy word.

“The Last Days” = “The Days of the Gentiles”

The Book of Mormon reveals that the term “last days” is synonymous with the term “days of the Gentiles” (not to be confused with the term “times of the Gentiles“)

1 But, behold, in the last days, or in the days of the Gentiles—yea, behold all the nations of the Gentiles and also the Jews, both those who shall come upon this land and those who shall be upon other lands, yea, even upon all the lands of the earth, behold, they will be drunken with iniquity and all manner of abominations— 2 Nephi 27:1

The New Testament Apostles Announced the Beginning of the “Last Days”

Following the resurrection of Christ the New Testament Apostles were given the commission to take the gospel to the gentiles. At this time, both Paul and Peter made statements declaring that they had entered into the “last days“, or “last times“.

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Hebrews 1:1-2

 

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Peter 1:19-20

Some people erroneously assume that the “last days” did not begin until some time after the dark ages ended. For this reason they are critical of those declarations by Paul and Peter, assuming that they were mistaken.

The truth is that Christ’s apostles knew exactly what they were talking about and were speaking under the influence of the Spirit.

The “last days“, “last times” and “days of the Gentiles” began at the time of the resurrection of Christ when the Gospel was taken to the Gentiles and the invitation to the Gentiles continues in waves, until the restitution of all things.

It was directly AFTER the Jewish nation rejected the first invitation and crucified Christ,  that the messianic era began and the second invitation was extended to the Gentiles.

According to Jewish tradition the probationary period of this earth was to last for 6,000 years divided into three increments. Each increment has a two thousand year duration.

Here are two translations from the Talmud:

‘It was taught in the school of Elijah: The world will endure 6000 years — 2,000 years in chaos, 2,000 years with Torah, and 2,000 years will be the days of the Messiah’ (‘Talmud,’ Sanh.97a).

The Tanna debe Eliyyahu teaches: The world is to exist six thousand years. In the first two thousand there was desolation;  two thousand years the Torah flourished; and the next two thousand years is the Messianic era (Babylonian Talmud: Sanhedrin 97a).

The prophet Hosea appears to agree with the three, two thousand year increments.

He refers to these 2,000 year increments as “days“, giving descriptives to identify what takes place in the first and third days-

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. Hosea 5:15, 6:1-4

According to Hosea, during the first “day“, his people were “torn”.

Eventually the kingdom of Israel was created from the posterity of Jacob (Israel) (The second Kingdom of Israel would eventually mingle among the Gentiles, and the Kingdom of Judah, who would become known as the Jews)

Both Tribal demographics go into apostasy.

The promise is that the two divided kingdoms led by Ephraim and Judah would one day acknowledge their offence and seek the face of the Lord.

Hosea notes that AFTER the first two “days” God would revive them.

It would be in the beginning of the third “day” that the second invitation was to initially be sent forth to the Gentiles and other remnants of Israel by the New Testament Apostles.

In the third “day” those that accept the covenant will be revived and “raised up” to live in his sight..

three days 6

As you can see, the first two days (four thousand years) came to an end when the Jews collectively rejected the Gospel invitation and crucified Christ.

Following the resurrection of Christ, the second invitation was extended to the Gentiles. Peter and Paul fully understood this and that is why they accurately declared that they were living in the “last days” and the “last times“.

Three Separate and Distinct Waves of the Second Invitation

Up to this point, we have used ancient scripture to document that the “last days” and the “Days of the Gentiles” began directly after Christ’s resurrection when the New Testament apostles began extending the second invitation to the Gentiles. The “day” of the Gentiles lasts for two thousand years and culminates in the raising up of the elect.

Frankly, many Christian prophecy scholars are familiar with the fact that the last days and last times did in fact begin with the invitation to the Gentiles in the New Testament times.

But they don’t know the details of what takes place during the last two thousand years which is referred as the “last days” and the “last times“.

They are unfamiliar with the doctrine of the three watches. This is because they don’t have the Book of Mormon and the revelations that came through the instrumentality of the prophet Joseph Smith.

Modern Revelation Reveals the Secrets

The great secret of how the second invitation goes forth to the Gentiles three different an distinct times, can only be fully understood by those that accept the revelations that were brought forth by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

To me, it is a red flag that Elder Smith, Seventy Moore, and Mauricio Berger, do not quote from modern revelation very much if at all.

If they had treasured up the remarkable secrets revealed in modern revelation, they would not have been so deceived.

The following declarations by God regarding the prophetic content in the revelations he gave to Joseph Smith are as follows:

The voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days. And they shall go forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.

Behold this is my authority, and the authority of my servants and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth.

Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them (Joseph and his Brethren that published the revelations) shall be fulfilled…

Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled

..What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen. (D&C 1:3-7,37-39)

Elder Smith, Seventy Moore, and Mauricio Berger apparently do not believe in the “prophesies and promises” contained in the Doctrine and Covenants. It appears that they either don’t believe it, or they don’t take it seriously and literally.

The above passages are declaring that the founding fathers of the restored church that received and published the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants, will be the ones to return and gather God’s elect during the Marvelous Work and a Wonder.

Only those who have the faith to take the revelations that were received through Joseph Smith, seriously and literally are blessed with the ability to understand generally how things will unfold during the “last days” which are the “days of the Gentiles“.

Much of what we have covered in this blog during the last nine years (and in the book), has used the revelations received through Joseph Smith to establish the fact that the second invitation to the gentiles goes forth in three different and distinct waves of missionary work.

The first wave of the second invitation to the Gentiles began with the New Testament apostles.

Following the apostasy of the New Testament Gentile Church, Joseph Smith once again restored the church and extended the second invitation to the Gentiles of his day.

After the fullness was rejected by the latter day saints, Joseph Smith announced that something new must be done for the salvation of church and the apostles of the LDS restoration began an interim missionary work that was to last for a little season of learning and chastisement. We are still living during this little season.

During this time the KNOWLEDGE of the fullness gospel has been taken to the House of Israel.

According to Joseph Smith, remnants from the “dispersed of Judah” and the “outcasts of Israel”  began flowing into Nauvoo and eventually to Utah under the direction of Brigham Young and the quorum of the Twelve, while many if not most of the gentile saints of the Kirtland era chose to not follow Brigham Young and his brethren.

Because of this, there is a distinct difference between the tribal demographic of the Utah Saints and the branches of the restoration the came from the RLDS tradition.

The third and final wave of the second invitation is about to begin, as illustrated below-

first invitation 2

The yellow part of the graphic represents the two thousand year “day of the Gentiles”.

Clearly, the prophetic narrative being promoted by Smith, Moore and Mauricio is not congruent with the prophetic storyline contained in God’s holy word.

In future blog posts I will touch on some additional scriptural and prophetic problems with the claims that have been made by Mauricio Berger.

The Lord has promised that the records will come forth from the Gentiles to the rest of the world.

They will be translated by the Gentile Seer who has been given the proper keys and commission to do so.

The Marvelous Work and a Wonder will begin here in North America, currently the land of the Abrahamic Covenant .

I have previously provided 16 separate and distinct revelations pertaining to Joseph Smith Jr.’s commission to return to the earth and usher in the dispensation of the fullness of times. Our brethren of the restoration would do well to review them and do some soul searching about what they believe.

I invite Elder Smith, Seventy Moore, and Mauricio Berger to enter into a public dialogue with me to defend their claims and respond to the additional challenges that I will be providing to their claims.

 

Keep Watching

 


Weighed in the Balance: The Claims of Mauricio Berger- Part Two

November 15, 2017

You Heard About it First From the Watcher.. LOL

I first published a blog titled “Did the Marvelous Work Begin on April 6th 2007?” informing my readers about this event on October 31st.

On November 1st I published a follow up post on the topic because of the amount of interest the first blog gendered. In it I invited my readership to share their feelings and opinions about the testimonies of Elder Smith and Seventy Moore, promising to publish them on a future post.

On November 4th I published a post titled “Weighed in the Balance: The Claims of Mauricio” In it I briefly summarized  some of the views of the leaders of the movement  and catalogued the comments that had been sent in from my readers up to that point in time.

In this post, I am providing virtually all of the comments made by all of the respondents.

I typically get about a 10% response from readers when I ask for feedback on something. This exercise was not different. Out of about 200 subscribers, I have 22 respondents.

I want to thank everyone who took the time to respond.

In the final post of this series I will share my own opinion About the claims of Mauricio Berger with scriptures to support it.

Hopefully this will be an Exercise in Sobriety

One of the things that all of the commenters have in common is belief in LDS restoration movement and the coming forth of his Marvelous Work. We have all been anxiously waiting and watching for the events of the Lord’s coming as we have been admonished to do in scripture.

While it is a good thing to be waiting and watching, as the scriptures admonish us to be, the yearning inside for an anxiously anticipated event to happen can sometimes affect our judgment. That is something we need to be cautious about.

Another thing to be cautious about is if we have an expectation of how we think things will play out that is set in stone, we may be overly critical of a work that the Lord is overseeing. Just because we are familiar with the prophecies, does not mean that we understand them fully.

Realizing that most of the responders have been studying and pondering the scriptures and the history of the church for many years and have an above average understanding of the Marvelous Work that they have been anticipating, it should by sobering to all of us to see that there is no consensus as to whether these claims are true or not.

The vast majority of the responders, regardless of whether they have represented themselves as skeptics or believers, are still pondering and searching and have not reached a final decision on this matter.

I believe there is much we can all learn from this exercise.

Keeping My Ear to the Ground

You may have wondered how in the world I found out about a somewhat obscure meeting held in Independence MO within just hours of it being held.

Particularly when I was not even familiar with the RLDS faction that it took place among.

I have some dear friends that live in Missouri who have been patiently watching and waiting for the Marvelous Work to began nearly as long as we have. They somehow heard about the meeting and attended the evening session wherein the testimony of Seventy Bob Moore was given.

The wife of this couple is the one that contacted me by email. She is listed as respondent #1 in the listing of opinions that I will be providing in this post.

Interestingly, even though she initially seemed somewhat excited and hopeful, after pondering things over through the lens of modern revelation, she has since rejected the viability of Mauricio’s claims. Nevertheless, to my surprise, the larger portion of respondents from my blog readers seem to be embracing the claims as being true.

The Testimony is Going Viral

Prior to Elder Smith giving this testimony, the average number of views on the video channel of the Zarahemla Branch fluctuated between 30 and 60, with about 60 official followers. Nearly two weeks later, there have been over about 8,000 views!

Even though news of the testimony is going viral, acceptance of it among the differing factions of the RLDS branches seems to be struggling to gain any serious traction thus far from what I can gather. This is not surprising given the enmity that has existed because of differing interpretations on doctrine.

Besides, familiarity breads contempt.

I would guess that the percentage of believers among my readers is significantly higher than the percentage of believers among the RLDS factions in Missouri.

An Attempt to Not Prejudice You

By the time I got through listening to the testimonies of Elder Joseph Smith and Seventy Bob Moore, I had formulated a very strong opinion about the prophetic viability of the narrative they shared.

I began preparing a post to inform my readers about this most interesting and timely current event and share my opinion about the claims being made. However, that little voice inside my head told me to hold back my opinion and allow my readers to listen to the testimonies, evaluate them, and openly share their opinions BEFORE I present my conclusions.

This is what I have tried to do, even though my views should be obvious to my long time readers.

The Results are In

“Produce your cause, saith the Lord; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.” Isaiah 41:21 

 “Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.” D&C 78:8

As promised, I am now going to share the results of the survey I took regarding what I am going to call, for lack of a better term “The Claims of Mauricio Berger“.

This is going to be a long post because I am sharing the feedback of 22 people.

Although some of their remarks are short and to the point, some of their comments are long, involving multiple email exchanges.

Some of the emails will not make total sense because they are referencing some of my email responses to them which I do not want to post, for purposes of trying to save my own opinions and reasoning for the final post.

Realizing that some of my readers are not invested in this event enough to labor through all of the comments, I am going to first provide a chart that places the opinions of each respondent in one of three categories.

In the chart below I have assigned a number to each commenter to provide anonymity and to show the order in which the comments came in.

In the chart, the M and F refer to the gender of the commenter.

The asterisk represents those who seemed to change their opinion or fluctuate widely in their opinion.

The word “Correspondence” identifies those that have personally made contact with Elder Smith, or Seventy Moore, or one of the leaders of the Zarahemla Branch. I suspect that some of my commenters have offered financial assistance while others that speak the language have offered to go to Brazil as interpreters.

It would not surprise me at all if one or two of my readers were to become one of the additional six witnesses that are to be called to visit Brazil and meet Mauricio and see the plates.

summary box 2

Obviously, the “not sure but hopeful” category covers a very broad spectrum.

At one end of the spectrum are those that mostly believe but are still processing the information and waiting for additional information and confirmation before they fully commit as a believer.

At the other end of the spectrum there are those that are very skeptical but cannot bring themselves to completely deny it.

I want to apologize in advance for any mistakes and misrepresentation I may have made in cataloguing your comments.

I have tried to remove all names to provide anonymity and have taken the liberty of editing some of the emails when sensitive information was involved.

Group Decision Making

I am providing this feedback from respondents because I think it is informative and might be helpful to those who are trying to sort all of this out.

Some of the responders shared opinions that seemed to be based solely on  “feelings” they got when they shared their testimonies, others backed up their opinions with scripture.

Years ago, Mrs Watcher shared an experience that she had trying to discern the truthfulness of something without studying it out first in God’s holy word. The experience was quite frightening and sobering. If you have not read her story, I would encourage you to do so.

“I will tell you in your mind and in your heart”

As you can see from the chart above, a clear consensus has not been reached nor would it make any difference if one had been made. The ability to discern the Lord’s work should never be left up to others. We must all stand or fall on our own ability top receive personal revelation. Discerning the truth for an individual has never been a democratic process

Democracy is not how revelation works.

I took a course on “group decision making” during the short time I was in college and it was fascinating to see the dynamic and associated challenges of trying to reach a group consensus. Just ask the Snufferites who are experiencing the frustrating challenge of making group decisions.

During the LDS restoration, the process ordained by God was for the Lord to give council and instructions through his designated prophet. Once the revelation was received and made public, the primary purpose of the vote of common consent, in my opinion,  was-

1) to provide a checks and balances method of identifying a false revelation, and

2) to bind the saints and make them accountable once they raised their hands in support of the revelation and any counsel and instructions contained therein.

The Sincerity and honesty of Elder Smith
and Seventy Moore has not been Challenged

It is interesting that most of the respondents believe that Smith and Moore are sincere and honest people who truly believe what they are saying. It is generally believed that the trip did take place, Mauricio does exist, and the artifacts in question were seen and held.

 

Respondant #1

Just a quick note to share a link with you guys. 
av.zarahemlabranch.org/w/josephbrazil

This is a link to two meetings held at the Zarahemla Branch Church in Independence, MO Sunday October, 29, 2017.

We were notified of the evening meeting late in the afternoon and made the trip to Independence to hear the details of a report of Joseph Smith, a descendant of Joseph Smith, Jr. and Bob Moore, of their recent trip to Brazil.
A report that entails a visit from the angel Moroni, the Gold Plates, the Interpreters and the sword of Laban.

Thought you would find this an interesting listen.  We haven’t listened to the morning meeting yet but it is in our plans when Steven finishes the  cold frames in the Greenhouse as it will be very cold tonight.

We love you guys and pray that God is watching over you and your family while you are watching and waiting for the Third Watch Marvelous Work!

Your fellow watchers & waiters

Follow up email

I have been giving a great deal of thought and made it a matter of prayer, about this new information that has been delivered by Joseph Smith & Bob Moore..  I applaud the humility & sincerity of Joseph Smith & brother Bob Moore in witnessing what they experienced in Brazil and what they have been instructed to do. 

However, the Spirit has previously witnessed to me through the scriptures that Joseph Smith, Jr. holds the keys of the kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fullness of times.(D& C 27:13)

13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;

And in D& C 90:2 (speaking to Joseph Smith, Jr.)

2 Therefore, thou art blessed from henceforth that bear the keys of the kingdom given unto you; which kingdom is coming forth for the last time.  3 Verily I say unto you, the keys of this kingdom shall never be taken from you, while thou art in the world, neither in the world to come;

Also in JST Genesis 50: 7-33 The lord speaks of a choice seer, in the last days,  that will be raised up who shall be like unto Moses. who will bring forth the word and then secondly to convince them of the word which shall have already gone forth among them.. 

vs. 30.  And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days; 

31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.

33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.

D& C 101: 43-61  Sets forth the parable of the vineyard, where in The Lord’s Servant is given specific instructions concerning the redemption of Zion. 

43. And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the redemption of Zion. 

44. A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants:   Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land….

55. And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his servants:  Go and gather together the residue of my servants…5

6.  And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; …

61 And this shall be my seal and blessing upon you…a faithful and wise steward in the midst of mine house, a ruler in my kingdom…and after many days all things were fulfilled.

In D& C 103:  Joseph Smith, Jr. is identified by the Lord as the servant of the vineyard in the previous parable. 

13…your redemption, and the redemption of your brethren, even their restoration to the land of Zion, to be established, no more to be thrown down…

14.  Behold I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power; 

16.  Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel. 

17.  For ye are the children of Isarel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched out arm. 

18. And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be. 

21.  Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun. is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

In addition to these scriptures in D& C 29 (which was given to Joseph Smith, Jr. and six elders)  They were given the charge to gather the elect. 

7. and ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine, elect; for mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts;

8 Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of this land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all thins against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked.  ….

10.  For the hour is nigh, and that which was spoken by mine apostles must be fulfilled; for as they spoke so shall it come to pass;

For some people this may all seem a mute point since Joseph Smith, Jr. was killed on June 27,1844.  But, the spirit has witnessed to me that Joseph Smith, Jr. will be raised up to complete the work that God has given him to do. 

He laid the foundation of the gospel, translated the Book of Mormon, brought forth many revelations from the Lord, identified where Zion would be built and revealed what would be required to establish Zion. 

We read of angels coming to visit the earth to assist with the marvelous work in the last days.  I believe that Joseph Smith, Jr. will be one of the chief among them.  (See D& C 103:11-21) 

11 But verily I say unto you, I have decreed that your brethren which have been scattered shall return to the lands of their inheritances, and shall build up the waste places of Zion. 

12 For after much tribulation, as I have said unto you in a former commandment, cometh the blessing.  

13 Behold, this is the blessing which I have promised after your tribulations, and the tribulations of your brethren—your redemption, and the redemption of your brethren, even their restoration to the land of Zion, to be established, no more to be thrown down.  

14 Nevertheless, if they pollute their inheritances they shall be thrown down; for I will not spare them if they pollute their inheritances.  

15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power; 

16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel. 

17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm. 

18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.  

19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.

20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.  

21 Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

So, I am looking for the return of the early saints as well as the return of Joseph Smith, Jr. to be restored to their lands which were purchased in Jackson County Missouri.  For Joseph to lead the redemption of Zion by Power and a stretched out arm.

My heart yearns for Zion, to be established in the heartland of America, in the state of Missouri, as God has instructed.  I for one know that God did not make a mistake, he did not change his mind about Joseph Smith.  And all that God has promised will be fulfilled concerning Joseph Smith, Jr.  Even if that means raising him up from the grave!!!!

Therefore, I can not put my support behind Brother Joseph Smith, the descendant of Joseph Smith, Jr. in this work to bring forth the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon, in Brazil. 

I do agree wholeheartedly that we here in America have a great need to repent!  That there are many humble people throughout the world who are seeking to do the will of the Lord.  

All the true in heart will be gathered to Zion.   But, I also feel that Satan is working over time to thwart the work of God.  He is the great deceiver.   

I wish that all of this information coming forth about the angel Moroni, the plates, the interpreters, and the sword of Laban were true. 

So, much of it rings true because we are waiting for additional scripture to be revealed, and for the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon to be translated, and for the establishment of Zion. 

But, in order to support this work I would have to deny what the Holy Spirit has witnessed to me, concerning the prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. and the keys and work that has been given to him.

There is also the priesthood authority question that looms huge for me as well.  According to D&C 124:28  the Lord makes it clear that the Saints had lost the fullness of the priesthood. (by 1841)

28 For there is not a place found on earth that he may come to and restore again that which was lost unto you, or which he hath taken away, even the fulness of the priesthood.

In order for the Priesthood to be restored the Saints were given the charge to build the Nauvoo Temple and the Nauvoo House, within the time given them.  If they would do it, then their baptisms, washings & annointings would be acceptable to the Lord and they would not be moved out of their place.
 
29 For a baptismal font there is not upon the earth, that they, my saints, may be baptized for those who are dead— 

30 For this ordinance belongeth to my house, and cannot be acceptable to me, only in the days of your poverty, wherein ye are not able to build a house unto me.  

31 But I command you, all ye my saints, to build a house unto me; and I grant unto you a sufficient time to build a house unto me; and during this time your baptisms shall be acceptable unto me. 

32 But behold, at the end of this appointment your baptisms for your dead shall not be acceptable unto me; and if you do not these things at the end of the appointment ye shall be rejected as a church, with your dead, saith the Lord your God. 

33 For verily I say unto you, that after you have had sufficient time to build a house to me, wherein the ordinance of baptizing for the dead belongeth, and for which the same was instituted from before the foundation of the world, your baptisms for your dead cannot be acceptable unto me;  

34 For therein are the keys of the holy priesthood ordained, that you may receive honor and glory. 

35 And after this time, your baptisms for the dead, by those who are scattered abroad, are not acceptable unto me, saith the Lord. 

36 For it is ordained that in Zion, and in her stakes, and in Jerusalem, those places which I have appointed for refuge, shall be the places for your baptisms for your dead. 

37 And again, verily I say unto you, how shall your washings be acceptable unto me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name?  

38 For, for this cause I commanded Moses that he should build a tabernacle, that they should bear it with them in the wilderness, and to build a house in the land of promise, that those ordinances might be revealed which had been hid from before the world was.      

45 And if my people will hearken unto my voice, and unto the voice of my servants whom I have appointed to lead my people, behold, verily I say unto you, they shall not be moved out of their place.

According to my understanding of these scriptures and of history.  They were moved out of their place, driven out of Nauvoo,  because they failed to live the Law of Consecration, build the temple & the Nauvoo House. 

The fulness of the Priesthood was not restored at that time and there has been no subsequent revelation of its restoration, . and the prophet, Joseph Smith, Jr. was taken out of their midst.  As was the case with the children of Israel when they failed to come into the presence of God and become His people. 

Moses was taken out of their midst, and they were left to wander in the wilderness until the unbelieving generation had all died off. 

Moses appeared to Joseph and restored priesthood keys to him, as recorded in the D&C:11 

11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.

So, I must continue to watch and wait for The Lord’s Servant of the Vineyard,  for the one Like unto Moses, the bearer of the keys of the kingdom, whose right it is to redeem Zion!

May God grant us all the righteous desires of our hearts and may he cover us all with the mantle of Charity that His Spirit can work on our hearts and minds and bring us to a state of one heartedness and one mindedness.  That we may all meet one day in Zion!

A humble, hopeful, follower of Christ!

Respondent #2 (Five Emails)

1st email

O my, Watcher, you received this on the day after the message was delivered? If so, that is astounding. Your watching is paying off!

I know of this group. Bob Moore is one I know because in the 1980’s my mother sent me dozens and maybe hundreds of teaching tapes about the restoration groups especially as we separated from the CoC.

Funny, but I’ve been investigating a possible move to the Independence Mo. area and to the Blue Springs city, where the Zarahemla Restoration branch is located.

I have listened to Joseph Smith’s presentation and am listening to the evening discussion now. This is stunning in the scope of the claim and the facts of seeing and handling the gold plates, the sealed portion, the interpreters and the sword of Laban.

But also, the representation that a portion of the sealed portion will be translated and sent to the Independence area for publication.

I had not heard anything about this, however I am aware of an effort to bring the restoration groups together under a leadership called the Pastors in Zion.

We must prayfully address these claims and I will be checking in with my local sources back there.

Thank you so very, very much for sharing this information.

2nd Email

Dear Watcher,

I have typed out a transcription of the email so we could refer to the specifics. Here is the best I could do. There are several ? in the text where I had difficulty making out the word.

I also interlineated the scriptures cited in the email.

Bro XXXX

======================

    I have a lot to say, Mr. Smith, but as I do not know how to speak and write in English, I hear that the Google translator will transcribe a phrase, otherwise causing confusion, that can be read by you. So I’ll briefly summarize the facts so you can keep tract of what happened to us and what we want with you.

        I do not understand all of your scriptures, your doctrines, but I will use the Bible and the text of your scriptures that appears in the site http://www.centerplace.org.

        It all started April 6, 2007. It was the eve of Easter. I had climbed a hill alone to pray to God in the desire to get some answers to my questions. During the trip I was lost in the woods closed? until sunset and night came and the darkness of the trees was larger than an enclosed room and, without a flashlight, I could not move from that place. Fear, at that time, took over my senses, making me feel like a dark force was overwhleming me. When a light appeared through the tees pushing away the fear that surrounded me soon a character involved in that light called me by name and said not to be afraid. He identified himself as an angel of God with the name of Raphael. Which years later I could see, in one of his writings, that he visited Joseph Smith Jr.. [This is from LDS DC 110:21b, this is the LDS DC in Portuguese which is the only one they have.]

        On this occassion, the angel Raphael made, with his hands, light to illuminate the whole forest so that I could reach the top of the hill where I received a visitation of another celestial being which I will not report here with this email but will leave for another occassion. [JS then said that later on he learned that this being was Moroni because at this time Moroni began to work with these people.]

        The being who was waiting for me at the top of the mountain, then prescribed, more than once, the text of Isaiah1 two through nine, so that it was etched in my memory. [Following is the text referred to.]

        1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord hath spoken; I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

        1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib; but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

        1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters; they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

        1:5 Why should ye be stricken anymore? ye will revolt more and more; the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

        1:6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores; they have not been closed; neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

        1:7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire; your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

        1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

        1:9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

    He told me that he appeared to me because of my great faith and righteousness and that my prayer had touched the feelings of him who rules the whole universe. But he required me to return to that same place, no longer alone, but accompanied by three other men who would approach me for Bible study and that we should go back there once every year until ten years had passed. And so we did. Until we came to understand what God expects us to do.

        Your [JS] contact was revealed to us in this last time which was January 21st of this year, 2017. We were told on this occassion that we went up the hill, that the Lord was moving his Hand to restore Zion to its place determined by him in a place chosen to be the New Jerusalem in Missouri. He said that the churches which bear his name had strayed from their covenants making the arm of flesh their strength. He showed us that the remnant quoted by him to me the first time, in the words of Isaiah 1:9, to be the branches of the restoration. However, he affirmed that even among the branches of the Restoration, there were certain divergencies of opinions and that they are not altogether one of heart and mind. Therefore the Lord looks with appreciation to you, Mr. SmithJ and to your congregation for he has seen your labor and the intent of your heart.

        [JS said that he has worked for 21 years to bring the saints together beginning with the Waldo sermon wherein the Lord said that they had a window of opportunity to step through and to find common ground and to work together and begin to build up the Kingdom of God. For the most part the sermon went in one ear and out the other.]

        But there is no way to get your people back together in one flock in your country. For there is much strife and repugnent? among latter day saints in regard to the other churches which in one have been divided into many. But God will do it from Brazil until it fills all Latin America, Central, finally to arrive again in the lands of the North where the people of the covenant is accounted as being a great multitude. Rev. 7:9 [quoted below]

        7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

        In relation of what the Lord requires of us with you is that a congregation directed by you here in Brazil be established and be in commune with other branches of the restoration because the Holy Spirit will operate by in our midst entering? increasing? in many chapels of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for there are many people in that denomination that the Lord intends to seep for himself as he did in the past when the Nephites preached to the Lamanites. Our work therefore is therefore is similar to that of Alma who preached among the wicked people of King Noah converting his member to the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

        The Lord allowed the powers of darkness to take over the regency of the greatest church of the saints of today but he intends to seek his own chiefs from this spot so that the prophecy of Ia 60:22 will come.

        60:22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation; I the Lord will hasten it in my time.

    What we initially desire is the baptism of your hands or an authority sent to us from you for this purpose and to obtain the gift of the Holy Ghost in order to fulfill our ministry fully as promised to us by the heavenly beings.

        We are willing to separate our tithes from now on to achieve this goal which is not ours only, but of our Lord, Jesus Christ. We were told that you would be our leader as long as you lived. Amen

    [End of email]

(3rd email)

Dear Watcher,

I found another video which was a week, or less, before the sermon of Joseph F. Smith. Here is the link:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/109178834

Bob Moore talks about the Brazil experience, but not in detail, choosing instead to say that Brother Smith is the primary witness and it was hoped that that testimony would be given within the coming week. (It was.)

Because I believe that this video may contain important information about the second invitation issue, I’m going to send the link now. However, I have uncovered prior efforts by Bob Moore and Joseph Smith relative to attempts to bring unity between some of the restoration break aways from the RLDS/CoC and the Temple lot faction. I’m going to cover that info in a different email.

(4th email)

Dear Watcher,

I have been out here in California since 1965 with relatively little face to face interaction with the saints struggling with the take over of the RLDS leadership and the changing of that body into the CoC which, I understand, has been accepted into the World Council of Churches.

Once thousands of saints fled the apostate RLDS/CoC, they tended to stay connected in their own groups and simply renamed their groups.

Along the way a number of local leaders tried to  find a way to unify the restoration branches and they began the JCRB, Joint Conference of Restoration Branches.

As best I can tell, Bob Moore was working with several churches, a Bickertenite branch, an LDS congregation, and the Temple Lot church where Joseph F. Smith is a member. I believe that Bob Moore tried very hard to get the JCRB to accept Joseph as a voting member of the conference. This caused some dissent and I don’t really know if Joseph was ever accepted for voting.

Nonetheless, it is clear that Moore and Smith developed a working relationship despite coming from very different organizations.

Here is some info found on an internet report:

JCRB Seventy Bob Moore

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/39711977

In Retrospect, Where Have We Been

Bob Moore, around 45 minutes into his presentation, reveals that there are ties with three organizations, Church of Christ Temple Lot (Joseph F. Smith and some others), Bickertonites preaching in JCRB congregations, and that Richard Kohn is working with Utah LDS.  Bob Moore is working with Joseph F. Smith with some Utah LDS and have a pending agreement to work in harmony with a congregation of LDS in a nearby area near Independence.  He says,

“We intend to do that”.

Question to Bob “Where is the LDS congregation?”

Bob, “I can’t identify that, I get people in trouble.”

It is apparent that Bob Moore is a stronger personality and that Joseph defers to Moore.

What is becoming clearer is that we simply don’t know enough about the communications from Brazil to either Smith or Moore. In his sermon, Smith referred to several emails between the BG and himself.

We know that in the second video, the Q&A, Moore gave an introduction in which he described what the two of them knew before they went to Brazil.

But we have no record of the ongoing emails. Did the BG tell Smith/Moore that they had the artifacts before they went down there? Frankly, it sounded to me like they did not know that in advance. But no one asked exactly when did you first know that they claimed to have the BOM plates, Laban’s sword and the interpreters?

Anyway, I just wanted to pass this on.

5th Email

Dear Watcher,

My wife, who is licensed as a marriage and family counselor, but who is not a member of any of organization deriving from the original JS, Jr. Church of Jesus Christ, watched both the sermon testimony of Joseph Smith and the Q&A evening service.

She said that she actually felt sorry for Joseph because it was apparent that he has a good heart, but that he could be manipulated. Should any of his story turn out to be false, it will likely cause Joseph serious physical problems.

The narrative story, when pieced together, presents some questions/problems for which we do not have sufficient information to resolve.

1.    Joseph’s testimony was that his first contact with the Brazilian Group came by way of an email from Mauricio. The email had to have been prepared subsequent to 1/21/17 because Mauricio’s email said that Joseph’s contact was given to them on that date. Presumably it was Moroni who gave the contact information to them. However, the email address was to a generic address, which was owned by Bob Moore.

Q:     Did Joseph have an individual email address on or before 1/21/17?

Q:    Who first received the email sent to the generic address?

Q:    Was the email read by someone, other than Joseph, before it was delivered to him?

Q:    Has the email from Mauricio been saved digitally or in printed form?

Q:    Was the reading by Joseph, on Sunday morning, a direct quoting of the email received at the generic email address?

2,    Also, concerning the ongoing emails between Smith, Moore and Mauricio. Smith referred to emails about ongoing questions from Mauricio.

Q:    Are these communications being conducted by emails?

Q:    Are these emails being collected and will they be made available for review?

Q:    Are other forms of communication being used?

Q:    Will all forms of communication be made available for review?

3.    The smashing of the interpreters. This was described in some detail especially as to the fragments which were saved. Personally, if I had artifacts given to me by an angel, I would NEVER smash any part of the gift. One does not have to look through the interpreters if one fears the result. But to destroy? I think not.

4.    The antipathy towards the LDS church was jarring, especially when the message of Joseph said how he has spent 21 years trying to build bridges and bring groups together. Related to this concern is the apparent belief that the RLDS (now restoration branches) is the “True” church with no seeming recognition that the entire original church was rejected and slipped into apostacy.

Reading JFS’s biography shows that his father left the RLDS in 1925 and joined up with the Temple Lot people. This is a significant date because it was in 1925 that the “Supreme Directional Control” doctrine of RLDS Pres. F. M. Smith, led to a major split off of RLDS membership.

5.    Many awake saints believe that we are in end times events and that the Marvelous Work and a Wonder is something we are looking for at any moment. But we must be alert to watch for any of Satan’s deceptive practices. Having the BOM gold plates, interpreters and sword of Laban surface in Brazil, Porto Alegra, rather than the Promised Land raises a “red flag.” This development will create even more division among believers who are and will be advised to gather to Zion. Now, there will be questions about gathering to South America, Brazil. So, was Mauricio deceived? His comrades?

6.    During the Q&A evening meeting, questions were asked about pictures of the artifacts. It was stated that Mauricio’s group took pictures of both Smith and Moore holding the Plates. Where are those pictures? If they were taken digitally, they are already “out there” and will likely surface at some point. Did Mauricio send emails with digital photos attached to Smith or Moore? If so, will they show the pictures?

7.    Additional witnesses also bear on the bona fides of this experience. We are told that there are to be additional witnesses to be named by the Lord. Who is the prophet who is to receive those names? It seemed that it is Joseph F. Smith, although I do not recall him expressly saying he is the one. Should not witnesses also be selected from LDS, CoC as well as Restoration Branches? Looks like a bit of a nightmare to handle the selection process without a Prophet.

8.    We are told that Mauricio’s group will handle the translation of the sealed portion, a least a part of it, but what happened to the promise to Oliver Cowdery that he would have a translator’s role in future revealing of hidden records?

9.    Why the angel Raphael? Not mentioned in the Bible, but referred to in LDS DC 110:21b. But, what about Joseph Smith, Jr., to whom the keys of the Kingdom, which was coming forth for the last time, were given to him and “. . . shall never be taken from . . .” him in this world and “neither in the world to come; . . ..” LDS DC 90:2-3 Is JS,Jr. simply out of the loop?

10,    What about the parable of the wheat and tares? The gathering of the wheat was to come by separating the tares and the wheat sheaves were to be gathered into the barns. Yet, this experience suggests that the Lord has given up on those in North America because they are hopeless. JFSmith read from Mauricio’s email:

“But there is no way to get your people back together in one flock in your country. For there is much strife and repugnent? among latter day saints in regard to the other churches which in one have been divided into many. But God will do it from Brazil until it fills all Latin America, Central, finally to arrive again in the lands of the North where the people of the covenant is accounted as being a great multitude. . . .”

Is this the way the Lord fulfills his parable? By simply abandoning the prior work? Is the Lord to ignore those who have awakened to their awful circumstances and are trying to understand what they are to do? Are we to understand that our efforts will not be needed until all of South and Central America is converted? This just does not seem right to me.

11.     What about the promises made to the First Laborers in the Lord’s vineyard? They only laid the foundation and their work was cut short of finalization. Were they not promised that yet their voices would be raised in warning to the great and notable cities of North America? If so, has the Lord decided now to leave these brethern on the sidelines and give the fulfillment of their efforts to others? There is no prophetic announcement of this so far as I can see.

There are many other points that could be raised, but without a lot more information and some prophetic explanations, I’m just not buying this story yet. So far we have been essentially told, “Trust us, we are telling you the truth.” But I trusted the leadership of the RLDS who then later joined the World Council of Churches, declared the BOM not historical and authoritative, took the name of Jesus Christ out of the Church name, de-emphasized Joseph Smith, Jr., and adopted open communion, same sex marriage, and other non-scriptural doctrines. Trust is a necessary, but not sufficient, basis for belief.

If Brothers Smith and Moore were seeking our assent to the truth of their report, much more is needed. How do we know that they even went to Brazil? How do we know they met with Mauricio and others? Where are the pictures of their meeting with the Brazilian Group, the baptisms, and other interactions? Where are the pictures of the angelic donated artifacts? Where is Mauricio’s explanation of why he smashed the interpreters? Was he admonished by Moroni for having done so? Where is the prophet of God to declare what God is doing especially in the context of promises made in the D&C?

It would be marvelous and wonderful if the second invitation is being made and that the Lord’s hand is moving to both execute judgment upon the wicked and to extend salvation to the more righteous. But so far we have only Joseph F. Smith’s statement that he is the man who has declared this to us. There is much yet to be learned.

Respondent #3

Watcher,

Thanks for sharing those videos.  If this is true, this is of supreme importance.

Kind of incredible, but not sure what to think. I always thought the restoration would happen here in America.

I’m studying 2 Ne. 3 to see how what he said Moroni said it should be interpreted works out or not.

Right now my mind is dark and can’t see it. I’m going to take another pass at it later.

One thing that did come to mind when Elder Joseph Smith was speaking of his priesthood being pure and handed down was D&C 86:10

10 Therefore your life and the priesthood have remained, and must needs remain through you and your lineage until the restoration of all things spoken by the mouths of all the holy prophets since the world began.

Feel free to share your thoughts on the matter.

2nd Email

This is what I received from them:

XXXX,

As I am sure you can imagine, there are some pretty significant demands on Brother Bob and Joseph’s time and that will probably continue for the near term. Joseph lives about three hours from Independence so he is not readily available “in person” in our area (Independence, MO) and Bob is leaving Friday for a couple of week mission trip to Sri Lanka.

We have been visiting some about holding a larger gathering in Independence similar to the one you perhaps viewed on UStream so that the testimonies can be shared to a larger group as well as offering an opportunity for more dialogue and discussion and perhaps even some worship. Right now, we only have the idea but no plans. I could, however, imagine that we might do something in early December. We’ll have to wait until Bob returns to discuss further and make the plans. I will hang on to your note and let you know.

Additionally, I think it will be important to have an online vehicle of some sort where up-to-date information can be shared. It will be too much to keep so many informed just through eMail. We have the ability to do that, I just need to get it rolling and am going to start that dialogue with a few this evening.

Brad Gault

3rd Email

Watcher,

I’ve read 2 Ne. 3 and JST Gen 50 and listened to the part where Bob is teaching what Moroni says about Elder Joseph Smith today being the spokesman and of the loins of Joseph Smith, Jr.

I can’t see it. I have a stupor of thought just writing about it.

Here’s the hand written account of my research.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wcas1xxxtfdvidu/2%20Ne.%203.pdf?dl=0

I found some good gems while doing this research project.

Here’s one:

Bob Moore says that Moroni taught that 2 Ne. 3:11 speaks of Jospeh Smith III being the one referred to of convincing them of the word that had already gone forth with his contributions of the Inspired Version of the Bible and other commandments.

11 But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them.

Well in the Inspired Version of the Bible in Gen. 50:30 there’s an addition to that verse that changes things. I believe the addition is so significant that it can’t possibly be referring to JS3.

30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;

What you’ll find interesting in the JST Gen 50 account of the promises given to Joseph in Egypt is the fact that “latter days” and “last days” are used a total of four times. Two times each.

It appears to me that the term latter days when it is used has reference to the 2nd Watch or LDS Restpration Movement while the term last days has reference to the 3rd Watch or last time prior to Christ’s second coming in glory.

So for me it’s a stretch to say that 2 Ne 3:11 has reference to JS3 during the latter days segment of this prophesy when the scripture in JST Gen 50:30 says it takes place during the last days.

That’s just one of many inconsistencies that I found in the message delivered when compared against the Holy Word of God.

Can’t wait to see what you and others have written.

4th email

Thanks. [responding to one of my email responses]

I wanted to believe, but I can’t deny the revealed revelations.

I don’t know how people are going to survive all the coming deceptions when they want to discount the current revelations.

Looking at just the BoM it’s hard to see the deception, but when looked at in harmony with all revealed word, aka JST.

Also, why did it take Moroni 10 years!! That’s where I got lost the first time.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

5th Email

Watcher,

https://secondinvitation.org/2017/11/04/a-word-from-joseph/

This is a link to their blog. I find it interesting that his way of combating any of the negative press that’s out there about his trip to Brazil is for them to leave it alone and see if it dies on its own and, he makes no mention of any of the artifacts that he personally handled while on his trip. He only defends the fact that he went there to give baptize and ordain.

I find that very suspect. Why he would not defend his testimony.

Respondent #4

Email #1

Watcher: Well…My initial instinct is to believe Elder Joseph Smith http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/109371953.

I will ask the lord for a confirmation straight away. Too many signs have already been given for me to ignore it. I am certain our mutual friend and brother (XXX  XXXXXXXX) knows him, and I would like XXXX to weigh in on the subject if he can.

Given your background, you probably have met him yourself. I trust you would not have shared the video with us unless you thought there is likely something there.

The order and manner of the roll up to Missouri sounds approximately right from teachers like XXXX XXXXXX and XXX XXXXXXXXXXX. The timing of dark things happening simultaneously in Washington sounds right. Even the Dream Mine sign of the wheat sounds right.

Having a descendant of Joseph Smith announce it sounds right to me. I dunno how much better timed this can be. God bless you in your work.  Your friend,  XXXXXX

 Email #2

I sent an email to joseph[at]reorganizedChurch.org

Elder Joseph: I listened to your testimony tonight. I believe you. I love you and the Lord. I am here in Utah if you need anything. There are 100s upon 100s of us prepared by the Lord to assist you. Herah for Israel.  XXXX  XXXX, Friend of XXXX  XXXXXXX.

Bob Moore sent the following to me (by mistake)

Joseph: I received this email from a person in Utah.  I know XXX XXXXXX.  He is involved in a group, many of whom are LDS members.  They believe that they need to obey parts of the Law of Moses.  XXXX invited me to join that group several years ago.  I told him that I choose to live by faith in Jesus Christ instead of obedience to a dead law of works.  I do not know if this person and the people to whom he refers are part of that group or not.  Let me know how this contact works out. Bob

Note: I don’t think Bob Moore understands Eskdale

XXX called cautioning me to hold my fire and to not jump off a cliff without a parachute. He told me he would provide 2 parachutes to make sure. I had a good laugh.

Hello: I have just now had an interesting chat with XXXX  XXXXXXX regarding Elder Joseph F Smith (former Hedrickite apostle). XXXX said he has a parachute for me and wants me not to jump just yet as he investigates on the ground. I sent an email the Elder Joseph F Smith and got a reply back from his spokesperson, Bob Moore.

This is a fascinating journey of discovery.

The sword of Laban. The interpreters. The sealed portion. It’s like a safari. For sure, my friend XXXX knows I have a tendency to jump first and ask questions later, so back to work and Babylon I go. BTW… My brother said I am like the “eye of mordor” ever looking and watching LOL, but I told him that honor goes to Watcher. To be frank, the more opposition I hear about Joseph F Smith, the more I like him.  Love from XXXX

I called my like-minded friends. Only one (a mutual friend) was very interested. The rest are waiting.

XXXX called again to say a tornado of activity at Independence was sweeping through the Restoration Branches stating mostly only the young people have accepted the testimony of JFS.

Brother Bob: It looks like your forward to Elder Joseph went to my email instead. Please forward my original inquiry to Joseph F Smith again if you don’t mind. BTW… I happened to chat with XXXX while he traveled from Eskdale back to Independence today. He said you and Joseph have caused quite a stir at Independence, and I certainly hope so. I admire your courage to just say what you saw and not equivocate about it. Other than my noising your testimony around, I have not heard any other account of it from anyone else in Utah yet. I will keep my ear to the ground. God Bless you, XXXX XXXXXX 

Note: This is a lot of fun, and I still want it to be true very much. When I heard the testimony, I considered it to be true. Some of your posts caution about asking folly questions to the Lord. Oliver Cowdery was warned to do more than just ask. I get it. I’m working on it.  Thanks for sending the link.

Email #2

 I replied to Bro Bob who sent me an apology for mis directing his forward to jsf.

I listened to your testimony tonight. I believe you. I love you and the Lord. I am here in Utah if you need anything. There are 100s upon 100s of us prepared by the Lord to assist you. Herah for Israel.

Friend of XXXX XXXXXXXXX.

Bob. Great, thank you so much! I know XXX and Fred Larsen and all the members of the House of Aaron at Eskdale utah, but I grew up LDS. No. I am not a member of the group spoken of but I have great love and admiration for them. Not for their great understanding of the Book of Mormon, but for a joyful  reason given me from the Spirit.

When I write of 100s upon 100s prepared, I am referencing a loose movement of LDS members being groomed to live in small communities of believers with the Lord only as shepard. I am a member of 6 such families which are meeting regularly.  We have our differences as I hear you do. We pattern ourselves after the Kirtland school of the prophets.

We are learning the refinement process of ascension to be in God’s presence. We are as Levites (my understanding) and will eventually become the sacifice before the Lord ourselves as found in Malachi.

It’s all about restoring the House of Israel in my opinion. I have told XXXX in the past; the Lord must have loved all you all first because he scattered you first.

I believe your message of unity because it makes sense. I sense you have gone through hell and back with what I am just now learning are “Restoration Branches.”

We dont have a scatter problem in LDS world. We have a a glue problem that wont let any idea in but our own. My sense is you and Joseph are opposites that way. There is much to learn for all of us who think we have it figured out and that’s why i am hopeful in what you are doing.

Show quoted text

Brother Bob:

It looks like your forward to Elder Joseph went to my email instead. Please forward my original inquiry to Joseph F Smith again if you don’t mind.

BTW… I happened to chat with XXX while he traveled from Eskdale back to Independence today. He said you and Joseph have caused quite a stir at Independence, and I certainly hope so. I admire your courage to just say what you saw and not equivocate about it. Other than my noising your testimony around, I have not heard any other account of it from anyone else in Utah yet. I will keep my ear to the ground.

God Bless you,

Email #3

Correct. Some of the rumors around the “Restoration Branches” is the “large sum of money” charge. Mauricio has NOT asked for money that I know about and neither has JFS. To produce a 60# set of plates would have taken $1,400,000 cash. Recently tungsten has been used to fake gold bars, which if applied here, is only $1,200 to to build a fake that would heft like gold and may be the origin of the schmutzy black grime???  LOL. More difficult would be filling 68 leaves with strange characters without any apparent origin.

Email #4

Watcher:

Tungsten comes in foil which means it is flexible:  https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Tungsten-foil-can-be-made-as_60569394424.html?spm=a2700.7724857.main07.30.4e0da080rGqdW1&s=p

And, of course, tungsten can be plated with gold: http://www.tungstenaffinity.com/Gold-Plated-Tungsten-Rings-s/306.htm

Unfortunately, seeing gold plates is not enough in this age to prove anything. It makes me sad.

Email #5

Correct. Some of the rumors around the “Restoration Branches” is the “large sum of money” charge. Mauricio has NOT asked for money that I know about and neither has JFS. To produce a 60# set of plates would have taken $1,400,000 cash. Recently tungsten has been used to fake gold bars, which if applied here, is only $1,200 to to build a fake that would heft like gold and may be the origin of the schmutzy black grime???  LOL. More difficult would be filling 68 leaves with strange characters without any apparent origin.

Email #6

Spanish chemists discovered the metal tungsten in the 1700s. Does that mean the Nephites could have been shown it? Maybe. But…Still bugging me is the baptisms by fire and the loving people. Deceivers don’t get those experiences. Can Joseph F Smith discern a deceiver?

Email #7

All that said….  Please put me down as a believer in what has been shared so far from the 2 videos. I only know one other person in my circles who agrees with me. All other oppose me. What a wonderful time to live!

Email #8

Watcher: Thanks for your post this morning. Your summary of positions wasn’t well understood by me, but you must be some kind of savant in ways.  I hope you are not offended.

BTW… It was instructive for me to read the Book of Ether again today. I’m sure you have already done so.

FYI Below with a newsy greeting from the ZB pastor

Hi XXXX

Brother Bob left Friday for a mission trip to Sri Lanka. (It was planned before he and Joseph went to Brazil.) He won’t return until Nov 18 but I expect that when he does that we’ll organize something here in the area in a larger venue so that more can attend.

We have quickly tossed together a web site to keep all up-to-date as these events unfold:

http://www.secondinvitation.org

When we get something scheduled, we’ll post a notice there.

We absolutely welcome inquires and interest from the LDS community.

Brad

Email #9

Dear Brad G.:

I have heard there isn’t much affinity between the Utah Church and Josephites especially from older members. I can easily pick up on the rancor regarding the “apostate” member of the Brazil group who joined the LDS and became a problem for Mauricio. In Utah we are so dang full of ourselves we hardly notice anyone else at present, so I can understand.

As a child we gossiped about RLDS and we spoke of some day returning on foot to Missouri, but as the years have passed, more and more temples have been built without a clear reason. As details of church history emerged since the 1980s (i.e. follies of polygamy and witholding priesthood from blacks) there were and are a few on the Left who are becoming atheists; those few on the Right have doubled down on Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and Lectures on Faith.

We (conservative seekers) mostly are looking to ascend into Christ’s presence as promised by Joseph and we cast off the remnants of not-for-this-telestial-world doctrines that Brigham probably got from Joseph but never understood them well. The whole nexus of polygamy and our temple rites came from Brother Brigham’s memory. The law of adoption itself was a tumble of misunderstandings and has resulted in our temple ordinances.

When Brigham saw Joseph in a dream (1847), the most important question he had was regarding what to do with adoption.  It was a mess with priesthood holders in Nauvoo striving to get the biggest spiritual family they could by being “sealed” to one another with the highest priesthood holder at the top of a pyramid. Joseph didn’t answer him directly but told Brigham to have us live by the Holy Ghost and we would be directed right.

We kept up our nutty behavior, but it has all evolved and devolved down to the mostly sanitized versions observed today. Sadly, somewhere along the trail, Second Comforter principles were obscured and forgotten even though the Doctrine of Christ is clearly taught in the Book of Mormon (2nd Nephi). I don’t see anyone in Missouri yet teaching it, but it will be again in my opinion. Both sides of the rockies kept part of the restoration in their own way, and it’s still alive! Moreover I know over 100 priesthood men in my circles who have studied in a School patterned after Kirtland. There are many more than 100.

It reminds me of the promises in Malachi about refining the priesthood of Levi and an offering being made before New Jerusalem. That offering is probably latter-day men and women repenting and purifying themselves and the priesthood for a restoration of God’s house. Our centrally controlled leadership do not like us studying and talking about it, and thus many have been disciplined including me (my temple recommend was cancelled).

I still go to church, but it’s like God has swept my mind clean of all traditions. Left are the doctrines given us by Joseph mostly before Kirtland. Therefore we have faith in one yet to come Mighty And Strong. We believe Adam-ondi-ahman was an event many of us saw in vision having taken place 23 Sept 2017. Therefore the story coming out of Brazil is perfectly timed and independently offset as another witness of its veracity.

We are all descendants of Joseph’s work. Does Joseph F Smith ever talk about including us in the mountains and across the world?

Brad’s response

Would very much agree that we need to be watchful. The Joseph Smith Ministries site was built quite a number of years ago. Brother Bob Moore built it and maintains it for Joseph. He publishes a monthly newsletter and you find the archive of those on the site. It was an outgrowth of powerful testimony that Joseph has that he had a calling to try to help unite the Restoration and its many portions. I linked the site because we are getting questions about who Joseph is and the site does give some background on him.

Brad

Email # 10

Watcher:

The man behind the curtain seems to be the JCRB http://conferenceofbranches.org/.  At least that is the suspicion of several (more than my initial contact). JCRB is a faction from a fraction as they say. Fred Larsen was hugely dissed by them at one time and the Zarahemla Branch was at the center; or so it seemed.

Bob Moore got his Seventy title from the JCRB which now has apostles and they seem to be angling toward getting a prophet. Will that goal now be derailed by JFS or will it be supported by him. That is the hanging chad question at Independence.

What I still like is the veracity of both JFS and Bob Moore. JFS kept saying “this is not about starting another church.” Seventy Moore kept saying “Joseph is the Lord’s spokesman.” If Seventy Moore has designs to conscript the hapless JFS it won’t work if this all is of God. If Bob is just another articulate apostle Paul, we have a winner. Maybe the JCRB and Remnant Church will unite to support JFS. That would be a good thing if it’s as true as I want it to be.

Email 11

Bob Moore has approved this message from him for circulation

XXXX

All of us who believe the latter-day message are also bound by the denominational traditions that separate us.  Everyone of those denominations failed at one point, so it makes little sense to defend any of them.

There is nothing to lose if one has already lost the favor of God.  There is everything to gain if a person loses the things of the world and gains God’s favor.  The titles of men and their accolades have no comparison to the sweet presence of the Holy Spirit.

Whenever the Spirit of God moves in power, it prepares people beforehand to receive it.  I am glad that there is a group that the Lord prepared in Utah.  I expect that there are others elsewhere.

Later this moth I will talk to Joseph about the wisdom of coming to Utah to meet the group of whom you speak.  I will also let you know the next time Joseph speaks publicly.

I want to elaborate on uniting the people without organizing them.  I mean by that statement that Joseph is not planning on creating a church organization that people join.  Everyone comes from the background that they are currently in.  The unifying ingredient is the testimony that the sealed portion is about to come forth and the Lord must have a unified people in the Land of Zion to received and publish its translation as well as build the Temple.

The spokesman for the translator is Joseph F. Smith.  He is the person to guide those who believe and seek unification.  That may mean that he receives revelation from God on necessary items to help that unification happen.  We are promised that the Lord will pour His righteousness on the believers who come together.  This is the real miracle, that when the Lord pours His righteousness on us, He will make us one.  The differences that keep us apart will evaporate and we will happily do what the Lord wills.

At some point organization must come, but it will be after the believers are unified.  If the Lord spoke through Joseph and revealed how to organize before there is unity, many people would refuse to come together.  Unity must proceed the revelation.

We cannot build the temple without organization.  I am a home builder.  You cannot have a bunch of people from different trades show up all at once and expect them to build something that stands.  There must be key people in charge and functioning.

When that organizing comes, Joseph will be the spokesman, but it will come through the means and consistent with the fashion that the Lord has already established.  No one will doubt it, but rejoice in how consistent and true to His word our Lord is.

May the Lord bless you and those with whom you associate as you better prepare for the glorious days ahead.  I look forward to our continued communications and especially the time that we meet.

Bob

Email #12

Watcher:

The Independence rumor mill is working overtime at the center place of Zion. I got the following text this afternoon: “will it make any difference to you if the seekers in Brazil are former LDS members … or … if Mauricio also contacted someone else in January? Developing!!”

Additional Misc emails

Some of the buzz out of Independence tonight is: 1) Why would the circle of unity extend to only a few “Restoration Branches,” 2) Why would Temple Lot Hedrikites be included at all, 3) why would there be bashing of others (including the ‘apostate’ LDS), 4) why was Joseph and Bob broad-sided without advance awareness of what he was getting into, 5) why doesn’t Mauricio accept the D&C, 6) why was sword even there… on and on.

My group of friends, 9:1, have concluded Joe and Bob (and Mauricio) were all duped by an angel of light (Raphael, Moroni, 3 Nephites) masquerading to embarrass the LDS Church. Everyone’s ox is gored.

My final question back to my friends was: Can an angel of light produce physical gold plates?, smashed interpreters?, loving people?

I plan to wait for more evidence. It looks to me like all the “Restoration” is in need of unity and charity in a big way. If it’s real, the Lord will help us get over ourselves. It has to happen sooner or later anyway. In order for a masquerade to be perpetrated, the drama will need to continue for quite some time. Our Brethren won’t get wind of it for a while if the past is an indicator of how they will react.

Thanks for sharing it on your blog in the first place,

Respondent #5 

Pretty amazing stuff happening.

Those poor people. [referring to the Q & A Session]

I like how all they could ask the witnesses was about the plates, their shape, feel, dimension etc.

None of them asked them important doctrinal questions.

Another evidence of the times. I wonder if Denver is going to jump on this train? That would be an interesting twist.

2nd email

I felt something dangerously close to the Spirit of God as I watched Elder Joseph Smith’s testimony. I now feel that this is the work of Satan and not man. The individuals in Brazil are speaking with a messenger from the other side, but it is not an angel from heaven.

If they were speaking with Moroni– once a year the last ten years!– they would have a much better idea what’s going on.

I almost bought that Elder Joseph Smith held a priesthood which was “pure” enough to baptize the group in Brazil. I was disappointed that he did not confer the gift of the Holy Ghost at the waterside, as the Lord has recommended (D&C 52:10) and that they never got on their knees for the blessing of the sacrament.

Still, these incongruities were small, especially if this is a prepatory work like Sidney Rigdon pre-1830.

The dealbreaker was that Elder Joseph Smith ordained the soon-to-be prophets to the Melchizedek priesthood.

This was proof that they are not speaking with Moroni. Moroni would have, of course, told them that they must sacrifice all things and enter into the law of consecration before being ordained to the high priesthood.

But even so, just because Elder Joseph Smith lacks the gift of discernment, it doesn’t mean that the golden plates haven’t been delivered to someone. Until a translation comes forward, I feel we must remain open to the possibility it is of God.

3rd Email

I wanted to see what a Snufferite thought of Brazil, so I sent the video links to XXXX  XXXXXX

Here’s his response:

No, I hadn’t heard of this. I listened to one of the testimonies. Very interesting.

My current inclination is that this is a hoax, though I admit I don’t know much about it. Certain parts of the story don’t hold up to examination, in my opinion. I do believe the gentlemen are telling the truth, and that they saw what they said they saw. But I’m not sure the plates, sword, and interpreters are genuine. Too many inconsistencies and questionable details.

But time will tell, won’t it?

Respondent # 6

Elder Smith and Seventy Moore’s sincerity cannot be questioned.

They both obviously believe in what they are sharing.

They both swear that they saw and handled the plates, sword, and interpreters.

I have no reason to question their claims based on their sincerity.

I even reached out to them via their website to offer my services as they plan to return to Brazil a second time (I speak Portuguese).

If it is true that Moroni has given the plates to Mauricio in Brazil then that is a sad commentary that the Lord couldn’t find even one worthy servant in the U.S. to continue with the Restoration where he left off.

According to Elder Smith and Seventy Moore we will soon have the translation of the sealed portion to study and contemplate.

That will be one additional piece of evidence for the rest of the world, in addition to their own first-hand witness.

Respondent #7

Hi Watcher,

Here’s my two cents worth on the reports from Elder Joseph Smith and Seventy Bob Moore of the Zarahemla Branch and their report of activity in Brazil:

1. Even though I’ve never heard of them before, they seem humble, sincere, credible and believable.

2. Their story and the story of those in Brazil seem to fit at least some scriptural patterns (outside the established religious mainstream, small humble group, fire in bosom, angelic visitations)

3. At the moment, I’m inclined to believe them.  So far, so good – let’s proceed to the next step

4. There don’t seem to be any big red flags which scream out STOP

Respondent #8

Bogus. The spirit feels like a lead thump. Not the voice or the Spirit of the God I follow.

Gold plates can appear…”demon assisted” magic abounds. It’s not about the witnesses or the objects, it’s about the message  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J_UvpPc6rfg&feature=share

Respondent #9

Hello Watcher,

It has been a long time since I have reached out to you. I have still been here following your post and I am still watching and waiting patiently for the servants to return and the Lord to reveal his hand once again on the earth.

Okay this could turn into a long email but I am determined to make it short so wish me luck on that. My initial impression of the events happening with the Zarahemla Branch and the community down in Brazil is that these people are extremely sincere and without a doubt good people.

There were several things that Elder Joseph Smith and Seventy Bob Moore said that I found extremely interesting because in someways they connected to some of the things you have talked about in a few of your post.

Here are my two big concerns about what they are saying and how they are saying it.

First of all were are the servants and second of all were is the power?

As I was listening to them talk about how Elder Joseph is the Moses spoken of in the Book of Mormon and Seventy Bob Moore is the Spokesman that did not sit well with me at all.

I believe the scriptures are clear on who those two individuals are and even if we have that part wrong my next question would be were is your power and authority.

I did not sense anything different from these two men other than what you typically get from other spiritual leaders on this earth.

I do not say that to belittle them in anyway but I am absolutely convinced that when the Lord extends his hand a second time that it will not be done or started by normal men.

The problem we keep running into with all of these different groups that claim they have found the truth or that the Lord is speaking to them is that they are all trying to save themselves by changing slowly over time.

They are all claiming that if they can just live their life in such a way that they Lord will eventually reveal to them the next step and his work will continue forward.

There seems to be a feeling that they will somehow be able to morph into what the Lord needs them to be. I get the same sense with this group as well.

One more point I wanted to add and I believe that only people who are extremely familiar with your post and blog would feel this way.

I absolutely could care less about if there was actual gold plates or not. I was more interested in what they were saying and if it lined up with the scriptures. I believe we live in a world were deception comes in all forms and fashion and if someone is going to be persuaded by physical objects alone then they are in a world of trouble. With that being said I absolutely loved how he described the plates (pretty cool)!

Anyways I could be totally wrong and I will definitely continue to keep my eyes, ears, and heart open the best way I can but so far I feel the need to be cautious with this one. I look forward to getting your official thoughts soon as well.

Respondent # 10

Hi, Watcher,

Here are my thoughts on the new development regarding the marvelous work.

To start with, I have been researching Book of Mormon chapters involved with “commence the work”.  Here is my list: 1 Nephi 14, 2 Nephi 2, 2 Nephi 30, 3 Nephi 21 up to verse 21, 3 Nephi 21 after verse 21, Mormon 3, and Ether 4. 

I divided the 3 Nephi chapter because there was a chapter division in the original Book of Mormon at that place.  The word “commence” ties all these sections together, so each part reveals a portion of what we are looking for in the fulfillment of prophecy “at that day”. 

The first thing that caught my attention is how accurately the time we live in is being described, not just in general, but in the specific events playing out on the news. 

Since the signs in the heavens (blood moons, solar eclipse, and Rev 12 star alignment) we have seen tempests, floods, fires, earthquakes, bloodshed, plague, and I think the famine is soon to come.  There are wars and rumors of wars, but more significantly, hidden things of darkness are being made known.  (Hollywood scandals, JFK assassination papers released, people not believing the LV shooting false narrative, Clinton corruption investigations, etc.)  This tells me this is the season to be watching, so we are not caught unaware as the warnings and invitations are extended to anyone who will repent.

If we are correct about the time, a couple other things to be watching for are sealed books coming to light (2 Ne 29-30) and the work of the servant/seer (2 Nephi 3)

I realize that most people in the LDS church think these things came to pass in the days of Joseph Smith jr.  However, for all the good it has done us, the work is still to be done. 

We have copies of the Book of Mormon, but its message is still sealed for most people, and many members of the church have testimonies of neither the book nor the seer. 

I found it extremely interesting that the video covered an interpretation of some 2 Nephi 3 verses that I had been pondering the day before.  The is an extremely hard chapter to parse because the names and pronouns are nearly impossible to keep track of. 

Admittedly, I know nothing about Joseph Smith III whom the speakers said is the seer in that chapter, but I would disagree strongly on that point because it doesn’t fit the history. 

Verse 14 says: Behold, that seer will the Lord bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded…  That has to be Joseph Smith, whose name is spoken both good and evil of.  (I don’t think that difference kills the relevance of the angel’s teachings because it could simply be a misunderstanding based on translation problems) 

I was interested to hear the modern Joseph Smith say he was identified as the spokesman from that chapter.  That will be tested as he begins to speak and we have some fruit to test.

The thing that really caught my attention about the presentation was based on my reading of what needs to happen, based on the 3 Nephi 20-21 verses. 

“Behold, my servant shall deal prudently. He shall be exalted and extolled and be very high.  As many were astonished at thee — his visage was so marred, more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men — so shall he sprinkle [JST- gather] many nations.” (3 Ne 20:43-45)

And

“But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although they shall be marred because of them. Yet will I heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil. Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe my words — which am Jesus Christ — which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, it shall be done even as Moses said: they shall be cut off from among my people which are of the covenant.” (3 Nephi 21:10-11) 

According to how I read these passages, Joseph Smith Jr. is the servant who is marred.  The descriptions of him since the early days of the restoration have been sufficient to keep most people from taking a good look at the work he brought forth, even the Book of Mormon. 

We used to call people who spread those rumors anti-mormon, but now the church is at the head of the pack in spreading the “facts” about the prophet to their own members, who might be the only ones who care enough to be offended anymore by it. 

I felt very strongly that part of the work of the Father will be to confound those who deny the work by rejecting the Book of Mormon and the prophet Joseph.  In the days to come, we will see a reversal of opinion, the servant will be healed.

  The Book of Mormon is the means by which the Father will do his work.  Those who accept it and its message will be numbered among the covenant, and those who reject it will be cut off.  In order for this to happen, there needs to be something that happens. 

When I heard the presentation, I thought — This might be that thing.  Do I know it? Not yet, I am waiting to see what will be said and printed in the months to come, but it could be the missing piece of the puzzle I have been looking at recently.

The other thing that was said in the videos that caught my attention was about gathering and unity.  It makes sense to me that part of the work will involve healing breaches, such as between members of various restoration branches, and even between native American tribes.  That seems right to me. 

It also makes sense of the passage which says,

“Then shall their watchmen lift up their voice; and with the voice together shall they sing, for they shall see eye to eye.  Then will the Father gather them together again and give unto them Jerusalem for the land of their inheritance.”

  Those are my thoughts. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have not yet found anything that is contrary to my understanding of the scriptures, but there has not been much shared yet. 

It was fun to hear about the objects (plates and sword), but as someone mentioned, those are simply signs.  What really matters is whether we are seeing prophecy fulfilled. Right now I am inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt and continue to watch as things progress.

Respondent #11

Wow, those videos are interesting. How incredible it would be if it was true. I think if we were to have the traslation of some of the sealed portion, it would be helpful. When you read Snuffer’s translation, it’s so obvious that it is not real.

I thought of the scripture the last shall be first and then first shall be last when considering that maybe the church started out in North America, and will be revealed anew in South America.

When looking at the http://www.centerplace.org I see they have some things like the version of the first vision of Joseph Smith seeing 2 beings. So, it seems to me they have some incorrectness. I wish someone who spoke Portuguese could go to Brazil and really find out what they believe. So fascinating they were told not to join the L.D.S. church. Also that the L.D.S. church had sent a spy and they were trying to get the gold plates. I would believe this.

I don’t see why anyone would do this for a hoax.

Respondent #12

1st Email

He immediately contacted the Zarahemla branch through their website and offered his assistance. below is some of the correspondence

Thank you for your help. I received a phone call from Joseph, and had a wonderful visit with him about scripture and prophecy. He spent 12 years in Idaho a short distance from my ranch in the timber industry… Toward the end of our conversation he suggested that I talk to Bob Moore and also suggested that I make contact with him through you.

2nd Email

Watcher, thought I would let you know that I received a phone call from Joseph Smith and visited with him for 30 minutes this morning.

I watched your video links yesterday, including  the previous Sunday’s video of Bob Moore’s preface sermon from Amos and the Old Testament and intimations of Sundays further information…

This morning I emailed through contact info on their website.Brad Gault the Zarahemla branch pastor responded and forwarded my questions and inquiries to Joseph. I then received a call within a couple of hours…

3rd Email

Joseph Smith returned my call inquiry Tuesday October 31,10 AM. I forwarded the  emails so it would preface this response. The beginning of my conversation with Joseph Smith I tried to intimate that I am a student of the Scriptures and worthy of his time and actual consideration of my request.

The first question” Is Mariceo’s email available?” He then quizzed me about my knowledge of the great lengths that were taken to procure the plates through stratagem or force from his great grandfather.

He then rehearsed a similar dissertation as he did in his congregational video how Mariceo’s home was ransacked and the LDS implication.

Joseph said Any message to Mariceo could be given to him to forward.

This seemed a little strange to me since they mentioned families and names in the Sunday meetings of virtually all who were baptized. Seems to me and email address would not jeopardize their security anymore than their first names to an entire congregation and world, rather than to an earnest inquirer… at least in my mind.

I told Joseph that I thought to learn directly from the first witness was very important and I was willing to go with my interpreter and friend to Brazil to overcome the language barrier with scriptural understanding and familiarity to make sure all of Moroni’s information was disseminated correctly to the people rather than rely on Google or a young girl who’s been educated in English by television…

My mind went immediately to the story, as I recall the Colesville saints and section 27 revelation sending Joseph to them before going to the Ohio, because they had great faith and they were practicing their understanding of the law according to Acts 2 and he needed to help clarify the finer points to a sincere group before the official revelation of the law was given.

This happening in December 1830 and the law being given after they went to the Ohio in the first part of February… and them being sent to Thompson and the amalgamation of two different mindsets. The train-wreck didn’t last a couple weeks and they were sent on to Zion…

Joseph and Bob lead us to believe this people is similar to the Colesville Saints. Section 68 shows me that a people ready for Zion have isolated themselves from the blood, sins and iniquities of the world and that there children can be baptized at age 8 because they have not been influenced by Babylon.That they have been taught to read through the Scriptures and the requirements of “reception of the word” (2 Nephi 31)and baptism in section 20 can be accomplished at eight years old, unlike anyone exposed to Babylon outside of a stake of Zion that would require fruit meet for repentance, thus an older age of accountability and repentance from the blood and sins of the exposure to the world and it’s condemnation.

Mariceo refused they reported, to learn English so the dissemination of this information to the world came through a child educated by the god of this worlds filth promoter, television and Google translate which I won’t even go into???

Joseph quizzed me about whether I studied the Joseph Smith translation. I then talked to him about section 43 and the deception promised if all of Joseph’s words from God including the Joseph Smith translation were not used to ready ourselves for the second coming.

Also the deception of the 10 virgins in section 45 and again the three ways we can be deceived in section 46 and included the deception in section 50 and 52. I did this without sections because restorationist’s use a different version of the Doctrine and Covenants.

He didn’t really respond and didn’t seem to be familiar with the many deception warnings and indicated that according to Scripture that their fractions were the only ones that had been taken back to Zion for inheritance.

I asked Joseph how familiar he was with the 1833 book of Commandments and  the February completion of the Joseph Smith translation,the printing press,the 14 issues of the Star.

I was going to mention chapter 4. “turned over to the buffetings of Satan”and the reasons for the destruction of the printing press. He interrupted me and went on a dissertation that Joseph had a copy and that the story of the printing press and the book of commandments being picked up by the children out of the street was completely false.

I ask him about whether he was familiar with the John Whitmer History and Ebenezer Robinson’s history. He said he had heard of them.I went into Ebenezer Robinson and the edition of the Book of Mormon, he didn’t respond like he knew what Robinson testified.

I went on to a different subject and asked him about false prophets in our day according to Jeremiah 23 and Isaiah, Matthew 23 and headed toward Matthew 24:5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. He interrupted and ask if I was familiar with Jeremiah 18? I told him I had it ,what part? He had me read the beginning verses and said that “this is what is happening in Brazil now…So he made it again another vessel,…”

He seemed very familiar with his talking points but not so much about anything I mentioned.

I asked Joseph about his life. He shared about his dad being a Temple lot Church apostle and himself being ordained an elder in the church in 1953, Eventually becoming disenfranchised because they were not interested in the restoration of Zion and building the temple.

I ask him about the break up of the RLDS and Community of Christ and restoration RLDS fractions in 1984 and if it was caused by the leadership being educated in other religious colleges and coming back indoctrinated and  thinking protestant believes would be more popular?

He said “that and…” he went into his famous speech to the 1100.  He was told by God to give a message( i’m not sure if he said or if I just assumed )to the Temple lot Church he had left,and the RLDS Restorationists he had joined.

He rehearsed similar to the morning meeting Sunday.The mandate from God was to repent, put down their differences and establish Zion. He said “They rejected and would not do it “

I’m going to have to watch the video again to see if he in his brief mention of his sermon that building the temple was included at that time.

The reason I mention this is the old mandate in his message from God to deliver is very similar to the message from the angel now. I’m not sure if this is Multiple witnesses over years or it is a continued desire and reason for him leaving the Temple lot church and then receiving a message from the Lord and now bolstered by the story of an angel on his original complaint???

He asked me what part of Idaho I was from. I told him, he then related how he spent 12 years working as a feller for the mill at Horseshoe bend Idaho, not far from where we farm.

Joseph then told me he had an appointment and that I should speak to Bob more about questions I had. He intimated that Bob was more familiar with some than he.

I ask him how to get a hold of Bob and he said through the pastor.

Joseph seems sincere and very believable.

Just a few scriptures that come to mind, and the Restoration Church.  My understanding of sewing new cloth on an old garment or new wine into old bottles doesn’t seem possible that the Lord would use an existing corrupt church,not to say he will not worn them. I know they don’t think they are corrupt ,he quoted the Doctrine and Covenants about their fractions being return to the land of their inheritance.

Christ shows Moroni and he informs us in Mormon 8 also Nephi in 2 Nephi 28 all churches in the last days will be corrupt… “and your churches ,yea, even every one, have become polluted…”

Will the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon be printed by a corrupt church???

I could go on and on but my final assessment is that I have not received from the Lord a confirmation.Until that happens I will await their promise of the sealed portion being  translated by Mariceo and delivered to them at the Restorationist Church for printing and dissemination. I then will test it with what I have received through The Holy Word of god.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; The flesh profiteth nothing; the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

D&C 18:3 … behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written;

D&C 43:2 For behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, that ye have received a commandment for a law unto my church, through him whom I have appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand.

3. And this ye shall know assuredly-that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.

4. But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.

5. And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or Commandments;

6. And this I give unto you that you May not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me.

This covers most of the conversation with Joseph. If I can make time I will give my opinion on the meetings and the concerns like the scriptural description of the sword of Laban, and their description and condition of the sword presented, also the interpreters being broken by Mariceo??? And other questions.

4th Email

Watcher, I wanted you to know that Elder Joseph F Smith called me this morning November 7, at 7:50. He said he called to inform me of a website, second invitation.org.

This call was not solicited nor have I had any contact with him since his first call.  Bob Moore emailed me last week and said he would get back in touch and call me for a discussion after his two week trip abroad.

I did take the opportunity to quiz Joseph. 25 minutes

Why was he chosen? Why are these Brazilians given the opportunity to establish Zion?

I asked if our iniquities are the reason for the offering of Zion to another people.

I am somewhat taken back with the call out of the blue…seems so strange, but I’m not sure that he wasn’t just calling from a recall number from previous calls, not sure if he knew exactly who or where I am located.

I am in the middle of seeding grain before frost so when I get some time I will try to put the questions and answers together a little better.

Did you happen to read on the Zarahemlabranch.org website under Question Time,Discrepancies Answered , the responses by Bob Moore to the Book of Mormon rejection letter circulated by Larry Mannering?

In one of your emails you had mentioned Bob Moore’s sincerity and study.

You forwarded me a video that showed a question and answer…

This written (Discrepancies Answered) shows Bob Moore’s views as written better than he was able to articulate them verbally.I was wondering whether this is where you formulated your assessment of Bob’s scriptural understanding?

5th Email

Watcher I agree with your assessment of scripted and the buying in from the temple lots. You were being generous when you said how many people viewed before Sunday last.

Joseph also or Bob, might be counting on the Orthodox temple lots that would not go along with the rejection of the word.

Somewhat similar to the massive amount of mormons silently rejecting the Salt Lake City’s injection of oxyProtestantism.

This morning when I was questioning Joseph I ask him about many different dates including when he was in Idaho in connection with his leaving the temple lot church, his father, mother, births ,deaths etc. etc. He doesn’t seem to be very good with dates,I could give you the specifics, but just my opinion.

In that date category one thing that I did not realize until my query this morning, Joseph left the Temple lot church very recently, less than five years… He qualified it with that he was not in with them for many years, as when they rejected the Doctrine and Covenants and Joseph Smith translation and included as reasons for his joining the Zarahemla branch.

His answer to why him ?, he said that his priesthood was the purest form from Joseph Smith Junior… His grandfather Alexander Hale Smith and his father Arthur was probably the reason for Moroni’s referral.

Another one of my questions, about iniquity, scripturally being the reason for the Brazilians being offered Zion, to see about his understanding of why… He went back to his story of 21 years since his sermon and its contents being rejected by 1100 and that setting their differences aside and coming together.

Nothing about being sanctified by the word… Cleansed from the blood and sins of this generation, or iniquity being the reason for the separation from God etc. etc.

I also quizzed him more about the sword of laban and plates.

I have been intrigued that he says the plates were smooth no engravings felt by touch, but could be seen. In my inquiry he said that there were some of them that had engravings he could feel toward the end where the seal band was??? Verrrrry interesting…

In the conversation he mentioned again having six more witnesses. I ask how one would be considered, he informed me that it would come from the Lord and said he would put my name in..lol. I replied I could be the witness for the west…lol

I also ask if he was considering taking somebody that was fluent in Portuguese?

He said maybe, but it worked pretty well with Google and a 14-year-old educated by the TV, and again mentioned how he was impressed with her being able to learn English from subtitles

Respondent #13

Mr. Watcher my is XXX. I’ve watched both videos, and I would like to add my testimony of what was told.

I believe it with all my heart but saddened somewhat from the q&a session.

There’s still unbelief and what felt like a contentious spirit after what both gentlemen testified of. That blew my mind.

Are we still part of a perverse generation that ask for proof from testimonies that ooze the Spirit of God? Hope some day this will change. As I yearn to be part of Zion.

Respondent #14

I’m still processing my thoughts after watching the videos – I expect a month from now my answers will be slightly different than now. But here are my thoughts at the present time:

Claims of seeing the plates, sword, and interpreters.

For me this intellectually interesting, but not something that I can build my faith on. I’m sure Satan can craft some exquisite items too. And since I don’t know what the real ones look like, their testimony of these items can’t be tested.

That being said, I did notice that while each one tended to focus on different aspects of the items, and their descriptions used different terminology, there didn’t seem to be a time where they contradicted each other. Especially during the Q&A session when random questions were asked and they alternated answering them. They hadn’t memorized a common script, yet their differing descriptions didn’t seem to contradict.

In general, I believe they both saw some plates, a sword, and a broken “interpreter”. Whether those items were the real deals or not is another question that I can’t answer.

Claims regarding the Brazilians

“God couldn’t work with us in the north because of our hard hearts, so he is working with the people in the south.” Ouch. But definitely believable. 3 Nephi 21:22-24 opens the door for the remnant of Jacob to take the lead, and we need to be numbered among them if we want to participate. Did a remnant of Jacob make it down to Brazil? We’ll see.

The proof is in the pudding

Until they actually DO THE WORK, it’s all just a story. When they produce new scripture from the sealed portion, and we can search it, compare it, and test it, and pray about it, then I will be in a position to take a stand. Brigham’s Section 132 is pretty easy to detect. Denver’s new stuff is also easy to test against the established word. One day someone will produce something that holds up under scriptural scrutiny – and I look forward to that.

The one thing that really struck me (positively) was the advice they gave to those of us in the north about what to do next. It would have been a perfect time to produce the 10 Step Plan to Prepare for Zion™. And it seemed like some of the people in the audience was hoping for that. Instead, they refused to give a list and told people to stop focusing on differences and just love everyone. Develop the level of charity that the Brazilians have. Do the things you already are supposed to be doing. Nice.

The other issue is that Ether 4 says the sealed portion won’t come out until the Gentiles repent. Have we repented? The previous paragraph would indicate that we haven’t. How many have to repent before God reveals the sealed portion? Are a handful of people in Brazil repenting enough for the Lord? Those are questions I don’t have answers to…yet.

Respondent #15

Watcher,

Thanks for sending out your post and the links to this presentation.

I am very happy to have watched all three hours or so of it.

The theme of the message in the videos is repentance and love for God and one another.

Those who delivered are humble and sincere.

This is the message of scripture, delivered in an appropriate, gentle way.

Many patterns I recognize.

I believe the message is divine.

I have prayed about this and will continue to do so.

Like you, I do not wish to be deceived, but as of this moment, I feel as though God’s hand is in this work.

I want to know more about it.

What about you?

Respondent #16

I believe that the what is being reported about this group in Brazil shows that the Lord is working with many people. His efforts are not with only one group. When Zion is assembled, it will be many different groups that can live together in love and peace. I thought it was interesting to hear in the question and answer session from Jeff Folley about the representatives from 150 Indian tribes that are also moving forward in fulfillment of their prophecies.

Click on this link to hear Jeff Foli’s testimony about the 150 Indian tribes that are also moving forward in fulfillment of their prophecies

Respondent #17

Sorry I didn’t respond earlier so my weigh in could be included in your follow up post.  I must confess I found bros Smith and Moore to be very credible.  I wish the leaders in Utah were as humble and guileless. 

I was very sobered by their testimonies and have been driven to self examination as to my readiness for potential participation in such momentous events and find myself very wanting. 

Because of that I’m not sure I can say I was hopeful as much as fearful, and because of that probably more believing than skeptical. 

Upon reading your follow up I see that despite the credibility of Smith and Moore, there is plenty to be skeptical of in their testimonies.

I just read Searcher’s Oct 2015 post For a Small Moment Have I Forsaken Thee and Aug 2015 What It Means To Be Sealed and if i understand them correctly, it appears that JS intimated that Elijah would yet come again and restore the sealing keys that were lost when the gentiles rejected the fulness. 

I don’t believe that was part of the testimonies of Smith and Moore.  I also don’t ever recall hearing from JS or anywhere else in scripture, that Moroni would return with the BOM artifacts to usher in the fulness.

Respondent #18

Watcher,

Since you are keeping score on how your readers think\feel about the claims made by Brothers Joseph and Bob concerning their Brazil trip, put me down as an active LDS, neutral, but hopeful.

I believe both Joseph and Bob are sincere and well intended; however, I’m concerned that their desire to reunite the saints and establish Zion, while a good righteous desire, could well allow them to be deceived (just as it could for many of us). 

As I have thought and prayed about their testimony, the only inspiration I have received is that I don’t have enough information yet to truly ponder and ask if it is true.  We haven’t yet seen the fruits, which will allow us to weigh it against the word of God.  So until we do, I will remain neutral.

I have included a list of Pros and Cons for the information we do have.

Pros:

1) all references in the Book of Mormon for the brass plates and the plates of Nephi, both large and small, refer to the plates being engraven.  In fact, Jacob even comments on how difficult it is to engrave on the plates.  However, neither Mormon or Moroni mention engraving, rather they talk about writing or have written on the plates.  I had never noticed this before, until Bro Bob mentioned that the plates he handled were not engraven but were written upon.  So the question becomes did Mormon and Moroni use a different technology to write upon the plates?  The three and eight witnesses both mention the plates were engraven.  There could be two explanations:

– Webster 1828 definition of engrave also includes “to impress”

– What plates did the witnesses see?  I still can’t find any reference to whether the plates of Mormon and the small plates of Nephi were two separate set of plates or one set of plates.  Mormon wrote that he put the small plates with his plates.  Does that mean that he physically unbound the small plates and then put them on the same rings as his plates, or just put them with his plates.  In D&C 10, the Lord speaks as if Joseph already had the small plates or knew of the small plates when he tells him to translate them rather than retranslate the Mormon abridgment.  My point is, if the small plates were bound together with the plates of Mormon, then the witnesses may have been referring to those plates when they mentioned the engraving on the plates.

Why I list this as a Pro is that I have read\listened\searched the Book of Mormon countless times, and I would have said with 100% surety that the Mormon plates were engraven as Jacob mentioned.  Showing the plates to two experienced believers with writing rather than engraving is such a blatant, rookie mistake, yet if one reads what both Mormon and Moroni wrote, it supports written not engraven for the Mormon plates. (Do a word search for engrave and then written\wrote and you will see what I mean).

2) the interpretation of 2N chapter 3 and JST Genisis 50 that Bob have is as good as any that I have heard.  I have always thought that it refers to more than just Joseph Smith Jr.  It’s hard to see how the Moses reference is for more than the OT Moses, but it could be dual fulfilment for our time.

3) In both D&C 110 and 124 the Lord bestows on Joseph Smith the same promise\blessing as Abraham, that through him and his seed the whole world will be blessed.  I’ve wondered many times what exactly that meant.  It could be a fulfillment of that promise if Joseph F Smith turns out to actually be the spokesman that brings the good news to Zion.

4) If the Lord uses the plain and simple to confound the wise and learned, then I don’t think He will find a better vessel that Joseph F. Smith (that sounds a little judgmental, but I meant it as a compliment.  I believe him to be a good, sincere, simple man).

5) This would be an ironic twist and a great test for those of us that are 4-5-6 generation members.  Really!?!? The Lord called someone from Latin America to be His end time servant?!?  The pride of Ephraim would indeed be tested!

6) Isaiah contains multiple references of hard hearts, ears that can’t hear, calling and no one would answer.  I found three references where the Lord could find “no man”.  It’s not inconceivable we have been so corrupted by our culture\TV\Movies\Entertainment that the Lord needs to go outside of Zion (US) to find someone that will listen and then call us to repentance.

7)  Both gentlemen mentioned the sweet Spirit they felt while in Brazil.  Since both are mature and well versed in the scriptures, I assume that they know what the Spirit feels like and are familiar with it.

Cons:

1) Why the sword of Laban?  Joseph Smith saw the sword, but I can’t find any reference to him having physical possession of it.  And if the sword of Laban, why not the Liahona too?

2) conflicting testimony: Maurico only does as commanded, yet he was commanded to learn English but refused to do it.

3) I can’t find any references to any servant coming from the South. All references seem to be from the East (but then again, that was one of the arguments used against the Savior, there wasn’t any prophesies of a prophet from Nazareth).

4) Joseph’s email is found on the Zarahemla Branch website, so it might not be quite the miracle that they sent him an email as they made it sound.

Don’t know if any of these made any sense to you or not, but as I mentioned above, for the time being I will with hold judgment and taste of the fruit that comes out of it and then let the Holy Spirit be my guide.

Thanks for all you do,

Respondent #19

[Complete Rejection: This communication took place in person and I did not record the conversation. It was rejected primarily on claimed discrepancies to the claims they found in modern and ancient revelation.]

Respondent #20

[ absolute rejection: This communication took place over the phone and I did not record the conversation. It was based on perceived contradictions in the Book of Mormon]

Respondent #21

Holy CURVEBALL Batman!!
 
FANTASTIC stuff!!
 
Count me as fascinated, incredibly intrigued, and skeptical, but still open until more evidence comes in.
 
Some thoughts –
 
3-4 Ether seem to indicate that the sealed portion will not be revealed until AFTER his people have repented, become clean and shown faith like the Brother of Jared  …. (not as a means to bring them to repentance)?
 
But how Will this happen from our current state? (By return and powerful preaching of first servants?). Which brings us to-
 
How would this dovetail with return of the first servants?  Could this be a precursor to their return ( supposed to other way around)?
 
Angel instructed him to learn English- he REFUSES!!??  (May be much more to that story)
 
Plates not “engraved”?  Or could engraving be part of method to enable “writing” the black characters on plates?
 
He broke the interpreters because he believed it might be if the Devil??!!!!  Need more of that story/ background
 
They took pictures on their cellphones of the  Americans with the plates??  And Americans didn’t get any?
 
All talk of burning bosoms/chests
– I’ve heard it taught that Satan can cause a burning in your bosom but he can’t give you peace that passeth understanding, pure knowledge, love, etc. (which are the fruits of spirit most often mentioned in scriptures).
 
-D&C scripture on BiB is very specific to Oliver and translation.
-On the other hand the disciples’ hearts “burned within them” when they walked with Christ unawares on road to Emaus and NT teaches that our God “is a burning fire” and his ministers “are as flames of fire”
 
Dying to hear reasons of those who immediately and emphatically reject it!

 

Respondent #22

Hello watcher sorry for my slow response, but I’ve been pondering the testimonies of brothers Smith and Bob since you sent them. My initial feelings are that what Elder Smith says is true and that he speaks without guile, however, something about Bob and whoever was conducting the Q&A session doesn’t sit right with me and I haven’t been able to figure out why.

So, I’ve been investigating the remnant branches movement and their priesthood authority claims. I have to admit that I discounted the whole RLDS movement without investigating them in as much detail as polygamous groups because I knew that they had built a temple in Independence without it being the time or proper place to do so, and because they have recently rejected the Book of Mormon in order to be accepted by mainstream Christianity, thus I never took their claims of authority seriously enough to investigate them.

Hence, I have been investigating their claims in greater detail. On the one hand President Marks joined them in the beginning and he was basically the only one who defended Brother Sydney so I see the possibility that they like the Utah church have some remnant of the priesthood through him.

But weather their priesthood is more pure as claimed by Mauricio I’m not sure yet. So while I hope sincerely that what they said is true and I believe brother Smith, the other testimonies seem somewhat suspect to me because I believe that God would clearly call a prophet or send Joseph to translate the sealed portion based on my reading of the scriptures.

So, I’m left wondering if this is satan trying to gain the temple lot for himself by mimicking the Lord putting forth his hand for the second time. So for now I will keep treasuring the word and wait to see their publication when it comes forth. In any case this shows we are close because it is either of the Lord or of satan, and if of satan he knows what is coming soon and is trying to derail it. If it is of the Lord it will come to pass.

The following documents have been sent to me

Joseph F Smith RLDS

Zarahemla Branch JFS Q&amp;A (1)https://secondinvitation.org/2017/11/04/a-word-from-joseph/

 

 

 

 


“The fatal error is that those aren’t the words of Joseph Smith!”

November 8, 2017

 

I want to share with you an email that I received from a reader of this blog the other day who is perusing my book.

Most people that order my book are probably overwhelmed when it arrives in the mail.

It is a rather large book.

book pic

Over 600 pages long with over 1200 cross references.

Some have told me that they don’t read the whole book because it is so long. Obviously, it would be quite an undertaking for someone to also check all of the footnotes for accuracy.

This is why I love it when I hear from someone that has checked a cross reference and found a mistake.

I love to be corrected when I make a mistake because I want to be as accurate as possible. I am still making a few changes here and there based on the original comments made my peer review a few years ago.

I recently got an email from one of the few readers of the book that has been scrutinizing the cross references. Here is what he said:

Watcher,

On page 124 of your book, you quote Joseph Smith as having said on January 16, 1836:

“It is not necessary that God should give us all things in His first commission to us, but in His second”. Your footnote shows this sourced as TPJS 104.

TPJS lists this conversation as having occurred on November 9, 1835 (not a fatal error, but an error nonetheless).

The fatal error is that those aren’t the words of Joseph Smith!

Those are the words of “Joshua the Jewish Minister” (aka Mattias the murderer). Read the preceding paragraphs in TPJS and even better, HC 2:305 where a different font makes the words of Joshua evident. Just three sentences earlier he talks about his theory on the first resurrection that Joseph questions immediately after your quotation, and a few paragraphs later when Joshua explains it, Joseph (on page TPJS105/HC307) declared this doctrine of the devil, told him he was in possession of a wicked and depraved spirit, commanded him to leave, and even concluded that he had “cast out the devil in body shape”.

I’m not sure in how many other places you have used this quotation, but it’s presence is problematic.

If I am in error, please educate me.

Obviously I was shocked and horrified when I read his email. I immediately pulled out my TPJS and re-read the quote and then read the larger narrative for context. I then read the account in the Volume 2 of the History of the Church.

I’ll be damned if his point didn’t appear to be well taken.

The crazy thing is that even though he appeared to be correct, I continued to believe that the quote represented the words of Joseph Smith, not Joshua the Jewish Minister. When you have studied the words of Joseph Smith as much as I have, you get a feel for how he talks and what he says.

Of course it wouldn’t discredit the concept of the “three watches” is Joseph Smith wasn’t the author of the quote.

I have provided countless other evidences that the Marvelous Work and a Wonder did not begin during Joseph Smith’s ministry when he restored the church and gospel to the earth.

I have also identified many of the unconditional prophecies and promises in modern revelation stating that Joseph and his brethren would return to this earth to complete their stewardships.

Nevertheless, I love the following statement and I have quoted it several times over the years.

“It is not necessary that God should give us all things in His first commission to us, but in His second”. Your TPJS 104.

When I read the above quote out of TPJS I just assumed it was from Joseph Smith because it matches the prophetic template in scripture about him.

This was my reply to the fellow that emailed me-

Great catch. It appears as if that is the case. I had not noticed that. It is amazing that no one else has caught that over the years…. I will need to change it in the book and blog if that is correct.

I am going to need to research the original because the following snippet sounds like Joseph and in fact I think he has made similar remarks in other places about how the Lord raised him up in obscurity. Also the first commission and second commission statement is echoing what it says in section 88 and other passages.

 “I have risen up out of obscurity, but was looked up to when but a youth in temporal things. It is not necessary that God should give us all things in his first commission to us, but in his second; John saw the angel deliver the Gospel in the last days. . . . . . The small lights that God has given is sufficient to lead us out of Babylon, when we get out we shall have the greater light.”

I disagree that Joseph is saying that the “second commission” [and some of the other things said ] is a doctrine of the Devil. I believe that Joseph is referring specifically to Joshua’s claim that the spirit of Mathias the Apostle was resurrected in him.

I think there is some truth in some of the things that are attributed to what Joshua taught, regardless of whether he was an evil man or not.

Thanks for the heads up!

Here is his reply to my response

I agree that Joseph was specifically referring to the resurrection doctrine when calling it of the devil. (Was trying to show they were Joshua’s words and questionable because it was right next to something truly false)

And agree that there is truth and error mixed together everywhere, which was why I was not trying to invalidate the multiple commission CONCEPT, just this specific quotation.  Which made me sad because the quote was such a clear and strong identification of the concept.

And considering just how many quotations you used in your book to support these concepts, having one slip through like this still gives you a 99% success rate. I don’t want you thinking that I’m trying to throw rocks at you…on the contrary, I want to make sure your work is bullet proof.

I Almost Didn’t Check the Original Manuscript

I am currently going through a period of burn-out after 30 years of studying the scriptures and the history of the church, so I came close to simply removing the quote from my book and multiple blog posts without investigating this conundrum further, even though I intuitively believed those were the words of Joseph Smith and not Joshua the Jewish Minister.

However that little voice inside my head said, check out the original manuscript and compare it to the edited and possibly revised text in DHC and TPJS. So, I went to the Joseph Smith Papers Project and copied the text from the original into a word doc and then copied the text from the modern version (or should I say revision) right next to it so that I could see if any changes or omissions had been made.

The first thing that Jumped out at me is that the narrative was changed from a second person account to a first person account, just as the narrative in section 110 had been thusly altered.

The original says “While President Smith was relating this brief history of the Church of Christ in these last days..”

The official history says “While I was relating a brief history of the establishment of the Church of Christ in these last days..”

Although this is a common occurrence in the history of the church and apparently an accepted practice in those days, it pisses me off that they did that. It does seem appropriate to me.

While comparing the official church history text with the original text, I have noticed several interesting things which I want to blog about sometime I the future.

For this post, I simply want to address the passages that I have attributed to Joseph Smith, even though, the official history seems to credit them to Joshua the Jewish Minister.

Again, here is the historical snippet in questions:

It is not necessary that God should give us all things at first, or in his first commission to us, but in his second John Saw the Angel deliver the gospel in the last days,

I would submit that Joseph Smith is declaring that his current ministry represented the “first commission“, wherein he restored the gospel and the church, and that sometime in the future, God would give him and his associates a second commission in which they would be given “all things”. During this second commission, the gospel is delivered by the angel in the LAST DAYS.

The person speaking is paraphrasing a passage from Rev 14:6-8

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication

What is the point that Joseph Smith is making relative to the angel delivering the gospel in the last days?

The concept seems somewhat disjointed and undeveloped as it transitions from the first watch and second watch, to the observation that the angel will deliver the gospel in the last days.

It becomes more clear once you see the part of the statement that was intentionally omitted in the official history of the church!

This is the quote that was originally recorded including the part that was omitted:

“It is not necessary that God should give us all things at first, or in his first commission to us, but in his second [commission to us] John Saw the Angel deliver the gospel in the last days, which would not be necessary if it were already in the world..”

Bingo

I believe that is a dead giveaway that Joseph Smith is the one that was speaking.

which would not be necessary

Here is the link to the manuscript at the Joseph Smith Papers site

Joseph Smith is proving to Joshua that the reason the “angel flying in the midst of heaven” needs to deliver the gospel IN THE LAST DAYS is because the saints who previously had the gospel would be in a state of apostasy.

That is the foundational premise that the church and gospel needed to be restored in the last days!

There is no way Joshua would understood that, and been teaching it to Joseph.

Joseph was clearly revealing that to Joshua!

It appears the revisionists chose to omit that last part of the declaration.

I can think of a few reasons why they might have wanted to do what they did. But that is a topic for another day.

Bottom-line: I am sticking with my claim that those are the words of Joseph Smith because that is a mystery only Joseph Smith would have known. The whole reason for Joseph Smith’s ministry and the restoration is because the gospel had been taken from the earth!

But the mystery being revealed is even deeper than many realize.

Prophecy has a Dual Fulfillment

It is commonly believed by many latter day saints that the prophesy about the “angel flying in the midst of heaven”, in Rev 14:6-8 was fulfilled during Joseph Smith’s first commission in the LDS restoration movement.

It is believed that Moroni’s visits to bring forth the Book of Mormon fulfilled the prophecy.

Since virtually all prophecies have a dual fulfillment I would agree that a SHADOW FULFILLMENT of that prophecy had taken place before this conversation between Joseph and Joshua was taking place.

However the LITERAL FULFILLMENT of the angel flying through the midst of heaven to deliver the gospel is yet to take place in the future, in the last days, during Joseph’s second commission.

“the Scripture is ready to be fulfilled…”

I have previously documented that Joseph Smith also believed that the literal fulfillment of that prophecy was to be a future event.

Here is a prophetic statement that Joseph Smith made during the Nauvoo era. In my opinion, Joseph is suggesting that he will be the angel with priesthood keys that John saw.

Regardless of whether my interpretation of the following quote, about Joseph being the angel is correct or not, it is clear that Joseph saw the Angel flying in the midst of heaven prophecy as a future event

..all the testimony is, that the Lord in the last days would commit the keys of the Priesthood to a witness over all people—has the Gospel of the Kingdom commenced in the last days? and will God take it from the man, until he takes him, himself?

I have read it precisely as the words flowed from the lips of Jesus Christ—John the Revelator saw an angel flying thro’ the midst of heaven, having the everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, &c.

the Scripture is ready to be fulfilled when great wars, famines, pestilence, great distress, judgements, &c are ready to be poured out on the Inhabitants of the Earth

John saw the angel having the holy Priesthood who should preach the everlasting gospel to all nations,—God had an angel, a special messenger, ordained, & prepared for that purpose in the last days—

Woe! Woe! be to that man, or set of men, who lift up their hands against God and his Witness in these last days. —for they shall deceive almost the very chosen ones—my apostate enemies say that I have been a true prophet—
(12 May 1844 (Sunday Morning). Temple Stand)

It is my belief that we are now living in the time that Joseph made reference to. Great wars, famines, pestilence, great distress, and judgements, are beginning to be poured out on the inhabitants of the earth and the angel that John saw is getting ready to deliver the gospel that has been lost from this world.

Thus we have another piece of revisionist history that is now exposed. It represents just one of many intentionally altered historical that have resulted in a revisionist history of the LDS restoration.

Shame on those who have altered the true history of Mormonism.

This is why I have provided a series called the secret history of Mormonism

(Those getting this post by email may need to go the blog to see the video links)


Weighed in the Balance: The Claims of Mauricio

November 4, 2017

On October 29th of 2017 various portions of the Latter day Saint Restoration from the RLDS tradition gathered at Zarahemla Branch located in Independence Missouri to hear the testimonies of Elder Joseph F. Smith and Seventy Bob Moore.

In their testimonies, they spoke of a trip they had made to Brazil to meet with a fellow by the name of Mauricio and his small congregation. According to Mauricio, he had received a series of visitations by the angels Raphael and Moroni beginning in April of 2007 and had since obtained possession of the Gold Plates, the Interpreter, and the Sword of Laban.

I was notified of this event by a friend of mine living in Missouri. She sent links to these two presentations the following day on October 30th.

On October 31st, at 2:37 AM I posted the links to these two presentation to the readers of my blog.

In that post I abstained from giving my opinion regarding the truthfulness and veracity of the claims being made. I simply gave the readers of this blog the opportunity to make themselves aware of a very interesting current event.

On November 1st of 2017 I published a follow up post inviting the readers of my blog to share their feelings about the testimonies so that I could share them in a future post.

This post represents the first of a three part series that will address the claims that have been made.

In this post I am going to share an email correspondence that I had with a reader of this blog that contains his current view, my current view, and a brief tally of belief or disbelief from those that have chosen to respond.

In part two of this series I will provide the detailed statements from those that have responded for everyone to read and ponder. Some of them contain some very interesting observations. They contain prophetic scripture to support or challenge the prophetic narrative that is being presented by Elder Smith, Seventy Moore, and Mauricio.

Since it is a well established fact that the readers of this blog are without a doubt the most intelligent, well read, informed, inspired, thoughtful, passionate, generous, humble, friendly, and by far the best looking of any other blog readers on the Internet, I think their comments should be of interest to the general public. LOL

In part three of this series, I will provide a detailed explanation of where I stand on these claims. In that post I will provide scriptures on doctrine and prophecy to substantiate my views on the remarkable claims that are being made.

Here is the most recent email I have received pertaining to the claims being made:

Watcher,

Thanks for sending out your post and the links to this presentation.

I am very happy to have watched all three hours or so of it.

The theme of the message in the videos is repentance and love for God and one another.

Those who delivered are humble and sincere.

This is the message of scripture, delivered in an appropriate, gentle way.

Many patterns I recognize.

I believe the message is divine.

I have prayed about this and will continue to do so.

Like you, I do not wish to be deceived, but as of this moment I feel as though God’s hand is in this work.

I want to know more about it.

What about you?

This was my response

Thank you so much for sharing your current feelings

Almost without exception, everyone that has contacted me agrees that Elder Smith and Seventy Moore appear to be honest and sincere and without guile.

Nobody seems to think they are trying to deceive anyone.

I agree with that also.

I do not believe they would fabricate the story or intentionally deceive… HOWEVER, there are two other possible deception points in this emerging narrative. The next one is with Mauricio who we have been given very limited access to.

 Again, I agree with you that important gospel concepts are integrated into the storyline such as repentance and love for God and each other. I also obviously agree about the current fallen state of the Gentiles and their (our) stiff necks and pride) However, those gospel ideals and concepts could be easily scripted by a deceiver.

Even if Mauricio is telling the truth about the visitations, the final potential deception point is with the heavenly messengers and whether or not they are from God or the dark side.

That is the primary indigestion point for me. Satan often prays upon sincere, naïve people and uses them to promote his deceptions.

I feel that their narrative needs to be scrutinized through the eyes of scripture to see if it is congruent with the prophetic template given in the Holy Word of God.

I confess that currently, I do not feel that the storyline is congruent with the prophetic end times template provided in scripture. But that is just one man’s opinion. 🙂

To date, here is the tally with regard to those that have weighed in on this topic. I was hoping to publish a follow up with the tally below and the details of how each person feels, but have not finished copying and pasting the responses into the post yet.

1 D (F)  Rejected

2 E  (M) Skeptical but open and hopeful

3 R  (M) Very Skeptical but open

4 J   (M)  First very excited.. then Very Skeptical but open… just changed to a Believer

5 G  (M) Skeptical but open

6 R (M) Total Believer

7 M (M) Very Open and Hopeful

8 E (M) Believer

8 L (F) Emphatically Rejected

9 J (M) Rejected

10 R  (F) Cautiously Hopeful

11 K (F) Hopeful

12 L (M) Skeptical but hopeful

13 D (M) Total Believer

14 V (M) Believer

15 MW (F) Rejected

16 E (M) Rejected

As you can see, there does not seem to be a consensus among those that responded.

Some fully believe.

Some fully reject the testimonies with regard to the ultimate truthfulness of the claims being made by Mauricio. ( they do not question the sincerity of Smith and Moore)

Others are still processing the information but are hopeful that the claims of Mauricio are true.

Either way, this is a wonderful opportunity for each of us to direct our minds and hearts towards the hope of Zion as we study, pray, exercise the gift of discernment and prepare our hearts.

We live in interesting times.

According to some of the scuttlebutt I am hearing from Missouri, there is much blowback and skepticism from competing factions of the RLDS tradition to the testimonies that have been given. Some feel that this is a scam developed by Mauricio to eventually ask for lots of money donated from believers.

Yet there appears to be a high degree of hopefulness among readers of my blog from the LDS (Mormon) tradition.

This is an interesting turn of events, given the fact that Mauricio, Elder Smith, and Seventy Moore seem to have a very low opinion and perhaps even distain, toward those from the Mormon tradition of the LDS restoration movement.

Until part two of this series, keep watching