Notable Emails #31- “Joseph was actually correcting the false doctrine taught by Orson Hyde, namely that the Father has a body of flesh and bones”

Email Exchange #1

 

 

Watcher,
This morning I was reading and studying from the 1830 original manuscript of the Book of Mormon and came across something interesting.
Both the current version of the Book of Mormon and Isaiah have the same wording for this verse.
3 Nephi 22:10
For the mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.
Isaiah 54:10
For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
However, the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon had it differently.
Book of Nephi, Chapter X, page 502

For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my PEOPLE be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

Though rejected as a church, his covenant with his people isn’t forgotten and he’ll gather them again when the fullness is restored.
Or could it mean something else?

My Reply

Did you remember to check Isaiah in the JST to see is it agrees with the original book of mormon?

It does
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my people be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee. 
It is unfortunate that someone chose to alter the original wording in the Book of Mormon because it was correct.
With regard to the significance of word change, it could be interpreted numerous ways.
If one is contending that the gospel covenant that was established among the saints of the third watch is still in force, I would agree that it was established and still in force for a remnant that became sanctified but have since died, nevertheless the saints in general and the church as a composite whole broke the covenant and had the fulness withdrawn from them.
Interestingly  the whole atonement statute/scape goat doctrine and narrative is predicated on the fact that Joseph and a handful of his associates were successful during the revelatory sweet spot in entering into the fulness of the gospel/covenant and being sealed up to eternal life. Joseph needed to make his calling and election made sure before he could step in as an acceptable offering intercessor and delay the judgments that were beginning to befall the inhabitants of the earth.
Nevertheless, Joseph and others need to return and once again establish the covenant in this generation. There is ample scripture to demonstrate this.
His Response
Shoot. I had the thought to look at the JST for Isaiah and didn’t because it wasn’t convenient to look up.
I was short on time. Lol.
Looks like JS knew a thing or two and the later uninspired changes have corrupted its meaning.
Email Exchange #2
There is an interesting blog post on the prophet Mormon possibly being a Lamanite on the BBC Blog.

I Made the Following Comment

[Did you remember that the apostasy of the Lamanites was foretold by Father Lehi in a patriarchal blessing AND that he placed a blessing on them that would eventually break the curse?]

Email Exchange #3

Hi watcher, I was thinking about who the future president elect will be that Joseph will send the proclamation to so I looked in the d&c to see what year that revelation was given. It was 1841 meaning William Henry Harrison was the president elect but he died shortly thereafter. I found this article comparing Trump to Harrison and it’s quite interesting looking at their campaign styles. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/23/the-political-circus-didnt-start-with-donald-trump/
So perhaps this is the president elect who will receive the proclamation, and Harrison was a shadow of things to come.

My Reply

great find thank you for sharing!!!

Email Exchange #4

Watcher,
Something fun I found today in Malachi 1.
 12 ¶But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the Lord is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
 13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the Lord of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the Lord.
 14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.
The footnote for “snuffed” is to belittle.
Could it be that the Lord knew about Denver and his “belittling” movement would attract the torn and lame and sick? And the Lord called him cursed for deceiving and trying to offer a false sacrifice?
Maybe bit of a stretch. 🙂
My  Reply
LOL someone brought that to my attention a year or two ago and I cryptically mentioned it in a blog post…
Ironically, the picture on one of his books shows a candle being snuffed out possibly illustrating how he snuffs out the significance of the sacred things of the Lord such as the visitation behind the veil, true order of the priesthood, the true definition of the other comforter, etc..
Frankly, I don’t think it is a stretch… the Lord uses word play with duel meanings all of the time such as the “the Smith” and “the Law”

Isaiah 54:1616 Behold, I have created the [Joseph] smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

How applicable is this one for when William Law detailed the true LAW of the Gospel in the Nauvoo Expositor

Isaiah 30:9

9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:

His Response

Oh my!! That last one is great. I never thought of that before. There’s so much to learn. Level upon level.
Thanks!
Email Exchange #5
Watcher,
Nice post. I’ll have to reread it again. It’s fascinating that you’re not the only one who’s bringing forth info about the true restoration of the Melchizedek priesthood.
I was reading in 3 Nephi 28 and noticed something I’ve never seen before. I always assumed that after Christ came everyone was converted and Zion was established almost immediately or over night.
Not the case.
According to 4 Nephi 1:1-2 it took two years to convert everyone.
And it came to pass that the thirty and fourth year passed away, and also the thirty and fifth, and behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.
2And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.
The crazy thing is that the 3 Nephites were preaching to the people after Christ had come, those same people who were spared for being more righteous, and yet the people were throwing them in pits and trying to kill them. It only was when they couldn’t did they repent and become converted.
18But this much I know, according to the record which hath been given—they did go forth upon the face of the land, and did minister unto all the people, uniting as many to the church as would believe in their preaching; baptizing them, and as many as were baptized did receive the Holy Ghost.
19And they were cast into prison by them who did not belong to the church. And the prisons could not hold them, for they were rent in twain.
20And they were cast down into the earth; but they did smite the earth with the word of God, insomuch that by his power they were delivered out of the depths of the earth; and therefore they could not dig pits sufficient to hold them.
21And thrice they were cast into a furnace and received no harm.
22And twice were they cast into a den of wild beasts; and behold they did play with the beasts as a child with a suckling lamb, and received no harm.

23And it came to pass that thus they did go forth among all the people of Nephi, and did preach the gospel of Christ unto all people upon the face of the land; and they were converted unto the Lord, and were united unto the church of Christ, and thus the people of that generation were blessed, according to the word of Jesus.

I always thought that Mormon was referring to what happened to them in 4 Nephi, but this was before Zion. Is this a pattern for when the first laborers of the last kingdom return to preach and gather Israel for the last time? Will the large body of people reject them at first and try to kill them only to become converted once they realize they can’t?

My Responses

Sorry about the delayed response.. I have been in the mountains riding a four wheeler
I to had also assumed that everyone had been converted overnight. That is a great find. It gives me hope about the upcoming Marvelous Work because I have been perplexed over the years at how few people seem to care or comprehend the truth and I just don’t see how the Zion movement could fill up the places of refuge when neither mainstream LDS or even the fringe LDS seems to care or comprehend.
 I think you have just identified a type of how the final restoration will pick up traction.
It will take place over a process of time when skepticism will be replaced by faith because of powerful miracles.
I need to reread and study the passages you have identified and also compare them against related passages for context.
My assumption (which could be wrong) is that in the general geographical area where the Savior descended to the cities mentioned in 3 Nephi, there was in fact an  immediate conversion and Zion was redeemed very quickly with the wicked being destroyed and the more righteous who had been baptized being converted.
I ASSUME that the two year period of time that everyone else was being converted is referring to the outlying geographical areas that were not involved in the miraculous appearance of Christ. “..in all the lands round about”
if you have discovered additional information that would confirm or refute that assumption please share.
Thanks for sharing.
His Response
I’m with you on your hypothesis I too believe that those that interacted with Christ were converted immediately, but those “round about” took some time and convincing through the constant miracles they were were exposed to.
But that alone is interesting, because after 200 years of peace the 3 Nephites preached the truth again and did miracles but no one was converted.
4 Ne 1:30-34
30Therefore they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, and they did cast them into prison; but by the power of the word of God, which was in them, the prisons were rent in twain, and they went forth doing mighty miracles among them.
31Nevertheless, and notwithstanding all these miracles, the people did harden their hearts, and did seek to kill them, even as the Jews at Jerusalem sought to kill Jesus, according to his word.
32And they did cast them into furnaces of fire, and they came forth receiving no harm.
33And they also cast them into dens of wild beasts, and they did play with the wild beasts even as a child with a lamb; and they did come forth from among them, receiving no harm.
34Nevertheless, the people did harden their hearts, for they were led by many priests and false prophets to build up many churches, and to do all manner of iniquity. And they did smite upon the people of Jesus; but the people of Jesus did not smite again. And thus they did dwindle in unbelief and wickedness, from year to year, even until two hundred and thirty years had passed away.

Alma shared that conversion comes through the Holy Ghost by fasting and prayer and not miracles.

Alma 5:45-46
45And this is not all. Do ye not suppose that I know of these things myself? Behold, I testify unto you that I do know that these things whereof I have spoken are true. And how do ye suppose that I know of their surety?
46Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me.
I wonder what the difference is other than growing up in time of trouble vs growing up in time of peace.
Anyway, I look forward to whatever you might find.
Enjoy the mountains.

His Other Response

A little more proof that the type is accurate for the future.
3 Ne. 21:14, 22-23
Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent … but if they will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will ESTABLISH my church among them … and they shall assist my people … that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.
Far after the apostasy of the LDS church there will be a need to preach and establish anew the church among the gentiles.
Email Exchange #6

Watcher,

Question? I thought John the Baptist gave Joseph the Levitical Priesthood while Peter, James, and John gave the Patriarchal, however in the following passage from your article you stated,

“When Elijah appeared in 1836 he was declaring that the patriarchal priesthood keys that he had bestowed on Joseph and Oliver by the laying on of hands seven years previously” and “The restoration of patriarchal priesthood keys by Elijah in 1829”

…however in your Searching for The Holy Order and 23 High Priest part 5 you said, 

“The patriarchal priesthood was restored by Peter, James, and John to dispense the saving ordinances of the Gospel. It is in those saving ordinances that the oath and covenant of the Father is made available and entered… and that is what makes it possible to enter into the gate and the holy order of the priesthood after the Son of God”

I read these two statements as one saying Elijah restored the patriarchal priesthood and the other that Peter, James, and John did? Where I’m going wrong here?

Thanks,

My Response

Sorry about the delayed response, i have been camping.

Thank you for bringing that discrepancy to my attention. I need to correct those statements in the Morley Farm paper. I am on a learning curve and have evolved from the teachings of the church to my current understanding.
I used to believe that John the Baptist restored Levitical Priesthood, PJand J restored patriarchal priesthood, and the Lord restored the Melchizedek Priesthood at the Morley Farm. But I was always confused about two things
1- why was the restoration of Priesthood by John the Baptist so important that the exact event and date was recorded in revelation while the restoration of priesthood by Peter James and John was so insignificant that we have only a few vague references
2- How come the priesthood keys that John the Baptist bestowed resulted in spiritual gifts of illumination and not just the letter of the law that the Levitical priesthood is associated with?
To make a long story short, I have come to believe that the “priesthood of Aaron” spoken of in Section 13 is synonymous with the “priesthood of Abraham” (patriarchal priesthood) [the second order of priesthood spoken of by Joseph in his Nauvoo Discourse]
There are numerous pieces of the puzzle that have helped me arrive at that conclusion which I have written about, including the real identity of John the Baptist,  but I don’t have the links available off hand.
It is in fact that patriarchal priesthood that John the Baptist restored that enabled the POWER to baptise and the missionary effort during the first two years prior to the morley Farm conference to preach and baptize people.
Here is a video I did years ago sharing this epiphany… I have not watched it for a while and there could still be some discrepancies but I think it will help to explain things better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyJzxz_qMZ4
Email Exchange #7
Hey …
I was getting ready to publish a post today [on the topic of Integrity] and Mrs Watcher who was looking over my shoulder reviewing it suggested that it might be offensive to you and/or ….
I tried to explain to her that you guys over at the interpreter are very thick skinned and that you are always being criticized by people with differing views and it will not bother you at all and that you will probably see the humor in it.
I am only being passionate about the message I want to get out. Lastly, I informed her that I have a very small readership and few people will even see it.
Because of her insistence I have decided to allow you to review it and let me know if you think it is out of line or inaccurate in any way.
I apologize if this does not copy well from wordpress
Thank you for your consideration
His Response

From the way this is written, it appears that you were going to publish on your blog? That wouldn’t be an issue for anyone at Interpreter because you are certainly free to have and express your opinions.

If it were for Interpreter, we wouldn’t accept it as a blog post because that would imply endorsement. As you can imagine, believing that you should have your say and agreeing (and particularly promoting it) are not the same.

It doesn’t really engage any article we have, so it wouldn’t work as a comment.

If you are looking for discussion, have you looked at the Mormon discussion and dialogue blog?

I think I have seen similar posts there–and they generate a lot of discussion.

[Editorial Note: He didn’t seem to be offended at the post so I posted it :)]
Email Exchange #8

Hi Watcher,

What are your thoughts on the possibility of the president elect prophecy being fulfilled in the next few months?  Do you have any info that would lead you to believe anything more than general speculation?

Thanks!

My Response

I am incredibly hopeful and anticipatory and I feel like the many signs that we see around us in the heavens and world events seem to indicate that we are ready for some kind of crescendo
But alas,  it is all speculation on my part 🙂
[BTW I think that many of the DATES on which the modern revelations were given are inspired prophetic DATES. For that reason, if I were a betting man, the date I would choose for the proclamation to go forth is January 19th, the date that Section 124 was given. As I recall, Jan 20 was not the appointed date for the inauguration back in 1841. It is interesting that the inauguration date has since changed. God often waits for the last minute of a prophetic time period to fulfill his prophecies as evidenced by the prophecy of Samuel the Lamanite]

His Response

I hear ya.  I felt like this in 2008-09.  I thought it was going to be then!  I guess one just waits and watches but…. don’t sell the house yet.

Do you think we would even hear about such a proclamation if it was sent?

Thanks!

My Reply

Great question
My guess is YES!
For one thing, the narrative in 124 seems to indicate that Zion will have been redeemed prior to the proclamation going forth which would create quite a stir.
Also, note the following passage
“This proclamation shall be made to all the kings of the world, to the four corners thereof..”
That passage could be interpreted in two ways. One is the kings in all of the world including the four corners OR the kings in all the world AND the people of the four corners of the world.
Also, Section 105 seems to be speaking of the same proclamation and it indicates that the proclamation will go to the “ends of the earth” which seems to indicate everybody not just the leaders of nations

Doctrine and Covenants 105:3939 And lift up an ensign of peace, and make a proclamation of peace unto the ends of the earth;

 

Email Exchange #9

                Hi Watcher,

Love your blog and book!

Un-frieking believable!  I must agree.  Thanks for all your insights.  I am saddened there are only 184 subscribers to your blog.  There is so much gold here.

Just finished chapter 24 “Seven servants and an angel”. I nearly fell over after reading.  I have been trying to piece many of these statements together for awhile.  Especially about who these angels were that are to come.  So incredible.

Any further insights you can add regarding the identity of the 6?  Also, any thoughts on the coming 2 solar eclipses crossing the U.S. in a 7 year time period and intersecting at Jackson county? (Jackson county, Illinois that is, I assume if it was Jackson county Missouri it would have just been too damn obvious.)  First one is in 2017…

Best

My Response

Hey good to here from you and thank you for the kind words
“Especially about who these angels were that are to come.  So incredible.  Any further insights you can add regarding the identity of the 6?”
Yes somewhere on a previous blog the most likely candidates have been listed. If I can find it I will send you the link.
 
“Also, any thoughts on the coming 2 solar eclipses crossing the U.S. in a 7 year time period and intersecting at Jackson county? (Jackson county, Illinois that is, I assume if it was Jackson county Missouri it would have just been too damn obvious.)  First one is in 2017.
I was not aware of those coming solar eclipses nor did I know there was a Jackson County IL. I am excited to learn more.. thanks for sharing !
Looks like you have a lot of knowledge in alternative health… that is awesome!

His Reply

I am not sure if there is any other meaning one could ascribe to this other than judgement is coming of sorts.

This is the best one I have found…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationaleclipse.wordpress.com/2016/06/28/x-marks-the-spot-two-total-solar-eclipses-in-seven-years/amp/

Thanks and stay in touch with any new insights and posts.  Would love to hear about them.

Email Exchange #10

Watcher,

While reading 3 Ne 21 and 22 today it just clicked that the Lord was telling the Nephites that the latter day church would be rejected.
He tells them of the marvelous work that’s going to happen in chapter 21 and then shares the reason for the marvelous work to come from by sharing Isaiah.
3 Ne 21
4Fear not, for thou shalt not be ashamed; neither be thou confounded, for thou shalt not be put to shame; for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. (When the Lord rejected them in the 2nd watch D&C 124:32)
6For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7For a small moment have I forsaken thee, but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment, but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
I love being able to see things because of what you’ve taught about the 3 watches.
Thanks!

My Reply

What a great find…
I have previously written about the three general divisions of apostate Christianity being characterize in scripture as the whore, (Catholicism) her harlots (Protestantism) and the unfaithful bride/wife (condemned saints of the restoration)
I have vacillated back and forth between calling the saints a wife or a bride but the above passage answers the question and it makes sense since the fullness did briefly touch down and since covenant was entered into before the apostasy was completed..
The above passage fits into this scenario nicely characterizing the saints of the second watch as a “reproached widow” who has been “forsaken” and “refused” and incurred the “wrath” of the betrayed husband because of unfaithfulness and yet the hopeful bottom-line of the message is that the husband is going to eventually in the third watch show mercy to the estranged wife and will gather her into his arms.
Thanks for sharing!!!!

His Reply

Thank you.
I’ve never put the three into a category like you just did.
the whore, (Catholicism) her harlots (Protestantism) and the unfaithful bride/wife (condemned saints of the restoration)
I’m going to have to add that to my scriptures. Thank you again for sharing your years searching with me.

Email Exchange #11

Hi Watcher

Haven’t seen you post in a while and just wanted to see if everything is fine with you healthwise or otherwise.  I continue to learn, ponder, study and write.  It can be challenging with a full-time job as it can become all-consuming to “waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness.”  Daily I am amazed at how plain the truth is, and yet how far afield “my people” have strayed.  Praise God that I was led to find your blog and other resources to start me down this path.

Interestingly, I have a cousin who is squarely in the middle of the Snufferite movement.  His brother-in-law is…

…But as you rightly pointed out in the your comment on my blog, they are making the same mistake the LDS did by relying on a man, unless they think he is the resurrected Joseph.  Their test will be at what point to they finally see the truth which is manifest in the scriptures.  Unfortunately, Denver comes off as such an authority on the scriptures that many don’t question his assumptions and conclusions, even when he twists things to the breaking point….

I Am really focused on Priesthood as a result of what I see are Denver’s false teachings.  As you know he places patriarchal priesthood atop Melchizedek, which inversion causes all sort of doctrinal problems for the LDS and the Snufferites.  That will likely be my next blog subject.

God bless.

P.S.  You should check the comments section of my blog on King Follett.  Josh left an amazing reference from the JS Papers which indicates that Joseph was actually correcting the false doctrine taught by Orson Hyde, namely that the Father has a body of flesh and bones that has since become D&C 130:22.
https://onewhoissearching.com/2016/05/06/king-follett-discourse-redefining-god-in-our-own-image/#comment-493
https://onewhoissearching.com/2016/05/06/king-follett-discourse-redefining-god-in-our-own-image/#comment-494
My Response
That statement from Josh is incredible!!!!!!!!
I love how the Lord shows us the truth and then later re-verifies it through other avenues
I lost the desire to blog for a while but I am working on a post right now… all is well.
I have sure enjoyed your posts and appreciate so much what you are doing to bring the truth to light…I look forward to your next post

Email Exchange #12

Watcher every day I have been meaning to send you a note to inquire how things are going for you and yours.Since my Inquisition and casting out of the corporate church my understanding and direction of the Spirit in my studies of Scripture have been nothing less than miraculous.

I was reading in the unpublished revelations by Collier,the supplication or prayer recorded by Joseph on 10 December 1833 and the direct answer six days later in the revelation of section 101 in the Doctrine and Covenants on December 16, 1833 an amazing testimony of the rejection of the law and ordinances and thus a reformation needed in all things.

I find the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants arrangement of sections,1,20,107,84,102,86… another testimony of the lack of priesthood and specific instruction needed on priesthood ,and power required to be restored in order to have revealed section 124; 28… Etc.

I have been studying and have learned lined up online that the complete documentation of the restoration and the rejection in the 3 1/2 year period is hidden to the populace because they have no interest to knock and gain the insights of the word or voice declared that we must rely , Thus the darkness at noon day.

I rejoice in the help you have given in my study,you do not realize the importance that your book , and friendship played in helping me realize that knocking is imperative in understanding that the Word is sharper than a two edge sword that will be the dividing between those that are deceived and those that receive the word. Thank you! I pray things are going well for you. Your friend

My Reply

Sorry about the delayed response. I have been traveling.
The same thing happened to me. Once I was officially separated from the corporate church the flow of intelligence really ramped up.. it is no coincidence. You are being blessed for your sacrifices and convictions and your searching of the scriptures.
[Nevertheless, leaving the church is  not for everyone. Those that are still weak in the faith and in their understanding of the scriptures can get beat up pretty badly after they leave it]

Email Exchange #13

Hiya Watcher,

I have been studying your blog carefully, praying about what I’m reading. I’m trying to be as diligent as I can in weighing this all.

Do you happen to have a source for this quote (highlighted in blue)? This does seem to be a very significant oversight to your point, but I have done several google searches, within Denver’s blog via site:denversnuffer.com , and cannot find a time when he claims that Peter James and John conferred or restored any Priesthood.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/rebuttal-to-passing-the-heavenly-gift-part-three/

My Reply

I think I was referring to what Denver had said in his book. I am not sure if it was his book on the second comforter or passing the heavenly gift. Probably the heavenly gift book.
As you probably know, if you have followed him very closely, he has evolved a great deal in what he believes between the writing of his second comforter book and today. He has waffled back on forth on the topic of priesthood.
Based on the comments you have made, it seems that you are heavily invested in Denver Snuffer and that you are only studying my blog for the purpose of making a determination about Snuffer, based on the few short posts and comments I have made about Snuffer. If that is the case, you are really missing out.
The real content of import is in the other 99% of the posts that I don’t speak about Snuffer.
You should pray about whether God is really going to fulfill his unconditional promises and prophecies in Modern revelation.
You should pray about the prophetic narrative of the restoration movement, and Joseph Smith’s ministry, and the complete rejection of the church in Nauvoo that I have documented.
That information is the really compelling data that proves that we don’t need anyone to continue the restoration because the restoration was completely put on hold four generations ago [and a final RESTORATION by God’s anointed servants is required and prophesied about.]
I have documented that the light is going to shine forth again and a final restoration will be ushered in and that the true church is going to need to be established again just as the prophecies state..

His Response

Thank you for your response.

It’s actually the other way around; I started at the other 99% of your blog, and then stumbled upon your essays on Denver. I have read most of his books, so I was curious to read a rebuttal from somebody with as much background knowledge as you have.

My only motivation is to find the truth about the restoration, and to find more understanding and knowledge. Since Denver claims to be a true messenger, I feel a duty and obligation to search his message thoroughly and have made it a matter of serious study and prayer.

I did a keyword search through both of those books (Second Comforter & Passing the Heavenly Gift). The only applicable passage I could find was one that seems to agree with your point of view. I’ve attached the passage for your review.

Could it have been another book? I’ll search through some of his others to see if I can find it.

followup email

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follow up email

I found something. It’s from the book “Beloved Enos.”

Highlighted/attached:

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My Reply

Good find.
Also, if you will re-read Denver’s first blog during the early posts you will see how his beliefs have evolved over time on a number of issues and that his evolution is almost always sparked by he research rather than by a “thus sayeth the Lord” directive from God.
For most people, the evolution of beliefs is a normal and healthy part of studying the gospel and doctrinal growth. However Denver has placed himself in a different category than most people.
He is claiming to be someone who has been directly taught by the Lord while in the spirit. Because of this, the huge paradigm changes that he has had on so many doctrinal issues, such a long time after the Lord began visiting him is very revealing and problematic.
He is now backtracking and claiming that his first visitation from the  Lord in 2003 revealed that the baptism done by the Latter day Saints is not valid, but he supposedly just didn’t understand what the Lord showed him back then, until now… really? Read his early posts, there is no hint of this emerging awareness on his part until many years later.
Anyway, I really don’t want to continue discussing Snuffer… It is not my responsibility to try and convince you about him beyond what I have written.
Frankly, if you have really read the other 99% of my posts and understood the prophetic narrative of church history, and the countless scriptures and inspired utterances about how the marvelous work and a wonder will take place and Joseph’s role in it, then the fact that you are still hung up on Snuffer does not bode well for you and any further feedback you get from me will be fruitless.
Good luck in you quest to determine what role Snuffer plays

Email Exchange #14

Greetings Watcher,

May a trouble you for a nugget please?
I am looking for a D&C reference (or other scriptural reference) for changes in name of the LDS church.
You have documented well the four name changes.
For some reason I can’t find your statements quoting scripture for this, if there are any. Perhaps there are only historical notes documenting this and statements like those of David Whitmer.
If you know of scripture pointing to these name changes, would you mind sharing them with me please?
Thanks so very much for your precious time and expertise.

My Response

I can’t remember which posts I blogged about this topic and it is difficult for me to sift through the 300+ posts, so I will go from memory on this topic the best I can…
1-  Regarding the originating name “Church of Christ”. It shows up in modern revelation from the very beginning of the formal establishment of the church, several times with the most prominent being the articles of the church (section 20)-

81 It shall be the duty of the several churches, composing the church of Christ,

2- Regarding the Name “Church of God” , it begins to show up in modern revelation shortly after the Melchizedek priesthood is restored at the Morley Farm in June of 1831 resulting in the High Priests retroactively becoming the leading administrative body of the church. High Priests have administrative authority in the Church of Christ over the “presiding elders” who are not High Priests.
People generally assume that it is just another name for the church of Christ, but a careful contextual reading of the passages in light of the prophetic narrative of the historical timeline indicates that it has reference to those called to a higher law/priesthood/church and that those faithful in the church of God are also called the Church of the First Born, – Some of the passages below are pretty general about the nature of the church of God,
I think it is section 107 is where their administrative privileges in the church of Christ are mentioned

Doctrine and Covenants 84:17

17 Which priesthood continueth in the church of God in all generations, and is without beginning of days or end of years.

  • Doctrine and Covenants 70:5

    5 Wherefore, I have appointed unto them, and this is their business in the church of God, to manage themand the concerns thereof, yea, the benefits thereof…..

    10 And behold, none are exempt from this law who belong to the church of the living God;

  • Doctrine and Covenants 76:5454 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.
  • Doctrine and Covenants 88:55 Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son—
  • Doctrine and Covenants 93:2222 And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn.Doctrine and Covenants 93:22

    22 And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn.

  • Doctrine and Covenants 107:80

    80 And after this decision it shall be had in remembrance no more before the Lord; for this is the highest council of the church of God, and a final decision upon controversies in spiritual matters.

3-  Regarding the condemnation resulting in the name of Christ being taken out of the Name of the church and the new name being “The Church of the Latter day Saints”,-
That is a well documented historical event which is contained in numerous historical documents including the seven volume history of the church, wherein a church conference was called in 1834 and by unanimous vote the name was changed.
“During a conference held on May 3, 1834, with Joseph Smith acting as moderator, “a motion was made by Sidney Rigdon, and seconded by Newel K. Whitney, that this Church be known hereafter by the name of ‘The Church of the Latter-day Saints.’ Remarks were made by the members, after which the motion passed by unanimous vote” (History of the Church 2:62-63). er, p. 73).”
Shortly after this ominous name change, the Lord tells the leaders and members of the church that they are under condemnation and must have a reformation in ALL THINGS.
Interestingly, this new name without the name of Christ in it is documented on the face of the Kirtland Temple and in the first Doctrine and Covenants

Church of the Latter day Saints

In the dedicatory prayer in section 109, given in April of 1836 you will notice that the saints are petitioning the Lord to once again put his name upon the condemned church 

79 And also this church, to put upon it thy name. And help us by the power of thy Spirit, that we may mingle our voices with those bright, shining seraphs around thy throne, with acclamations of praise, singing Hosanna to God and the Lamb!

 
4- Regarding the name “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints”, the very first time it shows up in modern revelation is in section 115 in 1838. Interestingly, the Saints had already reinserted the name of Christ back into the name of the Church years before this revelation was given, which demonstrates that that revelation is not a directive from the Lord to change the name of the church again.
 
My contention is that there is no revelation given by the Lord allowing the saints to reinsert the name of Christ into the church. The Saints simply did that on their own. My contention is that section 115, which is the scriptural justification given for using that name was actually a prophecy about the future. Please note that the Lord is saying that the saints “shall be called” (future) then do a key word search using the terms contained in verse 5-

And also unto my faithful servants who are of the high council of my church in Zion, for thus it shall be called, and unto all the elders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world;

 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 Verily I say unto you all: Arise and shine forth, that thy light may be a standard for the nations;

Email Exchange #15

Hello,

I recently found your blog after having read many of the books that Denver Snuffer wrote; I’m trying to sort through this all and find more light and knowledge about the Lord and how to know His will for the last days.
I’m curious.
How do you interpret  D&C 112:30-32. It seems to contradict one of your main ideas — that Joseph didn’t usher in the dispensation of the fulness of times.
 30 For unto you, the Twelve, and those, the First Presidency, who are appointed with you to be yourcounselors and your leaders, is the power of this priesthood given, for the last days and for the last time, in the which is the dispensation of the fulness of times,

 31 Which power you hold, in connection with all those who have received a dispensation at any time from the beginning of the creation;

 32 For verily I say unto you, the keys of the dispensation, which ye have received, have come down from the fathers, and last of all, being sent down from heaven unto you.

My Response

Peter James and john began the “dispensation of the last days and the last time”. That dispensation lasts from that time until the coming of Christ in glory. Contained within that last great dispensation are other dispensations such as the dispensation of gospel of Abraham which was ushered in in 1836 (Section 110) and the dispensation of the Fulness of times which the began to be ushered in in 1842 (Section 128-
“for it is necessary in the ushering in of the dispensation of the fulness of times, which dispensation is now beginning to usher in…”
However we know from several sources that the fullness of times was not ushered in because of the transgressions of the people.
The dispensation being referred to in section 112 that you quoted came down from the patriarchal fathers, ie, Abraham and Moses (Section 110)
Three Watches
I don’t have  time to provide all of the details in an email but if you would like to learn more about the true history of Mormonism I would refer you to the youtubes that I did on the topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NRWs38Ux7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0HnqHsXDoY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDC5AQgNajg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj4xOHvMkpQ
btw
Since you are parsing through the teachings of Snuffer, I am providing thee following snippet…. that might help you discern the truth about the Snuffer movement a-nd his false teachings about the Second Comforter

I suspect that some of you are speculating that perhaps those passages in section 124 are referring to  the ordinance that Joseph referred to as “calling and election”

“….Certainly that would be included in the category of “conversations” that are had in holy places. One of the many conversations that Christ might have with a person could have to do with that. However I would point out that calling and election is not the crowning ordinance of salvation, rather, it  is the promise that one who has proven himself faithful to the end will at some time in the future receive their final exaltation.

There are lots of different conversations that God has with his people.

The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that knowing that Jesus is the Son of God by hearing the voice of God out of heaven is not the same as having ones calling and election made sure. Those are two different and distinct conversations.

He further explained that having ones calling and election made sure was the promise that exaltation would take place at some future time:

Now for the secret and grand key. Though they might hear the voice of God and know that Jesus was the Son of God, this would be no evidence that their calling and election was made sure, that they were sealed in the heavens and had the promise of eternal life in the kingdom of God.

Then, having this promise sealed unto them, it was an anchor to the soul, sure and steadfast. Though the thunders might roll and lightnings flash, and earthquakes bellow, and war gather thick around, yet this hope and knowledge would support the soul in every hour of trial, trouble and tribulation. Then knowledge through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the grand key that unlocks the glories and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that it is only AFTER God has thoroughly proved a person and given them the their calling and election (the promise of eternal life) that they will receive the “other comforter” which consists of the Lord Jesus Christ taking up his abode with that person and teaching him face to face about the mysteries of the kingdom of God:

When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions–Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.

As you can see, the other comforter wherein the Son reveals the Father and teaches the person face to face about the mysteries of the Kingdom of God only takes place after one has proven himself and obtained the promise of eternal life known as calling and election.

When you ponder the significance of what Joseph said, it makes perfect sense that God is not going to reveal the Father and teach the mysteries of the kingdom to someone who is unproven and who has not been sealed up to eternal life.

Satan’s followers who fall from grace achieve the level of knowing for sure that Christ is the Savior of the world and then they deny him. But I so not believe that they ever receive their calling and election or that they are brought into the presence of the Father and taught the mysteries of eternity. 

Of all of the many false doctrines and heresies that Denver Snuffer has introduced to the world, his false teachings about the  “second comforter” is perhaps the most profound and destructive.

Why?

Because it has motivated countless scripturally and doctrinally ignorant people to petition the Lord for something they are light years away from being qualified for.

It was very presumptuous for them to be petitioning for it.

It is highly inappropriate for them to seek the other comforter before having their calling and election made sure and  is absurd to assume that Christ is going to periodically visit and teach you about the mysteries of his kingdom and reveal the Father to you before you have sufficiently repented, learned what the fulness really is, proven yourself worthy, sacrificed all things for the gospel and lived the law of the Gospel including consecration.

Lectures on faith teaches that a man must first sacrifice all things and live the fullness of the gospel before such a blessing can be secured.

In my opinion, there is not one man living on the face of the earth at this time of apostasy  that has sacrificed all things for Christ or that is living the fullness. If anyone could live the fullness right now, there would be no need for the final restoration (during which time the two witnesses will appear. D&C 77)

Proving yourself requires full compliance to the law of the Gospel as contained in Section 42, including the law of consecration (not only to say but to do)  which cannot be complied with until the servants return with the fullness of the priesthood and gospel and saving ordinances.

Denver has essentially taught that one can take an easy shortcut and get the second comforter BEFORE they qualify and receive their calling and election.

That is categorically false.

Denver apparently assumed that there could be “exceptions to the rule” pertaining to Joseph Smith’s teaching that the other comfort must follow calling and election.

Denver’s false assumption was apparently derived from the false notion that ALL visitations from the Savior constitute the second or other comforter. However that is not true. The Savior can and does appear to people and give them instruction and commandments long before they qualify to have their calling and election made sure and long before they receive the other Comforter and are blessed with the special relationship of having the Father revealed and having the mysteries of the kingdom taught to them.

There are grave consequences to praying for things that you should not be praying for.

The Lord has continually admonished the saints in modern revelation to study his word and then to study things out in our minds… AFTER we have studied his word.

When the Lord tells us to study from the “best books” he is referring to the best books of scripture. Reading the JST Bible,  Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants is much more productive than reading the apocrypha, let alone Shakespear, Dickens and Wadsworth!

The apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, nag hammadi and dead sea scrolls can all provide great insights into the gospel plan and help connect some dots to the deeper things only after one has a firm foundation in the revealed word of God and only to the extent that the revealed word of God provides context and consistency to the interpretations as done under the influence of the spirit.

The Lord acknowledged that there was profitable information in the apocrypha as well as the interpolations of man. He then encouraged us to read it under the influence of the spirit to determine which parts are true and which parts are not.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha—There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly; 

 2 There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men. 

 3 Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated. 

 4 Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;

 5 And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom; 

 6 And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen.

The bottom-line is that those who study and treasure up the word of God in the scriptures and learn by the spirit can parse out the truth and not be deceived. Those that do not have the spirit, are in a lost and fallen state. Even much in the four standard works cannot be understood by them.

When the saints neglect reading the scriptures and words of the true modern prophets and pray for things in ignorance it opens them up to deception by Satan.

As a result of Denvers “Second Comforter” revolution there are a growing number of doctrinally naive people who are exercising zeal without knowledge

Denver’s movement has spawned numerous deceived people who are claiming visitations from the Savior,  They erroneously classify these visitations from false Christs as the “second comforter”.

These are no doubt among the false prophets that Christ warned about in Matthew

The scriptures identify at least three methods by which the false prophets of the last days would deceive their followers into following them:

By the gift of prophecy, by showing signs wonders, and by providing a testimony of Christ.

Denver has provided all three as proof that he is a true servant of Christ….. Yet the scriptures inform us that the two primary ways that a person can avoid being deceived is to treasure up the word of God and to take the Holy Ghost as ones guide.

It is shocking to find the three enticements associated with false prophets showing up in Denvers recent blog posts and talk.

His Reply

I believe you’re setting up a bit of a strawman in the beginning. Your argument would be much stronger if you refute directly Denver’s arguments, rather than over-generalizing his teachings.

For example, you say Denver taught one can take a shortcut toward having their Second Comforter. I’ve never heard or read him teach that (if he has I would be genuinely curious to read that). I’ve heard him say that one must cry out to the Lord and live consecration and sacrifice before one is worthy; and that petitioning the Lord starts the cycle and allows the Lord to begin the process of trials, and teaching us what we must sacrifice to have our hearts made ready.

He says he was 50 when the Lord first appeared to him, after decades of petitioning the Lord to know what he lacked and where he was still in need of repentance. After decades of sacrifice and change and so forth.

Would be curious to hear more specifics.

PS Bless you for all your diligence in digging and searching. I’ve enjoyed your writings tremendously and have begun praying and searching over the scriptures and ideas you bring up.

My Response

I think I have been pretty direct in refuting Denver’s claims. Perhaps you have not read all of the posts I have written about the topic or perhaps I should not have assumed that you had read them, which would have provided more of a foundation for the last comments I sent.
I have pointed out that Section 110 is true. I have provided countless direct and contextual evidences to show the veracity of the Section and the fact that it was a true historical event that fits seamlessly into the restoration narrative. I believe that reading the section under the influence of the spirit with a solid foundation in the scriptures and history of the church bears witness of this. I think it is a very serious thing to deny revelation, particularly if you are claiming to be a prophet of God.
Denver denies or at least goes to great lengths to question the veracity of it’s historicity and to disparage belief in it based on a purely intellectual approach to history and doctrine.
I have pointed out how Denver’s baptism protocol is based on the Book of Mormon instead of the Doctrine and Covenants which is problematic.
I have pointed out how Denver’s new priesthood certification protocol by women who have no need to pass any certification of faithfulness themselves is contrary to the order of God and inconsistent with scripture.
I have pointed out that the second comforter always follows calling and election and that Denver hase taught the opposite based on some false assumptions.
I could go on and on identifying doctrinal problems with Denver’s pronouncements but it really is all besides the point in my opinion.
The bottom-line for me has to do with a person’s ability to exercise faith in the unconditional promises and prophecies in modern revelation. If they are false and will not come to pass, then none of this matters and JS was a fraud.
On the other hand, if God does have all time, past, present and future continually before his eyes, then all of his unconditional future promises about Joseph Smith and the final work of restoration are true and will come to pass.
Denver just gave a talk wherein he, in my opinion, explained that he and his followers were the only ones with the true baptism protocol and that they would be the ones to do the final work right up to the coming of Christ in glory.
By so doing, Denver has denied the veracity of the unconditional promises about how Joseph and others would return to complete their missions in the flesh. He has rejected the narrative in section one and 101 about how Zion will be established.
He has basically replaced Joseph Smith calling as the prophet of the last dispensation with himself.
Anyway, that is just one man’s opinion. I am not seeking a following. I just share my opinions on what I have found in the scriptures.
I appreciate your agency to believe however you want to believe and pray that your search for truth will be fruitful.
May the Lord bless you to that end.
His Reply

Watcher, I love your energy and how deeply you feel on these important things!! some thoughts below:

On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 7:56 AM, One Whoiswatching <onewhoiswatching@gmail.com> wrote:

I think I have been pretty direct in refuting Denver’s claims. Perhaps you have not read all of the posts I have written about the topic or perhaps I should not have assumed that you had read them, which would have provided more of a foundation for the last comments I sent.

I wasn’t referring to your other posts; I’ve read those and think you bring up many important points. I was only referring to the content in your email, specifically that Denver says one can somehow take a shortcut in having an audience with the Lord. That’s the only point I was looking for clarification on.

I have pointed out that Section 110 is true. I have provided countless direct and contextual evidences to show the veracity of the Section and the fact that it was a true historical event that fits seamlessly into the restoration narrative. I believe that reading the section under the influence of the spirit with a solid foundation in the scriptures and history of the church bears witness of this. I think it is a very serious thing to deny revelation, particularly if you are claiming to be a prophet of God.
Agreed. One needs to be very careful before throwing out revelation. I’m looking deeply into the 110 argument on both sides, trying to figure it out.

One thing that does make me wonder is that Joseph often referred to the coming of Elijah as a future event, even after section 110 happened. Maybe there are two fulfillments; prophecy often is fulfilled twice.

Denver denies or at least goes to great lengths to disparage belief in it based on a purely intellectual approach to history and doctrine.
I have pointed out how Denver’s baptism protocol is based on the Book of Mormon instead of the Doctrine and Covenants which is problematic.
I have pointed out how Denver’s new priesthood certification protocol by women who have no need to pass any certification of faithfulness themselves is contrary to the order of God and inconsistent with scripture.
I have pointed out that the second comforter always follows calling and election and that Denver hase taught the opposite based on some false assumptions.
I could go on and on identifying doctrinal problems with Denver’s pronouncements but it really is all besides the point in my opinion.
Agreed that these doctrinal problems are worth investigating, and problematic.

But my only question is about the specific claim about the you can take a shortcut to have the Second Comforter. I’m genuinely curious to find that in Denver’s books, talks, or blog posts, because it would be problematic to me as well.

The bottom-line for me has to do with a person’s ability to exercise faith in the unconditional promises and prophecies in modern revelation. If they are false and will not come to pass, then none of this matters and JS was a fraud.

Agreed. I’m trying to reconcile this all and get more light from the Lord on it.

On the other hand, if God does have all time, past, present and future continually before his eyes, then all of his unconditional future promises about Joseph Smith and the final work of restoration are true and will come to pass.
After reading for several hours from your blogs and your videos these past few days, I prayed yesterday morning about whether Joseph Smith is the latter-day Davidic servant spoken of by Isaiah and many other prophets.
I felt a peace and a burning in my bosom. I asked, “but aren’t feelings such a brittle gauge for these kinds of things?” and the Spirit put Section 6:23 into my mind, “Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?”

When I’ve prayed about whether Denver is a true messenger, it’s been very hard to get any answer. Silence is the most common. Once, I went up on a nearby hill and prayed for several hours about it, and the Spirit put these words into my mind, “What Spirit teaches a man to pray?” which I took to be a fairly luke-warm answer. Something like, ‘well, he’s getting you to pray more, so that’s not a bad thing.’

Denver just gave a talk wherein he, in my opinion, explained that he and his followers were the only ones with the true baptism protocol and that they would be the ones to do the final work right up to the coming of Christ in glory.
I heard him say that, and it did make me uneasy. The Lord has said there are holy men that we know not of (D&C 49:8). I believe this is a word of caution to us to ever think we have ‘the one true’ anything. The Lord owns this work, not us.
Email Exchange #16
Hey Watcher,
Hope you’re doing well.
I was re-reading “Reading Abraham While God Winks” in your book.
Wow! Simply amazing. I missed so much the first couple of times through.
Quick question …
Does Abraham’s Patriarchal-Evangelical priesthood contain the sealing power as indicated in D&C 124:92-93?
92 That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people,
93 That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
I thought that was a Melchizedek or Highest Priesthood function bestowed by God’s own mouth as in Helaman 10:6-7
6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people.
7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.
Or is there a subtle difference that I might be missing between the two passages. I know one says bind and the other seal, but they both say loose.
Thanks!

My Reply

It I my belief that Hyrum’s sealing power was patriarchal because the same section informs us that the fullness had been taken…
It is tricky because obviously those that get the fullness still have the patriarchal sealing power
Also, it is possible that the word seal could be one of those terms that has multiple meanings..
Email Exchange #17 

Did you see this?  Have you come across this in your searches?

Who’s Afraid of Section 77?

My Reply

Yes I saw it. I had the same experience he had doing a search of the word restoration but I just assumed that it was a glitch in the system… I did not think to check other keywords in 77 like he did. I think his find is remarkable and deplorable if in fact the church has intentionally manipulated their search function to overlook 77
I suppose it is possible that a glitch is simply omitting all of 77 from searches but it does not seem likely to me. I am not a programmer but it seems that a search feature would be programmed to search all of the content and that it would require some kind of additional programming to have it avoid an entire section
His Response
Do you think the Searcher is correct in his musings as to why it’s blocked?  Might there be other reasons?
My Reply

difficult to know for sure

His Response

Can you think of examples from the scriptures where the Lord has used a prophet to test his people to see if they will follow the prophet even when what he is telling them is contrary to scripture and the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

My Response
Off hand the only passage that comes to mind is found in 1 Kings 13
https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/god-will-never-allow-a-prophet-to-lead-anyone-astray%e2%80%a6/
That is not specifically having to do with the gospel but it does show that God allows true prophets to mislead people to see if they will follow the word of God when it differs from mortal priesthood authority..
Another indirect ref would be in Isaiah where the eyes of the seers are covered because of the transgressions of the people… that would obviously result in false teachings and directives from God’s seers.
Email Exchange #18
I want to thank you for all the time and energy you’ve put into your blogs, email responses and YouTube videos.
I can honestly say that the Lord has been kind to me in leading me to your blogs. If it weren’t for them, serious study and reflection I would’ve fallen victim to DS or become disillusioned with JS as a prophet and the BoM.
I thank God for his holy word and for blessing those with eyes to see and hears to hear who share with others who haven’t developed such gifts yet.
Your blogs are like training wheels for those just awaking to he fact that the LDS church isn’t what they claim it to be, but aren’t ready to throw it all away and still believe in JS and the foundation work he laid out.
My eyes are seeing patterns everywhere. In fact, I saw this this morning. It looks like the Brother of Jared was an intercessory of sorts.
Check out Ether 2:15

And the brother of Jared repented of the evil which he had done, and did call upon the name of the Lord for his brethren who were with him. And the Lord said unto him: I will forgive thee and thy brethren of their sins; but thou shalt not sin any more, for ye shall remember that my Spirit will not always strive with man; wherefore, if ye will sin until ye are fully ripe ye shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And these are my thoughts upon the land which I shall give you for your inheritance; for it shall be a land choice above all other lands.

Enjoy your time with your family.

Listing of Past Notable Emails

Notable Emails #30 “I have to disagree to the credit you give to the LDS Church and saving ordinances. I do not see any saving ordinances, temple rites, secret signs or tokens as of any value.”

Notable Emails #29 “I enjoyed your post on Joseph Smith as the ‘Covenant Servant’ in Isaiah 42.. however..”

Notable Emails #28- “Why do we need prophets and apostles when they refer us to scholars for doctrine and church history understanding”Notable Emails #27 “what makes you so sure JS was not just a charlatan from the beginning?”

Notable Emails #26 This and that, this and that, tell us how it is Hugh, we won’t look back!

Notable Emails #25 “Can I ask you for some help with chapter 27 in 2 Nephi?”

Notable Emails #24 “I recently awoke or at least have begun to awaken. Since August I’m no longer blindly following the brethren and traditions of the church.”

Notable Emails #22 “My prediction is that those who accept the gospel of Bill Reel (non-literal historicity of the Book of Mormon) will ultimately either loose all of their faith…”

Notable Emails #21 ” I don’t believe the current LDS Church has ANY “authority” – especially BECAUSE they preach that the culmination of the Gospel is the Masonic Rituals..”

Notable Emails #19- “Sometime ago I had an extraordinary experience where I was forgiven of some of my sins”

 Notable Emails #18- “I wake up every morning with this intense feeling that we are getting closer”

 Notable Emails #17 “Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.”

 Notable Emails #16 “the Lord wouldn’t give a young church such responsibility so early”

Notable Emails #15: “It would be so hard to do if we didn’t have the word crunching software available to us to use. Now I can see why so many are deceived. “

 Notable Emails #14 (b) “who was the legal heir and successor of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr.?”

 Notable Emails #14 (a) “Baptism for the dead is illogical and pretty much impossible to ever accomplish”

 Notable Emails Part 13 “Gileadi compares the Servant to Hezekiah, in that he answered for the temporal sins of the people and acted as a proxy savior”

 Notable Emails Part 12 “the scriptures will become corrupted and deceive the elect and give Satan power”

 Notable Emails Part 9 “My number one desire right now is to protect my wife and honor her tender feelings about the gospel as she understands it.”

 Notable Emails Part 8 “Who are the Jews and Gentiles?

Notable Emails Part 7 “My eyes have been opened”

Notable Emails Part 6: “Can anyone tell me anything about this blog?… This guy seems to have some new ideas I’ve never heard before using the scriptures to back his views.

Notable Emails Part 5: “the truths that both you and I hold so dear …are things that cannot be taught they can only be revealed.”

Notable Emails- Part 4 “I have now caught the spirit of watching along with you and others.”

Notable Emails- Part 3 “Have you ever read ‘Letter to a CES Director?’” Yes… and it has strengthened my testimony!

Notable Emails- Part 2: “Readers deserve to know if you truly are a heretic or just a faithful divergent thinker”

Notable Emails Part 1- Mormon Missionary: “I too am watching”

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