The Unrestrained Ponderings and Pontifications of a Heretic

The Unrestrained Ponderings and Pontifications of a Heretic
Regarding the Book of Abraham, etc.

Patriarchal Priesthood
Abraham Ministers to his seed in Latter days
The Mystical Union of the Sexes- Composite Beings

[Editorial Note: Those interested in the topic of marriage, composite beings, the mystical union of the sexes and the
literal commandment for a man and woman to “become one flesh”, will also find this post of interest ]

It is interesting how intellectuals and scoffers try to judge and dismiss the doctrinal authenticity and accuracy of the papyrus and associated translation known as the Book of Abraham using scientific methods and the learning of man.

“Cursed is he who putteth his trust in the arm of flesh”

When viewed through the eyes of modern and ancient revelation, ancient Egyptian culture, events in the history of the LDS restoration movement and the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Book of Abraham speaks for itself.

The Book of Abraham in conjunction with other ancient and modern revelation reveals some fascinating doctrines and sheds lights on LDS Church history pertaining to the priesthood, delivering of priesthood keys in the latter days, composite beings and the

What Modern Revelation & the Book of Abraham
tells us about Priesthood

In the Book of Abraham, our Father Abraham tells us about his desire to seek the blessings of the fathers, possess great knowledge and to become a father of many nations. He had the right of the firstborn conferred upon him and sought for his appointment of God unto the Fathers:

“..And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

I sought for mine appointment unto the Priesthood according to the appointment of God unto the fathers concerning the seed” (Abr 1:2)

The Abrahamic Priesthood that enables one to give patriarchal blessings and to curse and bless others was given to Abraham and to his posterity.

And I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee” (Abr 2:11)

This priesthood of Abraham was eventually appointed unto Hyrum Smith via his father and the Lord by blessing and by right.

Additionally, in 1841 Hyrum was also appointed to be a prophet seer and revelator unto the church in concert with Joseph Smith.

“And again, verily I say unto you, let my servant William be appointed, ordained, and anointed, as counselor unto my servant Joseph, in the room of my servant Hyrum, that my servant Hyrum may take the office of Priesthood and Patriarch, which was appointed unto him by his father, by blessing and also by right;

That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people,
That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.And from this time forth I appoint unto him that he may be a prophet, and a seer, and a revelator unto my church, as well as my servant Joseph; That he may act in concert also with my servant Joseph; and that he shall receive counsel from my servant Joseph, who shall show unto him the keys whereby he may ask and receive, and be crowned with the same blessing, and glory, and honor, and priesthood, and gifts of the priesthood, that once were put upon him that was my servant Oliver Cowdery;That my servant Hyrum may bear record of the things which I shall show unto him, that his name may be had in honorable remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever.” (Section 124:91-96) 

A few years after this appointment of Hyrum in 1841, Joseph announced to the Church that Hyrum alone was now acting as the president of the Church.

“P.M. went to the Grove and heard Pres. J. preach on the law of the priesthood. He stated that Hyrum held the office of prophet to the church by birth-right & he was going to have a reformation and the saints must regard Hyrum for he had authority.” (Clayton Diary July 16, 1843)

“Said he would not prophecy any more.–Hyrum should be the prophet–“ (Mentioned in Letter of Williard Richards)

One week after telling the Saints that Hyrum would now lead the church and that he (Joseph Smith) would no longer prophesy, he made the following statements:

“….Last Monday morning, certain men came to me and said: “Brother Joseph, Hyrum is no Prophet — he can’t lead the Church — you must lead the Church! If you resign…all things will go wrong; you must not resign; if you do the Church will be scattered.

TPJS 318; Words of Joseph Smith 234)

In another discourse given on August 27, 1843 the Prophet Joseph Smith explained that there are three grand orders of Priesthood spoken of in the 7th chapter of Hebrews. The first, or lowest is the Levitical (Aaronic) Priesthood which was never able to administer a Blessing but only to bind heavy burdens which neither they nor their father [was] able to bear.

The 2nd or Higher Priesthood was Abrahams Patriarchal Priesthood. He explained that it had the power to administer saving ordinances & Build the Temple so that God will fill it with power. He then said that the Patriarchal Priesthood was the greatest yet experienced in this church. (This is in Nauvoo in 1843!)

He then explained that the Melchizedec Priesthood had greater power than patriarchal Priesthood, even power of an endless life. Abraham eventually obtained the Melchizedec Priesthood by offering his son. Joseph explained that the Melchizedec Priesthood had the power to open the windows of heaven.. (See WJS Pages 244-245)

It is interesting to note that Joseph Smith pointed out that there are three priesthoods but only two of those priesthoods are in the Church. He said the Patriarchal Priesthood is the greatest priesthood experienced yet in the Church, and he said that just before he died. in another talk he acknowledged that his current teachings about priesthood contradicted the following statement in the D&C:

There are, in the church, two priesthoods, namely, the Melchizedek and Aaronic, including the Levitical Priesthood.” (D&C 107:1)

Brigham Young seemed to agree with what Joseph said in the sermon, he said:

If any in the Church have the fulness of the Melchizedek Priesthood [I do] not know it” (Words of Joseph Smith 304)

It appears from the statements of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young that perhaps the Melchizedek Priesthood was in the “Church of Christ” for a brief period until the Gentiles rejected the fullness of the Gospel and failed to establish Zion by the appointed time.

Shortly after that, the Lord changed the name of the “Church of Christ” to the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints” and declared that “something new must be done for the salvation of the Church”. He then had the Prophet Joseph Smith send forth the twelve Apostles to establish foreign missions for the purpose of taking the gospel from the Gentiles to the “outcasts of Israel and the dispersed of Judah”.

It appears from statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith that both the Patriarchal Priesthood and the Aaronic Priesthood are appendages of the Melchizedec priesthood and they both may be used in the temporal church to help us get to the gate. However the Melchizedek Priesthood is not a part of the earthly priesthood order. It is obtained on the other side of the gate, admitting one into the Church of the Firstborn.

The first two priesthoods have to do with lineage and patriarchal right although callings and offices are confirmed by mortal priesthood authority. The fulness of Melchizedek Priesthood cannot be confirmed by mortal man. It is confirmed upon men by the calling of Gods own voice out of heaven. (For more information about the Melchizedec Priesthood and that associate powers to control the elements and translate people, read about Enoch and Melchizedek JST Gen 14. Moses 6&7, Alma 13

Replacing himself as the Prophet of the Church with his brother Hyrum is a remarkable event! Joseph called Hyrum to hold the same priesthood keys in presiding over the Church as himself in 1841 and then two years later he proclaimed to the Church that Hyrum was now the acting prophet of the church. He also notified that Saints that he would no longer be receiving revelations and commandments for the church.

Few people realize that this event was done in fulfillment of the prophecy and law of priesthood succession contained in section 43.

It stated that no one would be appointed to succeed Joseph before he died as long as HE IS FAITHFUL IN ABIDING IN THE LORD, however if power to receive revelations and prophecy should be taken from him, HE WOULD HAVE POWER TO APPOINT ANOTHER IN HIS STEAD TO RECEIVE REVELATIONS!

O hearken, ye elders of my church, and give ear to the words which I shall speak unto you. For behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, that ye have received a commandment for a law unto my church, through him whom I have appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand.

And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.

But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead. And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments;

And this I give unto you that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me. For verily I say unto you, that he that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before, to teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed.” (The law of priesthood succession D&C 43:1-7)

Hence we see that Joseph and Hyrum presided over the Church in concert for a time and then, then Hyrum replaced Joseph altogether as the Prophet Seer and Revelator of the of the Church. Notice how section 43 foretells that if Joseph needs to appoint another in his stead, the new person will be able to recieve revelations like Joseph Smith did. In section 124 the Lord makes it clear that Joseph was to counsel Hyrum on how to ask and recieve:

“..he shall receive counsel from my servant Joseph, who shall show unto him the keys whereby he may ask and receive”

Unfortunately, the Saints rejected Hyrum as the Prophet Seer and Revelator. Of course, for all intents and purposes, the Saints had already rejected Joseph in that they had taken lightly the Book of Mormon and the revelations he brought forth. According to the prophecy of Isaiah, the Lord was covering the eyes of the seers:

For behold, the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep. For behold, ye have closed your eyes, and ye have rejected the prophets; and your rulers, and the seers hath he covered because of your iniquity.” (2nd Ne 27)

The following diagram which has been used on other articles is a refresher on how the heavens had been closing after the failure of the Saints to redeem Zion by the appointed time in September 11 1836:


(Click on the graphic to enlarge)


The martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum after this event happened, set the church up for an interesting contest over who would lead the church. The succession issue is a fascinating topic. perhaps we will discuss at a later time.

In order to better understand patriarchal priesthood, let us get back to the Book of Abraham…

The Lord said to Abraham:

“..and in thee (that is, in thy priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy priesthood) for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say the literal seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed even with the blessings of the gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal…” Abr 2:10

In other words, Abrahams priesthood was in the literal seed of his body. The literal seed of his body was synonymous with his priesthood.


Phallus-Transmittal of Seed-Seed-Priesthood

It was not uncommon in ancient Egyptian culture to depict ithyphallic rulers & priests in their drawings and statues because an erect phallus not only represents fertility, but in fact also represents posterity, priesthood power and right of Kingship, indeed one of the great mysteries revealed in the Book of Abraham is that the term priesthood is synonymous with the literal seed of the body.

The picture above and the pictures below are typical of pictures and relics in ancient artifacts that appear to depict the ithyphallic Patriarchal Priesthood as being synonymous with the seed of the body and the power of procreation.

The Book of Abraham and the depictions contained therein are consistent with Ancient Egyptian Culture and the mysteries that were taught anciently to Abraham.

The following drawing is what it looked like when Joseph Smith gained possession of it.

It had some type of tear or water damage or some other type of damage that distorts or partially blocks the image. As with all things, this is no coincidence.

One wonders if it was according to the divine will of God that the image was incomplete and therefore more mysterious and controversial to those who would view it in the latter days.

The picture below is what the picture currently looks like in the current editions of the Doctrine and Covenants.

In his book, By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus, page 102, Charles Larson restores the scene according to the interpretation given by Egyptologists. He comments as follows: “Isis, meanwhile, has taken the form of a falcon and hovers over the groin of Osiris who holds his phallus (hence this is known as an ithyphallic drawing) in anticipation of the procreative act which will make Isis pregnant with their son Horus.”

Although Larson is a scoffer that appears to be devoid of the spirit of Revelation as evidence of his rejection of the Book of Abraham as being an authentic translation, he probably is correct in his determination that the original depiction included the phallus which represented the Holy Priesthood of Abraham.

Facsimile No. 2

Fig. 7 below represents God sitting upon his throne, revealing through the heavens the grand Key-words of the Priesthood; as, also, the sign of the Holy Ghost unto Abraham, in the form of a dove.

A close look at fig 7 reveals an ithyphallic image of God which represents his rightful priesthood dominion over the universe and the fact that the male portion of mankind was indeed created in the image of God, or in other words, the physical image of Adam was the same before and after Eve was taken out of him.

Ian Barber claims that in his newspaper in 1842, Joseph Smith reproduced an “explicit portrayal” of the erected phallus which then “offended Mormon sensibilities”. Later PGP editions whited out the phallic portion. But when the “triple combination” came out in 1981, Mormon leaders incredibly restored in Fig. 7 the long-censored “pornographic phallus” along with Joseph Smiths “interpretation” that these two images represent the “Holy Ghost” and “God sitting upon his throne”!!

“He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.” (Deut 23:1)

Of course, the creation story in the Book of Genesis and in particular the creation stories as related in the Book of Moses and the Book of Abraham reveals something very important about how man was spiritually created as a composite being consisting of male and female intelligence and how man becomes separated in a fallen state during this mortal probation with the opportunity to become reunited again into one fleshly tabernacle with the potential of becoming a glorified and exalted God.

It is not a coincidence that man and all of the other creatures EXCEPT the woman were formed from the dust of the ground.

The creation story reveals that Adam and Eve and all of their posterity had been spiritually created as living souls while in heaven during the sixth day of creation BEFORE being placed in the physical earth in physical bodies during the seventh day of creation. All things were created spiritually BEFORE they were naturally upon the face of the earth.

“And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air….   And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.” (Moses 3:5-7)

When originally organized into a living soul, God looked at the two intelligences that had been united together and “called their name Adam“. This does not mean that Adam and Eve were separate beings that were both named Adam, it means they were ONE being… a Composite being needing only one name. Adam was created in the image and likeness of God.. He was created from male and female intelligence just like God…

“…And this was the book of the generations of Adam, saying: In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; In the image of his own body, male and female, created he them, and blessed them and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created and became living souls in the land upon the footstool of God” (Moses 6:8)[Adam and all of his posterity were created as living souls in heaven during the sixth day of creation BEFORE Adam was formed out of the dust of the ground on this physical earth during the seventh day of creation! We were all created in heaven during the sixth day of creation in the image of Gods body which consists of both male and female intelligence!]

“And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air; But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul,  the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.” (Moses 3:7)

When the composite spiritual man ADAM was formed he was made in the same image and likeness of God…..

It was after that, that he was formed from the dust of the ground on this physical earth.

Modern revelation clears up an apparent discrepancy in the Old Testament where it has Adam being created on the sixth day and then again being formed from the dust of the earth on the seventh day. This does not make sense in the Old Testament account because it does not tell about the spiritual creation that took place in heaven, during the sixth day, before Adam was formed from the dust of the ground.

It was not until Eve’s spiritual intelligence was taken out of Adams physical body that she was given a separate and different physical body and therefore a different name than Adam. Hence we are informed that in the spiritual creation Adam and Eve and their spiritual posterity were all originally created as Composite/Androgynous beings.

The Fall of Adam was made possible by separating Adams female intelligence from his male intelligence. This is why several ancient texts teach that Adam became incomplete and imperfect when Eve was taken out of him. This is what made the fall of man possible:

“When Eve was still in Adam death did not exist, When she was separated from him death came into being. If he again becomes complete and attains his former self, death will be no more.”

“My God my God why have you forsaken me?” It was on the cross that he said these words, for it was there that he was divided.

“If the woman had not separated from the man, she would not die with the man. His separation became the beginning of death. Because of this Christ came to repair the separation which was from the beginning and again unite the two and to give life to those who died as a result of the separation and unite them. But the woman is united to her husband in the bridal chamber. Indeed those who have united in the bridal chamber will no longer be separated. ” (The Nag Hammadi Library James M. Robinson General Editor)

Can this be why some ancient writers state that women don’t have souls?  They are not saying women don’t have spirits, they are using the term soul the way the Doctrine and Covenants uses the term soul to mean the physical priesthood tabernacle that enables the male and female intelligence to be sealed or bound together.

The biblical quest of woman is to return to the condition she was originally created in…becoming reunited with her male part in its eternal state.

One of the first commandments that God gave to men and women is to get married so that they twain shall be one flesh.


Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

This concept is so disturbing to most people that they give vague non-literal explanations of what it means to become one flesh.. like spiritual unity or physical intimacy, etc. but actually the command is to be taken very literally. We are to return to the same state that we were created in, as a composite/androgynous  beings.

The gospel of Thomas quotes Peter as saying to Christ  ‘Make Mary leave us, for females don’t deserve life.’

Jesus said, ‘Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Thomas 114).

Indeed, every female that becomes male (united with a male) will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven! And every mortal male that fails to become sealed to a righteous female will remain incomplete and single and damned in their eternal progression, unable to procreate as Gods.

Hence this is why the new testament reminds us:

neither is the man without the woman neither the woman without the man in the Lord

When the Lord commanded the Saints to go to the Ohio to receive the higher law of consecration (which is an appendage of the everlasting covenant of Baptism wherein we loose our individual identity and assimilate into the image of Christ) given in section 42 of the D&C, one of the most important parts of Celestial Law contained in that section is the eternal law of monogamous fidelity in marriage that is mandatory for celestial law to be fulfilled.

Those who live the higher law of marriage (one man with one woman) which is part of the everlasting covenant of consecrated baptism have the potential to live in the highest celestial glory:

“In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees: And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into his order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He can enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have increase.” D&C 131:1-4

Referring to the mystical creation of one wife and one husband bound together in a composite soul in heaven and the requirement to enter an earthly probation as an incomplete single intelligence with the commandment to unite with the opposite gender and become one flesh again, section 49 states:

” Wherefore it is lawful that he should have one wife, and they twain shall be one flesh, and all this that the earth might answer the end of its creation; And that it might be filled with the measure of man, according to his creation before the world was made.”

One of the diagrams found from the general timeframe and culture of Abraham is a composite deity that resembles the Great half man, half woman, Mother/Father who was shown as a winged goddess with leonine feet, an erect phallus and three heads – 1- a lion head wearing Min’s headdress 2- a woman’s head wearing the double crown of Egypt and 3- a vulture’s head wearing the red crown of Lower Egypt.

This composite being appears to be a representation of a being consisting of a male and female intelligence sealed together by the holy spirit of promise.

The Book of Revelation speaks of the 144,000 as being “high priests” (usually a male term) but it also speaks of them as being “virgins” (usually a female term)… why? Because in order to receive the mark of Godhood in your forehead you need to become a composite being composed of male and female intelligence to become perfect and complete.

The saviour said: “I am alpha (representative of the male gender in the Greek) and omega (representative of the female gender in the Greek), the first and the last, the beginning and the end

Interestingly enough the concept that God is a composite/androgynous being composed of male and female, although a mystery to most people, was actually taught by by Erastus Snow, an LDS general authority:

“What,” says one, “do you mean we should understand that deity consists of man and woman?” Most certainly I do. If I believe anything that God has ever said about himself, and anything pertaining to the creation and organization of man upon the earth, I must believe that Deity consists of man and woman.

Now this is simplifying it down to our understanding, and the great Christian world will be ready to open their mouths and cry, “Blasphemy! Sacrilege!” Open wide their eyes and wide their mouths in the utmost astonishment. What! God a man and woman? . . .

I sometimes illustrate this matter by taking up a pair of shears, if I have one, but then you all know they are composed of two halves, but they are necessarily parts, one of another, and to perform their work for each other, as designed, they belong together, and
neither one of them is fitted for the accomplishment of their works alone. And for this reason says St. Paul, “the man is not without the woman, nor the woman without the man in the Lord.

In other words, there can be no God except he is composed of the man and woman united, and there is not in all the eternities that exist, nor ever will be, a God in any other way. I have another description: There never was a God, and there never will be in all eternities, except they are made of these two component parts; a man and a woman; the male and the female..

. . and there is no Lord, there is no God in which the two principles are not blended, nor can be; and we may never hope to attain unto the eternal power and the Godhead upon any other principle. . . ” (ES, JD 19:266-270)

As hard as LDS fundamentists try to contend that Christ was a mortal, married, polygamous father with children, the simple fact of the matter is that Celestial Law requires monogamy except in unusual temporary situations where a larger posterity is needed.

As pointed out in previous posts, when the spiritual creation took place, before the composite man Adam was put into the garden and eventually had his female intelligence separated from his male intelligence, all were created as composite beings. It was at that time that we were created in the express image of God… not after the fall and separation. The purpose of the atonement (At-One-Ment) is to bring our souls back to their original composite state with our final glory.

In a discourse given on July 9th 1843 the prophet Joseph Smith said;

And through the atonement of Christ and the resurrection and obedience in the Gospel we shall again be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus Christ, then we shall have attained to the image, glory and charactor of God.” ( HC 5:498-500)

From this it is evident that we are not currently in the image of God in our fallen state. It is because of the At-One-Ment that we shall be comformed to the image of God.

Furthermore, Christ was not a mortal man.

After he had achieved a state of Godhood prior to coming to this earth. He created the heavens and the earth. He then condescended and came to earth to provide an infinate and eternal atonement.

It was the fact that he was a God when he came into this world the enabled him to provide the perfect atonement for fallen mankind. He was not a mortal man, he was a GOD.

“I God have suffered these things for all…” (D&C 19)

This is why he never committed sin. This is why he was baptized to fulfill all righteousness instead of for the remission of sins.

The Book of Mormon reveals that the atonement of Christ was not a human sacrifice!

A human sacrifice would not have the necessary power to save us from our sins, it took a perfect GOD to provide a perfect and eternal atonement for mankind….

“And now, behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.

For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.

For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a scrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.

Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay.

But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.

Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.

And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal. ” (Alma 34:10-14)

In another paper we will discuss the difference between the true doctrine of “Biblical Polygamy” vs the “Spiritual Wife” Doctrine that crept into the Mormonism AFTER the Saints broke the everlasting covenant and failed to meet the bridegroom at the appointed time.

In that paper we will show numerous problems and inconsistencies in section 132 and we will show that the “spiritual wife” doctrine has never been taught in the Bible, Book of Mormon or the authentic revelations received through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

Abraham is a Ministering Angel to his seed in a strange land

In the 2nd chapter of the Book of Abraham the Lord reveals to Abraham that he will be a ministering angel to his seed after he dies.

But I, Abraham, and Lot, my brother’s son, prayed unto the Lord, and the Lord appeared unto me, and said unto me: Arise, and take Lot with thee; for I have purposed to take thee away out of Haran, and to make of thee a minister to bear my name in a strange land which I will give unto thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession, when they hearken to my voice.

For I am the Lord thy God; I dwell in heaven; the earth is my footstool; I stretch my hand over the sea, and it obeys my voice; I cause the wind and the fire to be my chariot; I say to the mountains—Depart hence—and behold, they are taken away by a whirlwind, in an instant, suddenly.

My name is Jehovah, and I know the end from the beginning; therefore my hand shall be over thee. And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and Priesthood unto all nations;

And I will bless them through thy name; for as many as receive this Gospel shall be called after thy name, and shall be accounted thy seed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their father;

And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.” (Abr 2)

The Lord is telling Abraham that after he dies-

  • He will minister to his seed as a ministering angel!
  • His seed will become a great nation
  • His seed will be in a strange land that the Lord will eventually give to them.

This incredible event where our Father Abraham came as a ministering angel to his seed in the latter days has taken place! In fact it took place over 160 years ago, and yet many Latter day Saints are unaware that Father Abraham has ministered to the Latter day Saints.

Many Latter day Saints are unaware that our Father Abraham was the one referred to as Elias who appeared to Joseph and Oliver along with Moses and Elijah at the Kirtland Temple. It appears the Prophet Joseph Smith was commanded to use the name Elias as a code name for Abraham. The name Elias means forerunner or to prepare the way. It can actually apply to virtually any messenger.

Leaders and scholars of the LDS church have speculated that the ministering angel referred to as Elias that came to the Kirtland Temple might have been Gabriel, Noah & John the Baptist. Perhaps the most popular suggestion comes from Bruce R. McConkie, who suggested that this Elias was a prophet who lived at the time of Abraham. (That is oddly never mentioned in the Old Testament)

The fact that we Latter day Saints have been unable to arrive at the obvious deductions that Abraham is the one that delivered the Gospel of Abraham to Joseph and Oliver is a testament that blindness is over Israel!

On April 3rd 1836 Father Abraham came as a ministering angel to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple and committed to them the dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham. Compare  Abr 2:6-11 & D&C 110:12

Have you ever wondered why we needed to have the gospel of Abraham delivered to the earth in 1836 if the Gospel of Jesus Christ was already delivered? Are the powers and priesthoods associated with the Gospel of Abraham a step up or a step down from the powers and authorities associated with the Gospel of Christ?

Even though God had told the Latter day Saints that they were the “Children of Israel” and they were the literal sons of Jacob who were the “lawful heirs according to the flesh” It becomes apparent that blindness was still over latter day Israel’s and will continue to be until the 3rd Watch or Dispensation of the Fulness of Times comes in. God wanted to keep some things hidden until the appropriate time.

Perhaps another reason why the Saints have been blinded to the fact that Elias was a code name for Abraham is because Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery did not reveal the vision contained in section 110 of the Doctrine and Covenants to the Saints in Kirtland. They simply had their scribe, the brother of Oliver Cowdery write the event in a journal and they never mentioned the event during the remaining eight years up to the martyrdom.

Clearly God commanded Joseph and Oliver to keep this incredible event a secret from the Latter day Saints. The transferring of messages and priesthood keys from Moses, Elijah and Abraham was not published in the Doctrine and Covenants until 1876… 40 years later! Why did God want the Saints to wait for the space of a biblical generation before realizing that ministering angels appeared and transacted very important business with the sons of Moses and Aaron in the Kirtland Temple?

By 1876 the doctrinal beliefs of the Saints were pretty much entrenched, the minds of the Saints were quite a bit more darkened and doctrinal scholars in the 1870’s were clueless about who Elias was or why the Saints needed the Gospel of Abraham in addition to the fulness of the Gospel of Christ.

There are probably numerous reasons that the Lord wanted to keep the appearance of Christ, Moses, Abraham and Elijah to the latter day children of Israel cryptic and concealed…

Perhaps one of them is that if the Latter day Saints would have understood that Abraham literally visited them in America as his seed, they would have realized that the Land of America is the true land promised to the seed of Abraham in the last days and all of the ancient prophecies about the seed of Abraham, Judah and Israel pertain directly to the Later Day Saints and other remnants of Israel in American, not to the Ashkenazi Jews over in the Old World.

Indeed the Book of Mormon teaches that the real Jews who rejected Christ at the meridian of time have been scattered among the gentiles and many have begun to believe in Christ and have joined the LDS faith.

One has to wonder if another reason for keeping this event secret is that it reveals that after the Gentiles rejected the Gospel, broke the everlasting covenant and defiled the Kirtland Temple, God changed the name of the Church and took the gospel from the Gentiles to the Jews who had mingled among the gentile nations.

Can it be that in 1836, after failing to redeem Zion at the appointed time, God was downgrading the Saints from the Gospel of Jesus Christ which was governed by the Melchizedek Priesthood to the Gospel of Abraham which is governed by the Abrahamic Priesthood?

This would explain the apparent discrepancy wherein Joseph Smith declared that the only two priesthoods in the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints” were the Aaronic and Patriarchal Priesthoods even though he had previously stated that the only two priesthoods in the “Church of Christ” were the Aaronic and Melchizedek.

Shortly after the event at the Kirtland Temple and after the failure of the Saints to establish Zion at the appointed time on September 11 1836, Joseph Smith made the following observation’

“Something new must be done for the Salvation of the Church”

He then commissioned the twelve apostles to establish foreign missions for the gathering of the dispersed of Judah.

Moses had prophesied that the time would come when the blessing and the cursing would again be placed upon latter day Israel. Is it possible that the blessing and the cursing took place at the Kirtland temple without anyone realizing it? (Deut 30)

Certainly the acceptance of the Kirtland Temple by Christ and the past and future endowments associated with it was a tremendous blessing, yet the possible switching from the Melchizedek Priesthood to the Patriarchal Priesthood by which to govern the Church and the ominous declaration by Elijah the Prophet indicating that the curse would eventually go forth from the Kirtland Temple would constitute a cursing to those who refuse to repent when the messengers go forth for the last time in the 3rd Watch.

It is interesting to note that even the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland Temple that was offered 8 days before the appearance of Moses Elijah and Abraham was also withheld from being canonized. It was also introduced into the Doctrine and Covenants 40 years later in 1876. In it God reveals where the real Jerusalem of last days prophecy is really located!

In the dedicatory prayer the Leaders of the church were identified as the literal sons of Jacob and Kirtland was identified as the Jerusalem of the Latter days…. not to be confused with the New Jerusalem that was to be in Jackson county.

Another possible reason the Saints were not to know about the literal visit from Abraham is because it would have indicated that America is the land where the posterity of Abraham was to wander for 400 years and then that nation will be judged by the Lord God of Israel.

Are you ready for the ultimate consummation of the blessing and the cursing upon the heads of Abrahams posterity?

25 Responses to The Unrestrained Ponderings and Pontifications of a Heretic

  1. This post was published at but I decided to remove it so that new information concerning a previous post with an offer could be more exposure.

    There were some interesting comments however so I am including them here:


    # Comment by Joseph on December 1, 2008 5:03 pm

    I just wanted to note that I enjoyed this post. I especially enjoyed the discussion of the facsimiles. As usual (and that’s not just with this blog, I have this bad habit in many situations), I did not agree with everything. I might discuss those issues if I feel up to it tomorrow. But an interesting post.


    # Comment by interested33 on December 1, 2008 7:16 pm

    I very much enjoyed this post also! I’m also excited to see what Joseph did not agree with.
    I have a hard time disagreeing with most of it.. Some aspects I’m just not sure. In all of your posts that I’ve read you use the word of God(and a lot of it.) as your main backing and I appreciate that. I hate it when people argue scriptural doctrine with anything but scriptural doctrine so I hope to see some rebuttals by better scriptorians than myself.
    I was shocked when I heard that the Church changed it’s name after being chased out of Kirtland. After much study I found that Gods Church has always been called simply The Church of Christ… Until 1836… You give some pretty interesting reasoning for that.
    Thanks again

    # Comment by Joseph Owen on December 2, 2008 9:09 am

    Okay, I feel more up to talking about my main issue with this post today. But first I need something clarified. Are you implying that when Joseph Smith began taking plural wives he began to have less revelation? If so, there is a major hole in your argument since there is plenty of evidence Joseph Smith began taking plural wives not in 1841, but 1831. 1835 at the latest (Richard Bushman’s Rough Stone Rolling gives the most reserved account, and the most generous in giving Joseph Smith the benefit of the doubt, of this. Fawn Brodie’s well-researched but poorly written treatise on this is pretty much unreadable to me). That timing knocks out a large amount of the important revelations you list. And the Book of Abraham. And as far as Hyrum taking over because he was more righteous, that may be, but he was also sealed to multiple wives (and he was sealed to them, not just married for time). I’m not siding with any fundamentalists, and I’m not claiming to understand polygamy entirely, but it is a part of Church history that can’t be simply dismissed as apostate if you are going to take Joseph Smith seriously as a prophet (I realize there are some reading this who do not take Joseph Smith seriously, which I respect, but disagree with). Your idea of heaven more closely matches Swedenbourg than it does Joseph Smith. I like Swedenbourg, but, like William Blake, I sometimes feel Swedenbourg was holding a candle up to the sunlight, and there are those I take more seriously than Swedenbourg, such as Joseph Smith.

    Anyway, back to what I liked about the post: I enjoyed seeing the Gospel of Thomas quoted. I personally view the Nag Hammadi library as being Christian scripture, and not gnostic as it is often dismissed as. And the Secret Gospel of John does support your idea of Adam and Eve being created as an androgynous being. Whether they are to become so again in the same way is an interesting idea, but not one I’m convinced of.

    Just some thoughts. Thank you once again for another interesting post.

    # Comment by onewhoiswatching on December 2, 2008 11:12 am


    You bring up some great points and observations regarding Joseph Smith and polygamy. I appreciate the thought you have put into this.

    The topic of Joseph Smiths involvement in Polygamy weighs heavily on lots of peoples minds and I believe it is an issue that is going to be coming up again here in the near future, so we need to address it as uncomfortable as it may be…

    First let me reiterate what should be apparent to anyone who has read my posts at three watches, that I take Joseph Smith VERY seriously. He was and is a prophet. He was the real deal. ( )

    However we have been indoctrinated to have a sanitized definition of what a prophet is, what they do and how they act. We have adopted a practical, logical way of how we think a prophet should act…… But perhaps the Lord uses prophets differently that who we think he should use them….. “your ways are not my ways neither are your thoughts my thoughts my thoughts saith the Lord”

    Regarding the issue you are commenting on… please remember that “Biblical Polygamy” and the “Spiritual Wife” doctrine are two completely separate and distinct doctrines. Biblical Polygamy did not include the belief that you needed to have multiple wives to get to the highest kingdom. The Spiritual Wife doctrine included aspects of Polygamy but also included other things and beliefs as well. It is a mistake to lump the two together and assume they are synonymous.

    Polygamy has to do with creating a larger posterity under unusual circumstances with very specific guidelines. It pertains to the patriarchal priesthood and that is why Abraham and Jacob practiced it.

    Under the best of circumstances, it is a burden for everyone involved with it. It should also be noted that the Children of Israel practiced it while wandering in the wilderness also and they were a terrestrial people at best.

    The lessor law including the practice of polygamy was given by Israel as a cursing to the Children of Israel. It is important to remember that God was going to wipe them off the face of the earth and would have done it if Moses had not offered himself as an atonement for them… he acted as an intercessor to prolong their lives upon the earth.

    Hence, polygamy is substantiated in the Old and New Testament and the Book of Mormon. To the extent that Joseph Smith and/or Hyrum may have practiced it, as members of the royal lineage and probably direct decendants of Abraham, Jacob and Moses I have no issue with it.

    The Spiritual Wife doctrine is another topic all together. The doctrine that one must have multiple wives sealed to them to gain the highest salvation is of course contrary to the plain and simple gospel of Jesus Christ.

    The true Gospel of Jesus Christ simply requires faith, repentance and baptism of water, fire and the Holy Ghost. Those principles and ordinances within the magnificent and merciful grace of God has the power, through the atonement of Jesus Christ to get someone through the gate and into the highest level of salvation available. The scriptures reiterate this time and again.

    Everyone who becomes sanctified through the Gospel of Jesus Christ puts off the natural man and becomes a new creature of the Holy Ghost. They lose their personal identity and take upon themselves the name of Christ. ( The following website provides a wonderful summary of how simple the Gospel is, see This does not imply that the author of that website agrees with anything I am saying)

    When on the earth during certain times when God has established his Church, such new creatures are commanded to GATHER and CONSECRATE… hence, the law of consecration is simply an extension of the baptismal covenant which brings the sanctified believers into a state of temporal and spiritual oneness with God and his people.

    The Apostle Paul warned that anything beyond these simple principles with the whole focus and credit being on the grace of God and the atonement of Jesus Christ constitutes ANOTHER GOSPEL.

    Whether Joseph Smith taught and practiced the spiritual wife doctrine is up to each individual to determine for themselves. If one should determine that Joseph Smith did in fact teach and practice it, then they must determine for themselves if they want to believe it… and deviate from the path of salvation outlined in Gods word.

    For those that believe, as I do, that Joseph Smith was and is a true prophet, and that he very probably did in fact teach and practice that doctrine, and that in fact it is not a doctrine that can be supported in Gods holy and infallible word, there is in fact an explanation for what took place during the years that followed the Saints rejection of the fulness of the gospel and their failure to redeem Zion by the appointed time..

    Joseph Smith claimed to be Gods last witness and the last great prophet that came though the loins of David. He has and will yet provide the last testimony to the world.

    The scriptures provide a very detailed profile of the Davidic servant and one of the things provided in this profile is the fact that the Davidic Servant of the last days will “commit iniquity” AFTER building the temple of the Lord.

    If in fact Joseph Smith did do the things he is accused of doing, the iniquity that was committed provides yet another witness that he is who he claimed to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There is a doctrine outlined in the scriptures that I refer to as the scapegoat/intercessor doctrine. I have toyed with the idea of presenting it on this forum… perhaps some day I will… but for now I would simply throw out some suggested reading that might provide an explanation as to how a prophet of the Lord can first offer the higher law to God’s people and then, after they reject it, the prophet can offer himself as an atonement in behalf of the apostate people… but you need to realize that by so doing, the holy prophet takes the sins of the people upon his own head… he becomes an intercessor for them…. but he is forced to enact their sins.

    The life of Moses provides a very important key when trying to understand the life of he who is LIKE UNTO MOSES.

    Study the life of Moses and study the SIN OF MOSES and how he atoned for apostate Israel.

    Notice how he enacted their sins in his own life after offering himself to the Lord as an atonement… it cost him is life and took away the privilege of entering the promised land… (I realize that some in the Church believe that Moses was translated but that doctrine is contrary to the Word of God, including the JST version)

    Read Lev 16 very carefully… it provided the details of how the atonement process works and in fact, all of the statutes, including the atonement statute is really an “enactment” of future events.

    Moses committed a very grievous “sin” in the sight of the Lord yet he only committed it because of his intercessory atonement in behalf of Israel.

    It is interesting that even after the Lord prevented Moses from entering into the promised land and took Moses life, the word of the Lord throughout the scriptures makes it clear that Moses’ salvation was secure and he was dearly beloved of the Lord for his service and offering. He even returned to the earth as a ministering angel on several occasions.

    You can be sure that if the one who is like unto Moses committed a grievous sin in the sight of God, it was because he, like Moses, was simply offering up an intercessory atonement for an apostate people that artificially placed the sins of Israel upon his head. HIs offering prolonged the temporal existence of an apostate people upon the face of this land. It prolonged the judgment of this nation which is about to take place.

    Clearly, Joseph Smith is one of the greatest prophets to every walk this earth…

    You brought up the point that there may be evidence that Joseph was possibly involved in polygamy prior to 1841. I have read those accounts and am not as convinced that they are credible, however, even if they are , I would suggest that those situations probably fell under the guidelines of the biblical principle of polygamy, which would not be a problem from a doctrinal point of view.

    There is not evidence that he was taking other peoples wives back at that time.

    Keep in mind that Sidney Rigdon was appointed by God to “prove the revelations” that Joseph Smith brought forth. He was the designated defender of the faith. We as referred to as a “walking bible”. He was the one that was out debating those who were challenging Mormonism.

    One of the reason Joseph had to keep his revelation secret is that Rigdon refused to defend it. When Rigdon claimed it was a false doctrine.

    William Marks was one of the most noble men in the history of the Church. He was a man without guile. He had been appointed to be the Stake President in Nauvoo.

    His testimony is that shortly before the martyrdom Joseph met him in the street and proclaimed “We are a ruined people… this doctrine of polygamy or spiritual wife system that has been taught and practiced among us will prove our destruction and overthrow. I have been deceived…. it is wrong, it is a curse to mankind and we shall have to leave the United States soon unless it can be put down and its practice stopped in the church…”

    Here is an interesting observation by Ezekiel:

    “Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.

    Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name’s sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth.

    I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;

    Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers’ idols.

    Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live…”

    Additional reading material

  2. Joseph Owen says:

    Just correcting a spelling error from my last comment – Swedenbourg should have been Swedenborg. The computer tried to tell me it was wrong, but I don’t always listen to computers like I should I guess.

  3. Not entirely put together says:

    I’ve come across an interesting piece of semantic evidence for an androgynous Adam that I hope to post soon. But I wanted to ask you, Watching, when do you suppose the intelligences of the posterity of Adam were/are separated. That is, if Eve was not “built” from Adam until he had been created from the dust of the earth, then when did my intelligences, for example, split into two? Do the spiritually begotten sons and daughters of God have gender as stated in the The Family: A Proclamation to the World? Were dual intelligence spirits created in the image of God on the sixth day, followed by a “fashioning” of female spirits? And are these male and female spirits in the pre-existence awaiting tabernacles of clay? To borrow from another, what think ye?

  4. NEPT (BG)

    I thought you were an author or a blogger. Where may I see some of your work?

  5. Not entirely put together says:

    Actually, I don’t have a blog, nor am I an author (well, at least I’m not an author of anything relating to theology), but I thought I could add something, albeit little, to this discussion in the form of a comment. Recently I came across the idea of an androgynous Adam while reading a recent rendering of the Pentateuch into English by Robert Alter. I’m not sure if it has much merit, but it seems to support your article, even if only to a small degree. If you’d like, I can post it when I have a few moments to get it put together.

  6. I would love to see it.

    I can’t really respond to your previous question with any certainty as I have not really been able to find much more detail on the topic than what I wrote about.

    It appears to me that during the spiritual creation, when the intelligences of the human race were being spiritually organized, Adam, as a composite being was presiding and possibly being the procreator or primary procreator that was begetting us UNTO God.

    Whether he needed to separate temporarily to do the begetting or not is not clear but I tend to believe that it was not necessary as the process in that dimension is different and quicker than it is here.

    As a composite being, in the spiritual dimension that he was in, he was created in the same form and likeness when formed from the clay of this earth… as a composite being.

    I speculate that are two primary scenareos

    1- we were all composites at some point during the spiritual creation. Possibly we were each organized first as a male or female intelligence and then merged into a composite.. then we had to separate before ( and possibly, in order to ) come to this probation.

    2- The other possibility, and the one I lean towards, is that we were all organized as male and female intelligences from our previous states as unorganized female and male intelligences and never achieved a composite status in the spiritual creation… but could see from being in the presence of our creator that to become a whole, perfect being and receive a fulness of joy we needed to become “sealed” or “bound” together with the oposite force.

    The following statement in the Book of Abraham is interesting and may have to do with this:

    “if two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them..”

    How interesting that it is a given fact that there are two things that already exist and always have existed in the eternal sphere… yet there SHALL be another thing that is greater than either of the two things that have always existed. How can something be created, that did not already exist, that is greater than the two things that have always existed?

    The only possibility I can think of in a world where there are only two entities that have always existed, that are polar opposites, is to merge them together, forming a more perfect entity.

    Is it possible that in the world of organized and unorganized intelligences everything is and always has been either a male polarity or a female polarity and that in order to become perfectly whole, one of each of the opposing polarities must become merged or sealed together.

    “There must be opposition (opposing forces) in all things”

    Of course my wife is quick to remind me that it must have been the female intelligences that were “above” the male intelligences and that they were willing to merge with us in order to help us become all that we can be…

    Additionally, she reminds me that once she returns to the master ship, it is her, not me that will be piloting it… for that reason I am trying to enjoy my temporary, unrestrained freedom while I can.

    I must now beg leave from the school of the prophets to do some last minute Babylonian Christmas Shopping

    See you higher up, if not before.

    How in the world did you find this blog?

  7. Not entirely put together says:

    First of all, I was flattered to think you thought I was a blogger (although I expect a rather poor one). I then did the all-telling keyword search for “flatter” in the scriptures and, whoa…I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn’t flattery!

    I count myself fortunate to have found this blog by following the link you gave to Greigo’s (I don’t remember the exact spelling) when he asked about it in one of your recent articles.

    I haven’t had much time yet to put together the aforementioned comment on Adam, but I did have a follow-up question, one that is a little less metaphysical in nature. Did the polarization of the intelligences make the Fall possible, or is it equated with the Fall? I’m inclined to believe, as it seems you are too, that the separation of male and female intelligences could not have been the Fall itself given that resurrection, and hence, immortality, is possible for a divided intelligence, as you pointed out in the article. I suppose my real question is, as a literalist, you must consider the partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil to be the event that led to our first parents expulsion from the garden, am I correct? We’re not talking about a metaphor, right?

  8. […] include it in this post. A very important foundational work to the doctrine contained herein is the doctrine of composite beings which you may read about here. As always, credible documentation to the contrary and comments from skeptics are welcome as […]

  9. […] regarding this topic in this post although I have addressed this topic to some extent in “the Unrestrained Pondering and Pontifications of a Heretic” article. Let me just say that although the mystical union of the sexes and the doctrine of […]

  10. […] is but a description of the brains, too. Notice in particular, those of you who subscribe to the notion that we were initially created as dual, composite beings, male and female, that one brain is […]

  11. Truth says:

    How far we can strive from the truth. Reasoning all on it’s own can never give us understanding of the mysteries of God. After reading this post it just amazed me how far we can strive from the basic principles and doctrines of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and thus not comprehend or logically and soundly construct a structure of knowledge that can both support new revelation from God’s Spirit and Reconcile all truths without severing fundamental ones. All truth is in Harmony.

    The whole post is in ERROR.

    The simple and observable truth is that gender is an eternal quality that defines our very nature. There never was a time you didn’t have the cardinal attribute of gender.

    To believe that being a composite being equals being a blended being is not reasonable. Composite only means that 2 or more things enjoy union in such a way that they can act and react as one. It has nothing to do with proximity, or space, or material. Blended is not composite.

    To equate the scripture of one flesh to actually mean a blend of male and female, than the same logic can applied to our Lord Jesus Christ saying He is One with the Father, and even in stronger terms when He says He is the Father. We could then, conclude by how you interpret scripture, that they are actually physically one blended being all inhabiting the same space.

    But the scriptures specifically state that we are to understand that they are one in the perfect union they enjoy through the Spirit, and their equal perfection of attributes and powers.

    On polygamy there is enough evidence that states to the contrary of what your understanding.

    Not trying to be onerous but the interpretation and placement of scripture is so out of place that a good review of fundamentals should be taken.

  12. I’m sorry you feel uncomfortable with the doctrine but it was taught by general authorities and more importantly it is taught in the scriptures.

    The good news for those who don’t want to become one flesh with their companion is that you can remain as a single gender in the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms.


  13. Truth-

    The doctrine of composite beings, (for lack of a better term), that I have presented in the above article is backed up by a literal interpretation of the word of God from passages in the Old Testament (Genesis)New Testament (Matthew, 1st Cor) D&C (sections 42, 49, 131) PofGP (Moses) and numerous other esoteric and apocryphal writings that provide additional testimony and clarification to the references in the standard works.

    You have challenged the literal interpretation of these passages and the doctrine they teach using your OPINION which has been shaped by the false traditions of your fathers and an apostate religion.

    You made the following declaration-

    “The whole post is in ERROR.

    The simple and observable truth is that gender is an eternal quality that defines our very nature. There never was a time you didn’t have the cardinal attribute of gender.”

    That is a statement of opinion on your part.

    Why didn’t you back that statement up with the words of the prophets or the scriptures?

    The reason you cannot back up your belief that all people will continue eternally as a distinct gender, by credible documentation from the prophets or the word of God in the scriptures is because your position cannot be defended.

    The prophet Joseph Smith reminds us that we were created in the image of God prior to the fall of God when Adam and Eve and the rest of us became separated-

    “And through the atonement of Christ and the resurrection and obedience in the Gospel we shall AGAIN be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus Christ, then we shall have attained to the image, glory and character of God.” ( HC 5:498-500)

    The prophet explains that through the atonement, those who are obedient to the gospel will AGAIN be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

    Your belief that we always have been and always will be distinct and separate genders simply is not congruent with the word of God.

    Please note the following statement from the apostle Paul who teaches that once we are baptized into Christ, we loose our distinct gender-

    “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ.

    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, THERE IS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus” (JST Gal 3:28)

    Let me suggest that you swim in the shallow section of the pond with a real big life jacket on before you venture out into deeper waters.

    You are out of your element. You are in over your head in this forum.

    If you want to swim in the deeper waters, please read every post in the three watches blog and then every post in this blog.

    After that, if you want to add to the conversation, be sure to provide evidence from the holy and infallible word of God to back up your assumptions and interpretations.

    Thanks for visiting.


  14. Luis says:

    I found this very interesting in Eph.5:28-32

    28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

    29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

    30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

    32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

    33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband

    Interesting that Paul calls it a “Great Mystery”. Verse 28 is very interesting too. What think ye?

  15. Luis says:

    What think ye?

  16. Bruce says:

    i’ve just discovered your site and I’m very impressed. But the pictures on this article are not there….Could you please restore them or let me know where I can find them? Thanks!

  17. Ryan says:

    I guess that’s why JS refers to God the Father as Elohim, the plural form of god.

    Because he’s composite.

  18. stockoneder says:

    OWIW you said, “Celestial Law requires monogamy except in unusual temporary situations where a larger posterity is needed.”
    “Polygamy has to do with creating a larger posterity under unusual circumstances with very specific guidelines. It pertains to the patriarchal priesthood and that is why Abraham and Jacob practiced it.”
    I see no evidence of this ‘doctrine’, ‘law,’ policy or whatever in the scriptures. Where are those “specific guidelines” recorded? Why did Abraham and Jacob need a larger posterity than the one which came through the first wife line? Jacob got tricked into having two wives and then his wives convinced him to take concubines to have children through them but there is no evidence God ordered or directed that. Isaac and more importantly Rebekah had faith she would give birth as promised and even though it took decades it eventually happened. Abraham and Jacob and their wives didn’t demonstrate the same level of faith and thus the wives and concubines.
    God said in Jacob 2:25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph(non-polygamous descendants).
    If God needed to use this ‘doctrine’ to create a “larger posterity” why wasn’t it implemented in the case of Adam and Eve, Noah or Lehi? Certainly in those three cases a better case for it being necessary could be made than in the situation of Abraham and Jacob. And in their case the “righteous branch” did not come through their polygamous wives. Seems to me this was just a case of humans using their agency trying to fulfill a promise which God gave in their own way, while lacking in faith that he would fulfill it.

    I also don’t understand how a God can really sacrifice himself. God is eternal, so how can temporarily residing in a body of flesh and then choosing to let that flesh die, while knowing his spirit(which is all that really matters) lives on, be considered a sacrifice? God by definition is infinite and eternal no matter what. So he knew he couldn’t really die, no matter what. So what did He really sacrifice? Who or what determined that was an acceptable sacrifice to fulfill all righteousness and atone for all sin? Who or what was he trying to appease?

    • “Celestial Law requires monogamy except in unusual temporary situations where a larger posterity is needed.” “Polygamy has to do with creating a larger posterity under unusual circumstances with very specific guidelines. It pertains to the patriarchal priesthood and that is why Abraham and Jacob practiced it.”

      Who ever made that comment was full of s#*t!

      oops… did I make that comment?

      I guess I was full of s#*t!

      stockoneder you need to realize that I am on a learning curve just like everyone else. If you look at the date that post was given, it was shortly after the flood.

      This is why I have a strict policy of never telling people that there is no error in something I write.. the claim of doctrinal infallibility bites you in the butt every time.

      I don’t have the time to sift through everything I have ever written and correct everything I have ever said that was wrong. I actually have a life, although Mrs. Watcher might take exception to that.

      That is why my blogs have the disclaimer that the purpose of this site is to drive people back into the scriptures. The opinions given on this blog are the opinions of a wingnut heretic who is groping at the wall and trying to figure things out.

      Having said that, there was a law in ancient times where a man would take a deceased brothers wife and raise up seed to the brother. So, it is possible that under certain situations that a very specific form and practice of polygamy was entered into for the sole purpose of raising up seed. So, there may have been a strand of truth in what I postulated way back then. But it was not part of the law of the fulness of the gospel. So,

      I no longer believe that the Celestial Law of the gospel requires polygamy beyond obeying every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. By that I mean to say that I am not going to set up stakes as to what God can command someone in a unique situation.

      I believe that taking someones life is contrary to Gospel law, but I God tells me to Kill someone in a circumstance similar to the one Nephi was in, I’ll do it… I hope. 🙂

      “I also don’t understand how a God can really sacrifice himself”

      You are in good company. I doubt there is a mortal on the earth that understands how the condescension of God works. Thankfully one does not need to understand the details of something in order to have the child like faith to believe it.

      Great comments… way to hold my feet to the fire bro. I love eating crow. I think I am developing a taste for it!

  19. JennyP1969 says:

    Just wanted to throw a couple thoughts into the atonement puzzle.

    To pay the price for our own sins is beyond our mortal capacity to to. It’s not enough to satisfy the eternal laws of justice. We have what we call justice here on earth, but that changes at times. We mortals do our best to interpret circumstances and form laws to keep the peace and satisfy the demands of justice. We also do the same for mercy.

    Yet no matter how we try, we are imperfect. We cannot comprehend the fullest and most complete and thorough measures of either one.

    Our mortal flaws and sins are so egregious to eternal laws and to God that our finest effort to repent is woefully a mere scratch of the surface. We satisfy mortal definitions at times through our court systems. But those efforts neither comprehend nor satisfy the eternal laws, eternal justice, or eternal mercy.

    I watch my grandchildren playing surgeon with play tools and play clothes performing play operations. They try their very best to do the real thing, but children never will be able to successfully operate on each other. They rely on some of the overheard discussion of a couple dads and think they’re good to go. As they’ve grown over the years they’ve become much more detailed and proficient at their task. But in the end, they lack more than they are able to even comprehend to be perform true surgery.

    Are we not mere infants on the eternal developmental scale? No unclean thing can enter the presence of God, as the scriptures teach. The purest, most righteous mortal will still be filthy still as to being Eternally clean — or clean by the measure of the Eternal God. We cannot even comprehend how much we lack. We cannot comprehend our filthiness because we live among mortals who are filthy, every one. Not filthy like pond scum……just filthy like mortals compared to Eternal Holiness.

    We fell. Big time. Further than we can remember or discern. Even if each of us gave our own life to pay the price of our sins, it would not satisfy the Eternal law, nor render Eternal mercy. It would be an earnest effort like my grandchildren operating, but it doesn’t come close to being the real, effective, and successful deal.

    Some One who understands, comprehends, discerns, and is worthy had to make the sacrifice. The real deal had to do the real deal that paid the real price. I believe Heavenly Father set this standard, based on Eternal — Godly — laws we cannot fathom.

    A perfect Being had to pay for what we could never pay. We live in infinite filth — because all mortality is infinitely filthy. Some One far cleaner, holier, and Higher than us in comprehension of filth, justice, mercy, and redemption had to GIVE His mortality up to satisfy the demands of what it takes to rise up from our fallen state. We cannot raise ourselves because we are not capable in the slightest measure.

    The Laws, Justice, and Mercy are divine beyond our greatest Understanding in this fallen estate. We cannot fix what we don’t understand. We can’t atone for what we can’t comprehend. We need the Real Guy to come do it on our behalf. It’s probably merciful that we don’t fully understand all of this because if we did, we’d probably never recover from what we needed from our Savior. It takes a God to satisfy the demands of Godly Justice and Mercy, and to make us Clean on Their level.

    Your thoughts?

    • stockoneder says:

      What and who determine the “eternal laws of justice?” Did God create them? If not, is He subject to them?
      In D&C 29:36 God said His honor is His power. That seems to mean that He is honored by something(intelligence or spirit) he doesn’t(can’t ?) control and because that something honors Him it will do as he asks so if he were to do something dishonorable he would no longer have the same support(power).
      If so the big question is what does that something think is honorable behavior and why?
      We came from God’s presence where we were His spirit children, whom he somehow organized from independent and autonomous eternal intelligence or spirits. We obviously weren’t “filthy” then.
      Yet somehow by agreeing to enter mortal flesh and then becoming somewhat subject to it we became unclean? So we became “filthy” by joining with the bodies he made, through the process he created?
      Sounds like he has some responsibility for making us “filthy” then.

      OWIW I have struggled with the killing of Laban and the slaughter of innocents(especially children under the age of eight and all the non- warriors destroyed also) done by the Israelite’s on several occasions ordered by God. God could have caused Laban to die in so many ways and led Nephi to find him already dead yet for some reason He wanted Nephi to do it. Obviously our bodies are His property and only loaned to us but still seems to send a confusing message to us. Do what I say unless I tell you otherwise.
      I could never picture myself running a javelin through a child or hacking off a babies head as was done so many times in the OT(Joshua 6:21,Judges 21:10 and 1 Samuel 15:3 to name a few).
      I almost think the people who did those things were given a test and should have known it was wrong to do those things, but did it anyway and thus failed the test. Don’t see how that couldn’t cause one to have psychological damage at the very least even if it was really commanded by God. I could not do those things.

  20. JennyP1969 says:

    Stock…..I remember reading, I think it’s Lectures on Faith, that God is bound by Eternal laws. Who wrote them? No idea. But I do know it was Some One perfect in every way.

    Filthy — that’s the scriptural word. I find mortals, most anyway, to be wonderful, delightful, uplifting souls. But compared to perfect Beings of pure Light, I fall indescribably short. Yet, they love us more than we can discern. That’s why a Savior was provided to pay the debt we can’t ever pay. This estate, this fallen condition, this veil-drawn realm is necessary by God’s own decree. But He provides every needful thing to endure, to overcome a great deal, and to be redeemed because of the Savior. To what height will we reach while fallen? I believe we can reach far higher than we think we can.

    OT slaughter of innocents……I’m right there with you. I cannot understand the command to do it, the test He knew they would fail, and the horrible treatments of civilian men, women, and children. Laban’s death, likewise, troubles me. He was passed out drunk. By the time he awakened in the morning, he would have been hung over, and I doubt feeling up to gathering his 50 to give chase. Or why not strike him dead? Why not have him stumble and hit his head on the cobblestone? Why have a young man do something so brutal and un-godly? It makes no sense.

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