Seven Seals and a Paradisaical Millennium


The 8,000 Year Time Line of the Earth
By OneWhoIsWatching
www.threewatches.blogspot.com
www.onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com

I suppose one of the most stirring passages of scripture that characterizes the spirit of watching is found in the 1st Chapter of the Gospel of John.

There were  two disciples of John the Baptist that were with him on the occasion that John saw Christ and said “Behold the Son of God”.  At that point, these two disciples left John and began following Christ.

Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?

He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.

One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.

He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.”

These passages are exquisite to me every time I think about them. Can one comprehend what Andrew must have been feeling when he finally found the Messiah he had been waiting and watching for?

Can we comprehend how he felt as he was able to share the good news with his brother Peter who had also been watching for the Messiah?

Can we imagine what Peter must have been thinking and feeling when those words penetrated him?

The story line continues;

The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.

Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

What would it have been like to be Philip or Nathaniel?

Interestingly enough, during the 2nd watch, then Edward Partridge, one who had also been waiting and watching, traveled to meet the Lords Seer, the Lord compared Edward to Nathaniel of old;

And again, I have called my servant Edward Partridge; and I give a commandment, that he should be appointed by the voice of the church, and ordained a bishop unto the church, to leave his merchandise and to spend all his time in the labors of the church; To see to all things as it shall be appointed unto him in my laws in the day that I shall give them. And this because his heart is pure before me, for he is like unto Nathanael of old, in whom there is no guile.” D&C 41: 11

It appears that it was somewhat common knowledge among the Jews that a Messiah was to soon make his appearance. Even the remnants of the other tribes of Israel who were looked down upon by the Jews seemed to understand that it was the appointed time for the Messiah to appear as demonstrated by the Samarian woman at the well, who, when conversing with Christ acknowledged;

I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.” John 4: 25

It is truly amazing that after the 400 years of the heavens being closed since Malachi, that there was a group of believers who had studied the prophecies and were found waiting and watching for the Messiah and his forerunner.

It is not clear how the small group of watchers knew how they stood in time, whether it was mainly from personal revelation, from searching the scriptures, from the signs of the times, from the preaching of John the Baptist…  or a combination of all of the above.

I am reminded however of the words of Daniel who had been searching in the “books” to understand various time lines and where he stood in time;

“In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.” (Dan 9:2)

The scriptures are filled with time line related prophecies and the continual reminder of the importance for believers in all three watches to understand where they stand in time relative to the prophecies to be fulfilled in the day they live.

Yet most of the Jews were encompassed about in the cares of the world.

Interestingly, although many of the Jews embraced Christ as a prophet initially, they eventually allowed their corrupt and jealous leaders to turn them against Him.

There was only a small remnant that were earnestly waiting and watching in anticipatory zeal along with Andrew, Peter, Philip and Nathaniel. They were actively looking for him, and he was looking for each of them.

I love the scripture that says Jesus went forth to Galilee and “findeth Philip”.

The Savior said; “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me..”

My wife mentioned in a previous blog about how I became obsessed with doing scriptural word searches using infobases and other word crunching software back in the 1980’s, however she did not mention why I became so obsessed.

It all began in about September or October of 1988 when a friend named Eric who I had not seen for a few years, knocked on the door of my new home in Holiday Utah and told me he had a video I needed to see. It was about the “seven seals” and the “prophetic time line of the earth”.

That was a topic I had always had a keen interest in. I dropped everything and viewed it with great interest… little did I know that my life and my priorities were about to change dramatically.

In the video, a “Brother Nelson” (who was a young insurance salesman) was giving a seminar on the time line of the earth. He quoted many of the time line related scriptures found in the Book of Revelation and section 77 of the D&C.

I had previously read several articles about the seven thousand year time line including a 1983 Ensign article and I had been amazed at how incongruent all of the information I had seen had been with the revealed word of God.

The book of Revelation makes it clear that after the first six thousand years are fulfilled, the seventh seal opens and an hour of judgment takes place, following the hour of judgment, the millennium begins. Following the millennium, a little season takes place before the earth is celestialized. Clearly, the entire time line as revealed in the scriptures could not possibly fit into a seven thousand year time period.

The novel thing about the time line theory being promoted in the video by “Brother Nelson” was what I will refer to as the “overlap” theory.

In short, the theory proposed that the sixth seal and the seventh seal overlapped each other and that the seventh seal began before the sixth seal finished.

Eric and I went to the next scheduled time line seminar to hear the time line presentation in person. While watching the video, I had had a strong impression that that the person who had originated the overlap interpretation was actually someone other than Brother Nelson. After attending a live presentation I asked Brother Nelson if he would be kind enough to give me the contact information of the person who had originated the theory and taught him what he was teaching.

My question surprised him because he was teaching the information as if he had discovered the concepts of the theory from the scriptures himself, but with a little further prodding he finally gave me the name and phone number of a “Brother Edmonds” who lived in Mapleton Utah.

Eric and I contacted Brother Edmonds and requested a meeting with him. If my aging memory serves me correctly, we sat spell bound from about 4 PM to about 4 Am in his living room as he shared with us his version of the divine time line of the earth and the associated prophesies of the last days.

We then returned the following day and had another all night session.

Brother Edmonds was an elderly mam who had been a convert to the Church. As I recall, he was part Indian. I would describe him as fascinating, passionate, eccentric and fanatic… all in a good way. He had a very harsh warning for those who had not prepared temporally for the judgments that were about to hit the world.

He had a self contained retreat that could function off the grid. He had developed an apparatus for generating his own electricity and a large barracks filled with food storage, clothing and survival equipment. He was financially independent and was somewhat of an alchemist who had developed a secret process for refining gold.

Brother Edmonds claimed to have been very close personal friends with President Joseph Fielding Smith and other prophets of the Church. He claimed that the divine time line, including the overlap theory which he taught had been taught to him by President Smith.

As Brother Edmonds shared the parable of the goodman of the house who was to be watching lest the thief come and break in, etc., the message penetrated my heart in such a way that changed my life forever. I feel as it I have been sleeping with one eye open ever since!

That  was the experience 21 years ago that got me searching the scriptures in a much deeper way than I have ever searched them before.

Following that experience I purchased some scripture searching software and became obsessed with doing key word, key phrase and key topic searches. There were days I would spend 8- 10 hours at a time following the various search strings I was working on.

Although the topics I began with was that of the divine time line of the earth and end times prophecy, I soon found that every topic I would search would lead me to several other gospel topics and on and on. The more I learned, the more I realized how little I knew! I have now studied enough to realize I know NOTHING! lol

In the weeks following my initial visit with Brother Edmonds I began researching what President Joseph Fielding Smith had written about the divine time line of the earth.

After reading what he said in Doctrines of Salvation, I was shocked to find that President Smith had taught something quite different than what Brother Edmonds was teaching. To my surprise, President Smith did not teach about the overlapping of the sixth and seventh seal and a seven thousand year timeline, in fact, he taught that the divine time line actually consisted of eight thousand years instead of seven thousand years!

We have evidence beyond dispute that Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden about 6,000 years ago, or perhaps a short time less. It is possible using bible chronology and that given by the Lord in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants to figure this almost accurately… Moreover, our Savior came in the meridian of time… This means that it was about half way from the beginning of “time” to the end of “time”. Anyone who desires can figure it for himself that our Lord came about 4,000 years from the time of the fall. The millennium is to come some time following the 2,000 years following to 2,000 years after his coming. then there is to be the millennium for 1,000 years, and following that a “little season” the length of which is not revealed but which may bring “time to its end about 8,000 years from the beginning.” (Page79-81 Volume One Doctrines of Salvation See also the thesis of Arch Bishop Ussher who spent his life studying the time line of the earth from a literal interpretation of the Bible)

President Smith taught, according to my interpretation of his writings and in conjunction with the word searches I have done, that the seven seals mentioned in the book of Revelation did not represent the entire time line of the earth.. it only had reference to the seven thousand year portion of temporal time that the earth is passing through but he revealed that during the seventh seal, the earth would leave temporal time and go into eternity where it would experience a paradisaical millennium. It would leave this telestial order shortly after the seventh seal begins and go into a paradisaical (terrestrial) order. It would be gone from our telestial reckoning of time for the space of a thousand years and then it would return back to temporal time and finish the remainder of the seventh seal in temporal time.

He taught that the paradisaical millennium that takes place in eternity was separate and distinct from each of the seven millenniums that take place in temporal time.

I returned to brother Edmonds and confronted him about the apparent discrepancy between his interpretation of the time line vs the interpretation provided by President Smith in Doctrines of Salvation.

Although it was not my intent to challenge his sincerity or integrity, I fear that is how he perceived the grilling he was getting. His response was not a pleasant one. It resulted in an unpleasant exchange between the two of us…  we parted ways on a rather sour note, never to see each other in this life again.

I must say however that I feel eternally indebted to Brother Edmonds for his passion about prophecy and for instilling in me a desire to know where I stand in time and the importance of having the spirit of watching and waiting.

He has since passed on, but I shall always be grateful that he was the catalyst for a profound and defining experience in my life.

Needless to say, the time line being presented by Brother Nelson and Brother Edmonds created  no small stir among many people back at that time.

There have since been several groups that have created their own variations of that time line, or were inspired to create different theories altogether, some of them have promoted their own time line videos.

At the time that all of this fuss was taking place, there were rumors about the general authority, under whose stewardship Mapleton Utah,  fell, who was Paul H. Dunn, meeting Brother Edmonds and also with Brother Nelson and warning them to tone things down and to not circulate inaccurate information.

Apparently church headquarters was getting lots of calls and letters from members of the church who were beginning to panic about the perilous time they felt we were entering into.

In an effort to sort things out in my own mind on these issues and to see if the church had an official position on the matter, I wrote a letter to Elder Dunn inquiring about the time line doctrine being taught by Brother Edmonds and the discrepancies I had found between his teachings and those written by President Smith. I included a diagram of my own interpretation of the timeline for his review.

I was curious to know what the official position of the Church was on the time line of the Church.

He was kind enough to respond to my inquiry and to provide a copy of a letter he had recently received from brother Nelson.

At the time, I found it disconcerting that Brother Dunn would commend me for coming to the “proper source” on such doctrinal matters while failing to respond to the doctrinal observations and questions I asked.

As a heretic that tends to be somewhat of a non-conformist, I have tried to find discrepancies in the general nine part time line taught by president Smith as I have searched the scriptures. After 21 years, I have yet to find a major discrepancy in it. In my opinion, his general time line interpretation fits perfectly with every time line statement in the scriptures. Below is my interpretation of the time line based on the scriptures and the writings of President Smith.

1-     1st Seal (one thousand years)

2-     2nd Seal (second thousand years)

3-     3rd Seal (third thousand years)

4-     4th Seal (fourth thousand years

MIDDLE OF TIME

5-     5th Seal (fifth thousand years)

6-     6th Seal (sixth thousand years)

7-     Beginning of the 7th Seal (Hour of Judgment/Redemption+ possibly about 41 years although the days will be cut short)

8-     Paradisaical Millennium (“There shall be time no longer” the earth leaves temporal time for the “space of 1,000 years”

9-     Remainder of the 7th Seal (“Little Season” possibly about 959 years)

timeline222

(click on the graphic to larger picture and additional info)

The above time line which is patterned after the writings of president Smith and many of the time line related prophecies, solves many of the discrepancies found in many of the articles written about the seven seals. Aside from the fact that the time line of the earth revealed in the scriptures cannot possibly fit into a 7,000 year period, another of the glaring discrepancies that most articles pertaining to the seven seals creates, has to do with the term “meridian”.

President Smith taught that the term meridian, as used in this context, means “middle’ and “high point” of time. As you can see from the proposed time line spoken of by President Smith, the coming of Christ did in fact take place in the middle of time;

If the above scenario is anywhere close to being correct, we are very close to the end of the sixth seal… and very close to the events spoken of by Christ that will take place in the last generation of probationary time (which take place before the seventh seal opens)

Of course Joseph Smith and many of the other general authorities from earlier times have been warning the Saints for a long time that we are getting near to the end of the six thousand year period spoken of in the scriptures, but perhaps one of the most disruptive scriptural interpretations derived from the Edmonds time line presentations is found in section 20 of the D&C;

The rise of the Church of Christ in these last days, being one thousand eight hundred and thirty years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh, it being regularly organized and established agreeable to the laws of our country, by the will and commandments of God, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called AprilD&C 20:

The reason this scripture is so disruptive is because in the past, the six thousand year period was spoken of in a vague context, taking for granted that our current calendar is not completely accurate and that we didn’t know the exact date of Christ’s birth, hence we don’t know when the six thousand year period comes to an end and we therefore don’t know exactly where we stand in time.

However a literal rendering of section 20 enables us to identify with pinpoint accuracy when the fall of Adam, the birth of Christ, the atonement of Christ and the end of the sixth seal takes place!

In essence, it tells us where we stand in time!

But can we take those passages in section 20 literally?

In another post I addressed the fascinating history behind section 20 and pointed out that it was actually written by Oliver Cowdery, not Joseph Smith. There is some disputation upon whether or not it should be consider an inspired writing or an actual revelation. In later years historical documents have surfaced that indicate that it was in fact a direct revelation from God.

Apparently President Kimball did take section 20 literally. On Easter Sunday April 6th 1980 he made the following statement;

“My brothers and sisters, today we not only celebrate the Sesquicentennial of the organization of the Church, but also the greatest event in human history since the birth of Christ on this day 1,980 years ago. Today is Easter Sunday” (May 1980 Ensign)

Harold B Lee also apparently agreed with the proposition contained in section 20 verse one;

“This is the annual conference of the Church. April 6, 1973, is a particularly significant date because it commemorates not only the anniversary of the organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in this dispensation, but also the anniversary of the birth of the Savior, our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ…” (ref)

When does the Sixth Seal End?

Recently I was asked by a friend, “Why didn’t anything happen on April 6th 2000?”

His question was based on the following assumptions;

1-  1- The Meridian (or Middle) of time is marked by the Birth of Christ

2-   2- The probationary period of mankind is six thousand years

3-   3- Section 20 reveals that our current calendar is correct to within a few months stating that on April 6th 1830, it had been 1830 years since the birth of Christ.

Based on the above assumptions, the end of the sixth seal would have been April 6th 2000. For this reason some people were anticipating that something might happen on that date.

Although I agree with President Smiths nine period chronology of the divine time line and with his definition of “Meridian” meaning middle and high point of time, I disagree with the assumption some people make when they identify the birth of Christ as the “coming of Christ” . I think this is an erroneous application of the term meridian.

Edmonds identified the birth of Christ with the scriptural phrase “coming of Christ”. he felt that the birth of Christ was a prophetic marker pointing to the middle or high point of time.

I am going to suggest that the middle of time and the high point of time was not the birth of Christ, rather it was the Atonement of Christ. (or possibly half way between the birth and atonement of Christ)

Notice the curious scripture found in the Pearl of Great Price;

And it came to pass that Enoch looked; and from Noah, he beheld all the families of the earth; and he cried unto the Lord, saying: When shall the day of the Lord come? When shall the blood of the Righteous be shed, that all they that mourn may be sanctified and have eternal life? And the Lord said: It shall be in the meridian of time, in the days of wickedness and vengeance. And behold, Enoch saw the day of the coming of the Son of Man, even in the flesh; and his soul rejoiced, saying: The Righteous is lifted up, and the Lamb is slain from the foundation of the world; and through faith I am in the bosom of the Father, and behold, Zion is with me.” Moses 7

It appears to me that the meridian of time is being linked with the day of the Lord which is clearly identified by the wickedness of those who shed the sanctifying blood of the righteous Savior. Clearly the emphasis pertaining to the events associated with his coming in the MERIDIAN of time is being placed on the crucifixion and the atonement of Christ, not his birth!

It is understandable that one would think that Christ has delayed the time of the end of probation and his return in glory in the beginning of the seventh seal if one assumes that the meridian of time is based on the birth of Christ. But I would suggest that is a false premise.

IF the following suppositions are true, then the end of the sixth seal would be closer to April 6th 2033 than to April 6th 2000;

·       probationary time does consist of six thousand years

·       section 20 is accurate in validating what the true calendar is

·       the term Meridian does have reference to the middle and high point of the divine     time line

·       the high point of time was in fact the atonement of Christ

Of course we know that the events of the last generation leading up to the end of probationary time, as described by Christ in Matthew 24 must take place sometime during the last biblical generation of the sixth seal.

That would possibly mean that the last 40 year generation of the probationary period before the judgment which takes place in the beginning of the seventh seal, would have possibly begun in 1993 and will possibly end in 2033, or some time sooner since we not that things will be cut short!

Obviously, the events mentioned in Matthew 24 don’t necessarily begin when the generation begins, they simply take place sometime during that generation. Additionally, they are all completed before the entire generation expires for we are told that those days will be shortened;

And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened.” JS-M 1: 20

The thought that the last generation might have begun back in 1993 is an awesome thought to ponder.

The thought that we are currently living in the tail end of the six thousand years is really not a far stretch, after all, as pointed out earlier, President Smith declared that we are nearly at the end of the first six thousand years period. Joseph Smith also declared that those living in his day were living close to the end of the six thousand years;

“The world has had a fair trial for six thousand years; the Lord will try the seventh thousand Himself..” TPSJ 5:252

If those living at the time of Joseph Smith were nearing the end of the six thousand year period, then we know that we are even closer to it!

The comments from Joseph smith would indicate that section 20 could be accurate.

Joseph Fielding Smith has since echoed those sentiments with even more specificity;

We have evidence beyond dispute that Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden about 6,000 years ago, or perhaps a short time less. It is possible for us, by using the Bible chronology and that given by the Lord in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants to figure this almost accurately.” Doctrines of Salvation

Ezra Taft Benson also felt we were close to the end of the six thousand year probationary period:

“For nearly six thousand years, God has held you in reserve to make your appearance in the final days before the Second Coming…” (ETB, Spoken to a gathering of youth in Southern California after he became President of the Church)

Ezra Taft Benson also made the following comments to a youth group:

“Youth of Zion, do you realize you are living in the days of the fulfillment of these signs and wonders? You are among those who will see many of these prophecies fulfilled. Just as certain as was the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem and the scattering of the Jews, so shall these words of the Savior be certain to your generation.

We know not the day nor the hour of His coming, but of this you may feel assured: You stand close to the great day of the Lord! In His words of modern revelation, we say to you, “Seek the face of the Lord, always” (D&C 101:38).

Could it really be possible that we are already living during the last generation of probationary time?

1993 was a year to remember for many people, for many reasons.

Just to jog your memory, the most popular show was “60 minutes”, and the academy award for the best picture that year was given to “Schindler’s List”. That year the Nobel Peace prize was awarded to Nelson Mandela .

The most popular fiction that year was “The Bridges of Madison County”  starring Clint Eastwood, written by  Robert James Waller.

The four most popular Nonfiction books that year were written by an eccentric conservative political talk radio host who would gain such popularity that he would affect politics in a huge way, a degenerate sex pervert who would have been jailed for his antics in the previous generation, but with the downward trend in morals has become worshipped and revered by men and women alike, a stand up comedian that would create an award winning sitcom based on nothing, and a disenfranchised Latter day Saint who claimed to have died and seen the after life, creating her own quasi-new age religion mingled with bits and pieces of Mormon Doctrine;
1.”See I Told You” … Rush Limbaugh
2.”Private Parts” … Howard Stern
3.”Seinlanguage” … Jerry Seinfeld
4.”Embraced by the Light” … Betty J. Eddie with Curtis Taylor

Such were the latter day movers and shakers shaping the thoughts of our present generation in 1993. Those were the books being embraced by a depraved nation with darkened minds.

If indeed 1993 was the beginning of the last 40 year generation of probationary time, it is not unreasonable to suspect that a very significant event might have taken place that year as a prophetic marker indicating where we stand in time.

I have listed below, some of the major events that took place that year. There is one of them in particular that I find to be very significant.

How about you?

Do you find anything in the  following list to be a significant prophetic event? Or are you aware of another event that took place in 1993 that is not on the list that might have been significant?

  • The Great Blizzard of 1993 strikes the eastern U.S., bringing record snowfall and other severe weather all the way from Cuba to Québec.
  • The European Union was formally established when the Maastricht Treaty came into force on 1 November 1993
  • The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is signed into law by US President Bill Clinton.
  • The World Wide Web is born at CERN.
  • John Paxson’s 3-point shot in Game 6 of the NBA Finals helps the Chicago Bulls, and their third consecutive championship. secure a 99-98 win over the Phoenix Suns.
  • U.S. President Bill Clinton announces his ‘Don’t ask, don’t tell‘ policy regarding gays in the American military.
  • The Mississippi and Missouri Rivers flood large portions of the American Midwest.
  • LDS Apostles offered their sacrifices and oblations in the Kirtland Temple for the first time in over 140 years
  • Waco seige in Texas.
  • First World Trade Center bombing. Terrorists detonate bomb in underground car park.
  • A seven year peace treaty signed between Israel and PLO. .
  • The HAARP Program ( which stands for “High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program” was created. The HAARP Program is jointly managed by the US Air Force and the US Navy. Though the military denies the allegations, scientific evidence shows that HAARP can cause earthquakes (and other devastations). Russia and the U.S. have already signed treaties agreeing not to use the weather as weaponry against each other.

Assuming that 1993 was the beginning of the last forty year generation of probationary time, those who are watching have great cause to be very anticipatory.

We are now over 1/3 the way through the last generation in the sixth seal during which the preparatory event for the Lords Second coming in glory will take place before the final judgments in the beginning of the seventh seal will take place.

While many believing Mormons, Protestants and Catholics are  watching for the judgments to take place in the opening of the seventh seal and the second coming of the Lord in glory, those who understand the three watch doctrine realize that the Marvelous Work and a Wonder must first take place BEFORE the seventh seal can begin.

Our Father Adam and the Seer and the Spokesman and the rest of the first laborers of the last kingdom must first make their appearance to seal up the righteous and the wicked.

During this time the Savior will return to the vineyard in secret. All of this must happen BEFORE the judgments of the seventh seal and the second coming in glory can take place.

The return of the servants and the testimony of the Servants to the world will be followed by the testimony of earthquakes and the voice of thunderings and the voice of lightnings and the voice of tempests and voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds. (See section 88)

As we watch in anticipation for the events to take place, the Lord has given many signs of the times for us to be watching for. Additionally there are other keys to help us understand what is to take place in the near future.

Among them, the dates that revelations took place in the D&C can possibly be very helpful.

Understanding the feasts of Israel and the meaning and sequence behind them and how they related to prophecy can be very helpful.

Perhaps another key was given in section 59

On August 7th 1831 the Lord said;

Thou shalt offer a sacrifice unto the Lord thy God in righteousness, even that of a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;

Nevertheless thy vow shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times; But remember that on this, the Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.

And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.

Although that revelation was given on a Sunday, verifying that the Lords Sabbath day is indeed on Sunday during this period time, it is interesting to note that it was also given on a NEW MOON!

Hence, the statements from Isaiah and other prophets about the significance of the New Moon are still very applicable. It may be helpful to keep your eyes on the New Moon dates coming up.

This site is very helpful for researching past New Moon dates as well as future ones- Phases of the Moon Calendar

We live in amazing times.

Are you waiting and watching?

Will you be one of the ones that they find, just as the Lord found Philip?

Perhaps you will be one of the first to find them.

Perhaps you, like Andrew, will have the privilege of seeking out your beloved brother or sister and declaring “I have found them! The Servants have returned!”

Perhaps just as Philip found Nathanial, you will find your fellow believers and declare;

I have found those who have been identified in the scriptures as the first laborers of the last kingdom, they have returned just as the Lord God of Israel has promised!”

May 25, 2009
Categories: Articles by OWIW, Atonement, LDS, Other Topics, Prophecy, Uncategorized . Tags: , , , , , , , , , , . Author: onewhoiswatching Edit this entry

39 Comments

  1. Comment by Troy on May 26, 2009 1:16 pm

    It is ironic that Paul Dunn said that your “Brother Nelson” was was saying things that “Just (were not) true”.=)

    Pot calling the kettle black?

    I enjoyed your post.

  2. Comment by Troy on May 26, 2009 1:26 pm

    Sure would like to me able to say “I have found them!”… would be amazing.

  3. Comment by truthseeker on May 26, 2009 4:22 pm

    Great post!
    I hope the next one is soon. I will have to watch the playoffs for now.

  4. Comment by pslovealways on May 27, 2009 12:04 am

    Beautifully written onewhoiswatching. Beautifully written…

    Now, you are finally writing.

    Blessings ahead of you…

    Isn’t it one of the most glorious times to be living?

    My favorite part of your post?

    ““Thou shalt offer a sacrifice unto the Lord thy God in righteousness, even that of a broken heart and a contrite spirit.
    And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;
    Nevertheless thy vow shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times; But remember that on this, the Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.
    And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.“

    and there are bigger reasons why than you realize…

    It is a part of the last sacrifice that will close the sixth seal.

    ;)
    lovealways
    little liahona

  5. Comment by truthseeker on May 27, 2009 12:34 pm

    OWIW
    You have been writing very well for a long time:) Because newagers think they are God they can unintentionally be a little degrading… HA

  6. Comment by Troy on May 27, 2009 1:19 pm

    Truthseeker,

    could you please consider not bringing divisiveness to this site. Open criticism seems fine but comments that do no more then insult should be withheld. There is enough anger and unkindness in the world, lets not bring it here too.

    Thanks.

    Troy

  7. Comment by onewhoiswatching on May 27, 2009 1:59 pm

    I got an email from someone asking which future New Moon in August I was alluding to in the article. I did not mean to imply that I was thinking about a specific date nor that it would necessarily be in August.

    The purpose of providing the link to the New Moon Calendar is just for those wanting to do historical research on which days fell on a New Moon in the past as well as viewing future days that will fall on a New Moon.

    I have reworded that portion of the article… Sorry for being a little bit ambiguous on that issue.

  8. Comment by pslovealways on May 27, 2009 7:25 pm

    Thank you sincerely Troy. (Gentle smile) I appreciate a beautiful heart able to speak truth. It such a good thing to see in this world currently.

    :)

    love always

    P.S. Do not mistake a heart full of intelligence and confidence for arrogance. As these are the humble traits required to stand up to a world in adversity. lol…

  9. Comment by pslovealways on May 27, 2009 7:39 pm

    Those who are to be prepared for a greater work, are to be further lifted in confidence when their ability rises in earnest progression. Those that cast stones are a sign that we are headed in the right direction. For the adversity comes first, before any full dawn.

    Keep going onewhoiswatching. Your writing is progressing very well!
    :)

    sweet dreams all

  10. Comment by truthseeker on May 28, 2009 6:35 am

    Troy and psla
    To make statements like “Your writing is progressing well” and “Now, you are finally writing.” implies that you are in a position of authority on a subject. YOUR NOT. PSLA Let me help you on an appropraite non condisending way to compliment somoene that deserves a little respect for the work they have done;
    Dear OWIW I very much enjoyed your post. I especialy liked the stories and the love and that you didn’t sneak any hard doctorine that disagrees with my current world vew this time.
    Love pslovealways

  11. Comment by onewhoiswatching on May 28, 2009 8:07 am

    Dear Troy, psla (Birdie) and Truthseeker

    I am going to be going on an unusual journey and I am hoping the three of you will join me.

    I will be giving the details of the journey at http://www.threewatches.blogspot.com.

    They will not be posted for several days so be patient. I am just giving you a heads up so that you can plan your schedules accordingly. I know you probably have lots of things planned for this summer, and I realize this trip may not work into your busy schedules.

    I am not in a position to be very flexible about the date we leave and the date we return, I will understand if any or all of you are unable or unwilling to join me.

    Please don’t reject this invitation until you hear the details.

    I realize the three of you are probably not very excited about going on a trip with each other, and I don’t blame you, however, please give me the opportunity of providing the details BEFORE you reject my offer.

    Conversely, please don’t accept my offer until you hear the details.

    I wish I could give you more details right now but I can’t.

    Please Keep Watching

  12. Comment by Troy on May 28, 2009 9:08 am

    I am certainly interested OWIW. I look forward to the details.

  13. Comment by pslovealways on May 28, 2009 10:25 am

    Truthseeker,

    Is life for the purpose of progression? And if it is, then how is it possible that during a life of progression a writing could not progress to it’s fullest extent? How is it that one could stop growing while on earth?

    Because I do not praise according to your understanding, does not make the praise condescending. It is your own mind that chooses to see it such a way. Which signals a need for further progression within you…

    Beyond you truthseeker which this thread is not about, one who is watching is beginning to write in a style that could potentially influence millions.

    Now if you would be kind enough to gently remove your hands from the way of adversity, he could continue on.

    Thank you

    pslovealways…

    Love You!!!

  14. Comment by pslovealways on May 28, 2009 12:22 pm

    I too look greatly forward to the details. :)

    It should be intriguing. I do hope that you will include within your description, the full purpose and intent.

    love always

  15. Comment by pslovealways on May 28, 2009 3:06 pm

    I was going to comment on your post regarding a portion of it and the overlap. Which is true… And I could fully explain…

    However, it really doesn’t matter. And I am truly not here to educate. Rather I have a job to perform on earth away from everyones eyes. It is interesting how the most intelligent beings are treated…

    I won’t be joining you. Responsibilities dictate every day life. That, and with the possibility of such a cruel person to be in my midst… Well, any woman holds the right to refrain from such exposure.

    Truthseeker, you are solely responsible for closing down all gates of communication till the end. Your inability to act accordingly towards the law of love, has created such.
    From this time until the eighth dispensation, will you no longer judge any another. Lest ye be cursed without a voice to speak.

    This is my prayer Father. In the name of Jesus Christ.

    love always

  16. Comment by truthseeker on May 29, 2009 6:12 am

    Spread your Voodoo somewhere else love… You show love only when it is conveinent. You threaten with a power you do not hold. You have no control over me or your own mind. Your prayer contradicts the teachings of our Lord and Saviour and so do my actions. I will work on that…
    I wish you the best and may you recieve the gift of selfawareness one day soon.

    “It is interesting how the most intelligent beings are treated…”

    PS
    It is also interesting how the best looking of us are treated as well… LOL barf

  17. Comment by truthseeker on May 29, 2009 6:19 am

    OWIW,
    I’m in for the trip. Troy and I can do a ropes course or something. I’m ready for the details. I hope you can help my pettiness and quick trigger.

  18. Comment by onewhoiswatching on May 29, 2009 9:28 am

    It sounds like two out of the three of you are at least willing to listen to the details of my offer.

    I appreciate your willingness to hear me out. Even if you ultimately decide not to join me after hearing the details, it shows great humility and an open and seeking heart to at least hear the details before rejecting the offer.

    I look forward to giving you the details. Please be patient, it will be at least several days before I am able to give the details.

    Keep Watching

  19. Comment by Malachi on May 29, 2009 7:08 pm

    Hi there Watcher I enjoyed your post very much and agree with the 8,000 year and the middle of time being the crucifiction etc.

    I do not disagree with anything you’ve presented, I would only attempt to add to your presentation and give my explanation of the remaining time we have before 2033.

    I personnally believe that we are given a more specific chronology of how the 3rd watch marvelous work will come down. I wish I could quote someone on the internet or some authority general or not but I can’t find anyone that can give me a viable explanation of the part of Revelation that I love to deal with. Please allow me to suggest some things that I see in the Book of Revelation and that I think are corroborated by the D&C.

    I do not believe that the 6th thousand years and the 7th thousand years overlap like
    Bro Edmonds, I believe they are set in stone and the handoff is in 2033. But I do believe that there is an overlapping or a bridging of the 2033 date by the hour of judgment. There is that weird part of the hour of judgment that is called the 1/2 hour of silence that no one seems to have an explantion for. I believe that the opening of the 7th seal is a seperate and distinct term from the 7th thousand year period. I believe that the 7th seal is opened by the Lamb and the 1/2 hour of silence begins in 2012 a little over 20 years before the 7th thousand years begins.

    Allow me to explain that a little.

    Lets go back to Revelation 5. I believe that chapter 5 occurs at the beginning of the marvelous work. There’s a little drama that’s being played out. Where no one can be found who can open this very special book, then out of the blue there’s a Lamb that can open the book and he takes the book from Him who sits on the throne and all of heaven praises and worships the Lamb. The lamb then begins to open the 7 seals which bind the book shut. I believe that when he opens a seal it represents a specific event of the 3rd watch. Many Protestent sites on the web give a somewhat similar explanation of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, but have no explanation of the other seals that the lamb opens.

    1st seal = the servant of God on a white horse going forth with power
    2nd seal = the fall of Babylon & peace being taken from the earth
    3rd seal = the setting up of the Kingdom of the Beast
    4th seal = the reign of Satan himself on the earth
    5th seal = a statement of reassurance to the righteous meridian saints

    6th seal is the special one, it’s the only one seemingly that makes sense to everyone. We all know that there will be a great earthquake and that the sun, moon and stars will go crazy and that everyone will hide from Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb. It’s during the opening of this seal that the 144,000 are sealed up. This is a pivital event that is essential to the events of the opening of the 7th seal and the 1/2 hour of silence.

    7th seal = the 1/2 hour of silence which begins during the 6th thousand year period. It’s during the 1/2 hour of silence that the temple in Jackson Co is built and the House of Israel is gathered to it. This is the work of the Father where all Israel will be saved, except for the Jews of course which have a special suffering that they are required to experience.

    Now allow me to refer to two scriptures in the D&C that I believe support these ideas.

    D&C 77 is the question answer section on the Book of Revelation. Verse 12 is the specific verse concering the 7th thousand year and it even skirts the issue of the 1/2 hour of silence. 77:12 asks the question “What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?” The answer is given that “the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years” The Lord totally ignores the 1/2 hour of silence because I believe it begins in the 6th thousand year. The Lord isn’t overlapping the 6th thousand year and the 7th thousand year he is overlapping the opening of the 7th seal by the Lamb with the 6th thousandth year.

    D&C 112 speaks of the overlapping of the dispsations which I believe is talking about this same relationship. Here we learn that the dispensation of the fulness of times begins during the dispensation of the last days.

    30 For unto you, the Twelve, and those, the First Presidency, who are appointed with you to be your counselors and your leaders, is the power of this priesthood given, for the last days and for the last time, in the which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

    The dispensation of the last days seems to be the equivalent of the 6th thousand years
    of the times of the gentiles because the apostles spoke about them being in the dispensation of the last days.

    The dispensation of the fulness of times is the restoration of all the dispensations which the opening of the 7 seals also seems to represent, at least to me.

    I hope my thoughts are as clear as mud.

    I found myself wondering what the majority of the comments had to do with the watchers fine blog. Maybe someone could start another blog where bickering is loved and appreciated. Other than a little praise I didn’t see anything specific to the ideas presented in the blog. As for my comments I desire no praise, but an analysis and critique on the ideas would be greatly appreciated.

  20. Comment by NEPT on May 29, 2009 9:03 pm

    Hey OWIW! You coming to NC??!! I could use a pow-wow.

  21. Comment by onewhoiswatching on May 29, 2009 11:04 pm

    Malachi my friend

    Thank you for your comments and for sharing the additional specifics on your interpretation pertaining to the specifics pertaining to the parts of the timeline I pretty much left blank.

    Since I am out of town celebrating Mrs Watchers and my 31sr year of heretical bliss in a condo in the mountains with sporadic opportunity to find wireless access to the internet, I have not studied your response in depth… I know we have discussed this before but I look forward to studying it in greater detail when I can.

    Watcher

  22. Comment by LDS Anarchist on May 31, 2009 4:05 pm

    Watcher, thanks for bringing this topic up. I have always subscribed to Joseph Fielding Smith’s time line views and have often considered the meridian = atonement idea (2033 end), but never actually took the time to research the scriptures to come to any adequate conclusion. This post has caused me to finally do a study and I thank you for that.

    My current understanding is that the “meridian of time” does not refer to the birth of Christ nor to the Atonement of Christ, but to the entire life of Christ, meaning from His birth to His death, or the full 33 years. These 33 years are the halfway point of the 8000 years of Earth’s existence. So, He was born towards the end of the 4th thousand years and He died near the beginning of the 5th thousand years. Which means that the middle point of time would be exactly 16.5 years from his birth, or October 6 of the year 16. Which means that the 5th thousand years ended on October 6, 1016 and that the 6th thousand years will end on October 6, 2016. At which point the 7th seal will open.

    This interpretation seems consistent with both the scriptures and my understanding of the signs of the times that are taking place and “where we are” time-wise according to those signs. I’ve discussed this with what4anarchy and he also seems to think that October 6, 2016 seems about right for the end date of the 6th seal.

    Here are all the scriptures that mention the meridian of time:

    26 Not only those who believed after he came in the meridian of time, in the flesh, but all those from the beginning, even as many as were before he came, who believed in the words of the holy prophets, who spake as they were inspired by the gift of the Holy Ghost, who truly testified of him in all things, should have eternal life, (D&C 20: 26)3 The same which came in the meridian of time unto mine own, and mine own received me not; (D&C 39: 3)

    57 For they would not hearken unto his voice, nor believe on his Only Begotten Son, even him whom he declared should come in the meridian of time, who was prepared from before the foundation of the world. (Moses 5: 57)

    57 Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.
    • • •
    62 And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time. (Moses 6: 57, 62)

    46 And the Lord said: It shall be in the meridian of time, in the days of wickedness and vengeance. (Moses 7: 46)

  23. Comment by Malachi on June 1, 2009 4:51 pm

    That’s interesting Anachrist now we even have another date to watch. Like how did you come to that realization? I see 6 instances of the use of the phrase “meridian of time” I read your explanation of halving the 33 yrs and that’s interesting but it’s a bit of a jump for me at the moment. Is there anyother reason to grab onto this idea?

  24. Comment by onewhoiswatching on June 1, 2009 4:53 pm

    LDSAnarchy

    Yes, as I mentioned in my article, in addition to the possibility of the atonement date being the middle point of time, there is a possibility that the middle of time is marked by identifying the middle date between the birth and atonement;

    “I am going to suggest that the middle of time and the high point of time was not the birth of Christ, rather it was the Atonement of Christ. (or possibly half way between the birth and atonement of Christ)”

    I certainly would prefer it to be the mid point between the birth and death of Christ, that way, and it would seem to make more sense in that it doesn’t seem like we need until 2033 for all of the events to happen. (of course we don’t need that much time anyway as we have been told the time will be cut short)

    The scenario you have accepted also makes more sense to me from the stand point that Arch Bishop Ussher would not have been quite so far off in his projected date for the fall of Adam!

    Nevertheless, I guess the two reasons why I still lean toward the atonement date, and not the mid point date between the birth and atonement are as follows;

    1- HIGH POINT; If the contextual term for meridian only means “middle” then the mid point between the birth and meridian would probably make the most sense to me, however, President Smith’s claim that it also means “high point” rings true to me. And, I suspect it means something different to me as well. He seems to be deriving his thoughts from one of websters definitions of meridian which is as follows;

    “The highest point; as the meridian of life; the meridian of power or of glory.”

    I really think the term “meridian of time” is not only the middle point of time but also the “High Point” of Christ’s power and glory.

    It seems to me that the high point of Christs power and glory would have been when he broke the bands of death and atoned for our sins, etc.

    When he prayed the intercessory prayer, just before the crucifixion he prayed these words;

    “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee..”

    It seems to me that the breaking of the bands of death and the atonement that Christ accomplished during his ministry at the age of 33 is more likely to be considered the high point that anything Christ may have been doing at the age of 16 or 17, long before his formal ministry began.

    2- PROPHETIC MARKER: As I mentioned in the article, it seems to me that the beginning of the last 40 years of probationary time might well be marked for those who are watching with a prophetic marker. I can see several significant events that took place in 1993… and one in particular, that could be of prophetic magnitude. However, I have briefly reviewed the time period that would have been the beginning of the last 40 year period based on the mid point being between the birth date and death date and I don’t see a “stand-out” prophetic event that seems like a prophetic marker.

    Admittedly I have looked that hard. Perhaps I have not looked hard enough, or perhaps there just isn’t a prophetic marker to mark the beginning of the last generation.

    Although there are several reasons why I like the date that you have chosen as the high point of time, I guess I am still 51 % leaning toward the atonement as the high point meridian and 49% leaning toward the date you are postulating.

    To me it is somewhat of a moot point since we both agree that the time for the servants to make there appearance is very soon and we know things will progress pretty quickly from that point on.

    It appears that the Lord will shorten the days contained within this generation. Regardless of whether he only shortens them by a shorter period or a longer period really doesn’t matter that much. What matters is that we recognize the servants when they get here and accept the fulness of the Gospel

    Thank you for sharing your beliefs and predictions. We don’t need to wait long to see what the exact details of the time line are!

  25. Comment by onewhoiswatching on June 1, 2009 5:36 pm

    Dear Brother Malachi

    Thank you so much for sharing your interpretation of the more detailed break down of the timeline of events pertaining to the end of the sixth thousand year period and the beginning of the seventh thousand year period.

    Just to reiterate and clarify, for those who are new to this topic, I am suggesting that the “hour of judgment” which is possibly also referred to as the “hour of redemption” is composed of the “half hour of silence” followed by the remainder of the hour during which the judgments and plagues listed in the Book of Revelation.

    My interpretation is that this hour, which is broken into two parts, is the beginning of the seventh seal.

    If I understand your interpretation, you would agree that the Hour of Judgment is divided into the two parts as mentioned above, however you believe that the first half hour represents the tail end of the sixth seal and the second half hour represents the beginning of the seventh seal.

    Let me begin by saying that if we were voting on which of the two interpretations we want to be correct, I would certainly vote for yours! This is because, in my opinion, if your interpretation is correct, it would require a 3 ½ year period of warning by the servants to begin within the next 30 to 90 days in order for that period of time to be completed prior to 2012!

    The very thought that the servants could be returning that soon is exhilarating and exciting to me… and I am hopeful that they will return that soon even though my interpretation of the placement of the hour of judgment does not require such an early return of the Servants.

    Interestingly, my hopefulness that the return of the servants is soon, is based on other criteria which I have already covered in previous posts.

    Revelation 8:1 Says; “And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.”

    According to the above verse the half hour of judgment does not begin until the seventh seal is opened. It then goes on to clarify that the judgments of God follow after the half hour of judgment.

    How do you reconcile that scripture with you belief that the half hour of silence is in the sixth seal?

  26. Comment by Malachi on June 2, 2009 5:21 am

    I believe there is a difference in the act of the Lamb opening the 7th seal on the book and the 7th thousand year period that begins in 2033 and the Lord is using that similarity in terminology to hid the overlapping of the opeing of the 7th seal by the Lamb into the 6th thousand year period by 20 years.

    I’ll reiterate: I believe that the opening of the 7th seal by the Lamb is not the beginning of the 7th thousand year period but an event of the 6th thousand year period. The opening of the 7 seals by the lamb are events of the 3rd watch / marvelous work. The easiest event to see is the opening of the 6th seal with the great earthquake and the sun, moon and stars going crazy. But the 1/2 hour of silence is also an event. The event begins the dispenation of the fulness of times and the gathering together all things into one. The 1/2 hour of silence is the building up of Zion and gathering the House of Israel.

    I gain strength for this interpretation because of two scriptures.
    In D&C 77:12 which is the Lords explanation of Revelation 8 the Lord points out that at the beginning of the 7th thousand years will be the sounding of the 7 trumps. He says nothing about the 1/2 hour of silence because it is an event he has placed during the end of the 6th thousand thousand year period.

    I believe the 6th thousand years period of time is the dispensation of the last days and the 7th thousand years period of time is the dispensation of the fulness of times which are overlapped using the 1/2 hour of silence. We know this overlapping occurs because of 112:30. The overlapping of the dispensation of the fulness of times is the opening of the 7th seal, which is the 1/2 hour of silence at the end of the 6th thousand year period.

    This of course is my personal interpretation which can only be verified by the passing of a few years or the return of the servants.

  27. Comment by onewhoiswatching on June 2, 2009 8:21 am

    Malachi

    Thank you for clarifying your thinking on that issue. I realize you have explained this to me multiple times in the past but I thought it would be helpful for others to understand what may appear as an “apparent discrepancy” to someone that doesn’t understand your thinking on that issue..

    Watcher

  28. Comment by Younger Dude on June 3, 2009 12:55 am

    I love reading about Nathanael’s first encounter with Jesus. It didn’t take much convincing for him to believe. It makes me laugh when Jesus says “Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under a fig tree, believest thou? Thou shalt see greater things than these.”

    OWIW,
    What is the prophetic event in 1993 that you find very significant? Is it the LDS apostles offering their sacrifices and oblations in the Kirtland Temple?

  29. Comment by onewhoiswatching on June 3, 2009 4:42 am

    Younger Dude-

    Yes!

    Watcher

  30. Comment by Bounce Back on June 3, 2009 5:50 am

    Watcher,
    In the beginning of this post you said;

    ” I suppose one of the most stirring passages of scripture that characterizes the spirit of watching is found in the 1st Chapter of the Gospel of John.

    He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

    And he brought him to Jesus”

    I imagine the joy of getting to share the most important information, ever, with anyone. As I read the different posts by you, Watcher, and the responses by others, I feel the love and desire to understand and share the most important thing to all of us…..that of finding Jesus Christ through His Word confirmed by His Spirit.

    Brother Malachi,

    You said

    “I believe there is a difference in the act of the Lamb opening the 7th seal on the book and the 7th thousand year period that begins in 2033″

    When I read your response I remembered in D&C 77:10 that the Lord does not differentiate the use of opening a seal and that same thousand year period.

    Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished?
    A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.

    From these verses I think it establishes that a thousand year period and the opening of a seal are synonymous.

    I love how we have been able to study with you and Mrs. Malachi over the years and the incredibly sweet experiences in the Word we have enjoyed with you.

  31. Comment by onewhoiswatching on June 3, 2009 7:08 am

    LDSAnarchy

    There is actually a third reason why I believe the Meridian of Time may have reference to the time of the Atonement when Christ was given the height of his glory, rather than when he was 16 years old.

    Again, I don’t think this is a terribly huge issue at this point in time since the important thing sor us to be watching and waiting for the return of the servants and to identify the season that they will return, which we seem to be agreed upon, but the reason I want to share this third conjecture is that it demonstrates another possible time line related reason why Joseph Smith might have already returned.

    This of course is total speculation and is really far out there… but hey, speculating on various time lines is what those who are watching do… right?

    Here is a potential scenario from the scriptures;

    Section 77:12 Tells us that the coming of Christ in his glory takes place in the 7th seal after he completes the salvation of man.

    Section 88 gives additional details about this. Among other things, verse 95 reveals that at the end of the half hour of silence, the curtain of heaven is unfolded and the face of the Lord is revealed to the whole world. this is very possibly a description are target date for the season of the second coming in glory.

    If in fact the time of the atonement is the middle-high point of time, then April of 2033 is the approximate time of the ending of the sixth seal (and the end of probation).

    By adding nearly 22 years (half an hour of silence according to Gods reckoning of time) then the year 2055 brings us to the end of the half hour of silence in the seventh seal when the season of the second coming in glory begins. (I am not trying to identify a day and hour)

    Now then, with those potential time line target dates in mind, lets review the revelation Joseph Smith received when he asked about when the coming of Christ in glory would be;

    “I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.” D&C 130: 15

    One way to interpret the above revelation is that Joseph Smith needs to be on this earth in the flesh during temporal time for approximately 85 years before the second coming in glory will take place.

    Joseph was born in Dec of 1805 and died in June of 1844. He died at the age of 38. That means that he needs to return and live approximately another 47 years in temporal time before the second coming in glory can take place.

    If we back up 47 years from 2055 it brings us to the year 2008 (which technically ended April 5th 2009) which would indicate that Joseph may have returned already to deliver the proclamation to the governors of all the nations of the world (see section 124) and now he is about to make his appearance to the inhabitants of the world who are being governed.

    I realize this is pretty far fetched… and I am terrible with numbers, having failed just about every math class I have taken, hence, my figures may be off by a decade or two.

  32. Comment by TruthSeekerToo on June 3, 2009 3:22 pm

    Does anyone else think that the second coming of Christ could be both a literal/global event and a personal/spiritual event?

    All the numbers continue to amaze me.

    Do we have any details on the Kirtland Temple event in 1993?

    October 6, 2016. Interesting.
    Now, we have 3.5 years from April 2009 to December 2012. Then, a little more than 3.5 years to October 2016. It doesn’t fit exactly, but very close.

  33. Comment by Malachi on June 4, 2009 5:11 am

    Hi there Bounce back

    Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished?
    A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or (equal or not equal that is the question) the opening of the sixth seal.

    I appreciate you pointing that out. My first reaction to that scripture was that the “or” meant equal and in an sense they are equal but then not the same. They are the same in that the opening of the 6th seal does in fact occur within the 6th thousand year period. Therefore the events of Revelation 7 occur in the opeing of the 6th seal or the 6th thousand year period of time. They are not the same in that the opening of the 6th seal is one isolated event and the 6th thousand year period is a long time.

  34. Comment by pslovealways on June 4, 2009 2:23 pm

    Dear people who read this blog and especially one who is watching,

    I would like to deeply apologize for my most recent release of fear and frustration. In person you would not recognize such a fearful person. It is that the past two years I have been dealing with the ex wife of my husband who is a foreign national within our country, here on a green card because of my husbands giving. She has caused a great deal of grief within our life that I have never had to deal with before. In which I haven’t been sure how to handle. And the only way that I have been able to cope is to write out my frustration towards God, as in my life I have never done something so drastic as to deserve such treatment by any other. I have had a hard time understanding why God would allow such a thing to happen to an undeserving person.

    However, I believe the dawn is finally breaking. Hard evidence has been found of her actions. Soon she will be in custody and every thing we have gone through will be over…

    Today is a day to cry thankful tears.

    Again, I am so sorry. I hope you understand… It has been very difficult to hold it together because of her. I almost completely fell apart as you witnessed.

    please be well

    love always,
    pslovealways

  35. Comment by onewhoiswatching on June 5, 2009 3:35 am

    pslovealways

    It sounds like you are going through the refiners fire. I can’t imagine how difficult of a situation you must be going through.

    I think we all fluctuate between love and fear during this mortal state. You are not alone.

    May the Lord bless and sustain you in this difficult time

    Watcher

  36. […] We have found the Messias! […]

  37. Comment by OWIW on July 4, 2009 7:29 am

    Anarchist

    You said

    “My current understanding is that the “meridian of time” does not refer to the birth of Christ nor to the Atonement of Christ, but to the entire life of Christ, meaning from His birth to His death, or the full 33 years. These 33 years are the halfway point of the 8000 years of Earth’s existence. So, He was born towards the end of the 4th thousand years and He died near the beginning of the 5th thousand years. Which means that the middle point of time would be exactly 16.5 years from his birth, or October 6 of the year 16. Which means that the 5th thousand years ended on October 6, 1016 and that the 6th thousand years will end on October 6, 2016. At which point the 7th seal will open.

    This interpretation seems consistent with both the scriptures and my understanding of the signs of the times that are taking place and “where we are” time-wise according to those signs. I’ve discussed this with what4anarchy and he also seems to think that October 6, 2016 seems about right for the end date of the 6th seal.”

    in light of those remarks and particularly the date of 2016 you may find the following video interesting if you have not already seen it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq_QWWZaynw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mt.net%2F~watcher%2F&feature=player_embedded

    Watcher

10 Responses to Seven Seals and a Paradisaical Millennium

  1. Jim says:

    You said:

    The fact that the modern church falsely claims to actually have the fulness of the priesthood and the fullness of the gospel does not take away from the fact that they are dispensing the KNOWLEDGE of what the fullness of the gospel is by publishing the sacred scriptures to the world.

    Watcher, have you ever read Andrew Ehat’s Thesis regarding the fullness of the priesthood being given by Joseph Smith to the original Twelve in Nauvoo, at least the earthly ordinances?

    Jim

  2. Hi Jim

    I think I read it a long time ago but would love to review it again if you have a link.

    Ehat did a great work co-authoring the words of JS. In it he provides three separate and distinct journal entries regarding the Nauvoo discourse that Joseph gave regarding the three divisions of priesthood.

    I have provided an abundance of material in other posts and will be doing so again in the current series on succession to demonstrate that virtually anything that Joseph did after 1842 was NOT in harmony with the foundation he had been instrumental in laying during the Kirtland years.

    it was not in harmony with the fulness of the gospel and with what had begun to take place at the special conference at the Morley Farm in 1831 ( and was ultimately rejected by an apostate people.)

    Virtually all of the stuff Joseph did pertaining to the council of 50 and the ordaining of kings and priests and the spiritual wife doctrine and masonry, etc. etc. etc. during and after 1842 when the heavens began closing on him was contrary to the original gospel “endowment” and original “fulness of the priesthood” and spiritual baptism that had been previously restored and rejected over a decade before..

    When you reference the “original twelve”, who are you referring to?

    There were the original “twelve disciples” of the restoration movement referring to the three witnesses, eight witnesses and Joseph Smith.

    Additionally, there were the “apostles” that God spoke to in section 84 long before Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer chose and ordained the twelve apostles in 1835. If my memory serves me correctly, seven “apostles” were present on the first day when the first half of section 84 was given and when the second half of the revelation was given the following day, there was 11 of 12 apostles present. Those apostles were called in a similar way that Paul was called, by the voice of God out of heaven.

    Several years later, the next quorum of 12 were called by the witnesses to the Book of Mormon.

    When those 12 were ordained, they were told that their callings to the apostleship would not be complete until Christ appeared to them personally and ordained them himself.

    Thank you for visiting Jim… please send my a link if you have one.

  3. Jim says:

    Watcher,

    Thank you for your quick response. I have read very thoroughly your blog regarding the High Priest Apostles that were called by God through Joseph Smith in the Issac Morley farm and I agree with you that something wonderful occurred there, that these men had been “called” but not yet “chosen” as Enoch and others before them. They failed to measure up, as we in modern times are “walking in darkness at noonday”. I thank you for waking me up to these powerful teachings. Also, your discovery of the 3 watches greatly intrigued me, as I have pondered the statements of Jesus in the New Testament regarding “new wine” in the gospels and how that is going to affect the restoration Church very soon.

    What I believe happened (after the Abrahamic Dispensation was begun with the visit of Moses and Elias (Section 110) a lesser order) is the “fullness of priesthood” was sequestered and only few would receive the “earthly ordinances” which would be followed by the heavenly ordination at some point. The order that these events occur is not important as we notice in 3rd Nephi 17(children) who are baptized by fire before there water baptism.

    President George F. Richards in his letter to the 1st Presidency and the Twelve in about 1949 was also concerned about the ordinances being sequestered and being given to prominent members of the Church, leaving ordinary members without these blessings. Have you read that letter? As you mentioned Baptism of Fire could precede the actual water baptism as noted in 3 Nephi 17(children). So the order is not important.

    I have an electronic version of Andrews Thesis, but not a link to it.

    I was referring to the “original” twelve called in February 1835 selected by Oliver and David.

    Jim

  4. Great observations Jim

    … thank you for sharing them

    I think I have read the George F Richards letter but again, it has been a long time. It will be interesting to see if I view it differently now since I am in a different place in my learning curve than I was back then.

    I will be emailing you to see if you would be so kind as to send me both docs..

    Thanks

    Watcher

  5. wewingtonheet says:

    Watcher,

    Thank you for this post. I really appreciate all the links you provide to the different articles in your research. It makes me chuckle at how so many different sources of information and truth is verboten reading to many LDS members today. A year ago, I wouldn’t have believed I would feel this way and have read so many wonderful discourses from the sources that they come from.

    I would appreciate if you might pass on any docs you recieve from JIm. I am afraid I am become the seeker and cannot pass anything on as yet and rely on those who have gone before.

    In many ways, the wealth of knowledge and information is almost overwhelming in its magnitude and I wish I could have come across this information when I was younger. Better late then never!

    Thank you Jim for your comments as well.

    This is a process and it takes time! I wish I could just plug in and download directly to my brain. I need to reread so many different things and put together my own lists of information to quickly draw from. I know that with repetition and searching I will become more familiar and even memorize better the different scripture references.

    I mentioned to my wife last night section 101 by Oliver that you mentioned in your Succession Post #3 (btw, I eagerly await the next post!!). She also had never heard there was another section on marriage that was originally included in the D&C but later replaced by 132.

    Anyway, thanks for all of your hard work. I am very grateful of your research which has allowed me to wake up!

    Wewingtonheet.

  6. Jim says:

    Will be more than happy to send them to you by email.

  7. wewingtonheet says:

    Watcher, is there a secure way to send an email address to Jim through wordpress? I am still new to this whole new-fangled blogging stuff!

  8. Wewingtonheet

    I just emailed you the two docs that Jim sent me. I did not include his email since I did not have permission from him to do so.

    I am not aware of a secure way to send an email address through wordpress. If you want me to send you his email address and ask him to contact you I will.

    Watcher

  9. Fusion says:

    Hi Watcher,

    Just read this again after a long time, as you linked to it in your comment section in ‘Controversy in Zion’.

    After some study I have always felt 2033 to be the main event. However, I just want to share with you a dream I had a few months back wherein I was told by someone ‘important’- I have no idea who- that ‘things’ would be kicking off soon and that 2020 is when everything gets moving. Unfortunately I don’t remember much of the dream but it got me to wake up and get serious about finding out more from the scriptures about this. Thank you, and Malachi, for the great input. BTW- wish I had come on that trip with you guys.

    Anyway, seems if the Book of Joseph that you posted on another blogpost has any merit, then 2016 is pointing to the date when things begin. If my dream has any merit- I don’t take myself too seriously, as I have watched myself from the front row through a million screwups my life- then my instincts, or that portion of the Spirit that puts up with me, makes me feel that after the initial events in 2016, 2020 will be when things are truly cooking, and 2033 is still the main event.

    My 2.5 cents (AUD) on the points above.

    Will have to share my other dream about when the things get rolling in the heavens, sometime.

    Fusion

  10. Interesting thoughts Fusion.

    Thank you for reminding me about the Book of Joseph statement inferance about the seven year transfer of wealth which I think we are currently in the beginning of the 5th year of. That is one more reason why I think we must be close to the return of God’s messengers.

%d bloggers like this: