A few more recent emails-
Email from GM
Given that the church seems to be doing a relatively good job of missionary work and testifying of Christ, as the Gospel of Abraham seems to provide the priesthood keys for, is there some evidence in the scriptures that indicate why, or that indeed God would allow corrupt temple worship as a stumbling block in the church concurrent to it also fulfilling it’s authorized purpose during this dispensation? Did the ancient dispensation of Abraham include any form of temple worship?
Also, are you aware that symbols such as the compass and square, as well as Jewish symbols such as the menorah and oil lamp have been found in the same army corps of engineers diagram of a massive 40 acre plus structure dating to the Hopewell mound culture that was purportedly levelled by the corps? Is this just an elaborate hoax? Or indication of secret combinations of that time? Or indication of temple worship of that time?
Could temple worship be so sacred it is not plainly manifest in scripture? The Lord seemed to work in secret behind the veil with Joseph and Oliver and with the delayed publishing of sec 110. Are some things necessarily kept secret so the cunning one will not have an advantage such as saying silent prayers so they are not heard by him?
I don’t claim to have answers to any of these questions but am curious if they spark any fires or sound any echoes with your extensive searches of the scriptures?
With regards to my former email, i guess I hesitate to just throw temple worship out as nothing but an abomination. Although I see the points that have been raised against it, some of which I can totally relate to – it is an odd thing and seemingly incongruent with the simple plain truths of the gospel. My mother has always believed the church is true but has never liked the temple. I understand how the covenants therein could give one a false sense of their standing before God. But it can also serve to the more humble and honest of heart as a reminder and a vehicle towards obtaining and maintaining the things, both temporal and spiritual, necessary for salvation and the establishing of Zion.
“Given that the church seems to be doing a relatively good job of missionary work and testifying of Christ, as the Gospel of Abraham seems to provide the priesthood keys for..”
Actually, I am not convinced that the corporate church has the Abrahamic evangelical priesthood. I think they lost the fulness of the priesthood (Melchizedek priesthood) by December 5 1834 and they had the keys and offices pertaining to the evangelical priesthood taken away somewhere between September 1841 and the martyrdom in June of 1844 when the saints were rejected as a “church” with their dead. Once they were rejected as a church, they lost the keys of performing the full saving ordinances of the gospel.
In my opinion, they were a tribal kingdom with some form of Aaronic / Levitical priesthood. Joseph had re-established the ancient kingdom of Israel by that time which appears to be primarily under the leadership control of the tribe of Judah.
While I acknowledge that they have the priesthood commission to testify of the name of Christ and to promulgate the knowledge of the gospel by introducing people to the Book of Mormon and the words of Christ through the revelations that Christ brought forth, I am not convinced that they have the authority to administer the full saving ordinances. If they are authorized to baptize, it would be a preparatory baptism of some sort.
“.. is there some evidence in the scriptures that indicate why, or that indeed God would allow corrupt temple worship as a stumbling block in the church concurrent to it also fulfilling it’s authorized purpose during this dispensation? “
That is an interesting question which I would need to ponder (ponderize LOL) in order to provide a more complete response. A passage that comes to mind from the Book of Mormon is the one that speaks of the Jews looking beyond the mark. (keep in mind that I believe the LDS church represents a large remnant of the ancient kingdom of Judah and the leadership is composed primarily of descendants of Judah, or the Jews)
14 But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.
15 And now I, Jacob, am led on by the Spirit unto prophesying; for I perceive by the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that by the stumbling of the Jews they will reject the stone upon which they might build and have safe foundation. (Jacob)
Have the latter day saints not looked beyond the mark and added more to the simple gospel of Christ ?
A simplified characterization of why the restored church has gone into apostasy, is that instead of accepting the incredibly simple doctrine of Christ and the incredibly brief and succinct explanations of what the fulness of the gospel is, as provided in the Book of Mormon and modern revelation, they looked beyond the mark which resulted in many corrupted doctrines and ordinances and rituals.
In 1841 the Lord had told the saints that anything “more or less” than what had been given in the Book of Mormon and the 1835 D&C “cometh of evil”. (See D&C 124:119-120 ) Despite this warning, the saints rejected the law of the gospel in section 42 in favor of the spiritual wife form of polygamy and they embraced a masonic temple ordinance which cannot be justified in scripture. They were also talk false things about the nature and character of God that contradicted the scriptures.
The fulness of the gospel is faith and repentance followed by water baptism and being born of fire and the Holy Ghost and then enduring to the end which results in being called and chosen according to the voice of God out of heaven followed by the blessings of the second comforter….. Period. End of story. There is no need for aprons, handshakes, secret keywords, optional ways of killing someone, agreeing to Satans terms of being under his power if the candidate fails to obey every commandment ever mentioned is the four standard works, being received through the veil by the hand of an unknown person who could be Satan, etc., etc.
“Did the ancient dispensation of Abraham include any form of temple worship?”
I don’t know. Possibly. If so, certainly nothing like the masonic endowment of the corporate church.
“Also, are you aware that symbols such as the compass and square, as well as Jewish symbols such as the menorah and oil lamp have been found in the same army corps of engineers diagram of a massive 40 acre plus structure dating to the Hopewell mound culture that was purportedly levelled by the corps? Is this just an elaborate hoax? Or indication of secret combinations of that time? Or indication of temple worship of that time?”
As you know, the seed of Lehi became an apostate people. God withdrew his spirit from them. I hardly think that the degraded forms of worship they might have become involved in after their apostasy, that are not supported in the Book of Mormon, are worthy of modeling. It makes perfect sense that they also began practicing a degraded form of temple idolatry.
“Could temple worship be so sacred it is not plainly manifest in scripture?”
Why even have the scriptures and the plain words of Christ and his servants then? The gospel of Jesus Christ has been taught in plainness. When people fail to receive the simple gospel and associated spiritual rebirth, and begin replacing it with a false masonic ritual, the truth has been rejected.
“The Lord seemed to work in secret behind the veil with Joseph and Oliver and with the delayed publishing of sec 110. Are some things necessarily kept secret so the cunning one will not have an advantage such as saying silent prayers so they are not heard by him?”
However, the Lord put the saints on notice in 1829 that they would be turned over to Satan if they did not repent and reform… although they were blinded at the time that a dispensational bait and switch took place, they had been duly notified. It was their own actions that resulted in a partial blindness coming over then which allowed the secret switching over to the Abrahamic gospel. Ultimately, the Abrahamic gospel was both a blessing and a cursing.
I am only giving my opinions from my research. I hope you would never discard temple worship just because of the opinions of a heratic. As long as you have personal revelation to participate in it, that should suffice I would think.
Reply from GM
So was the Nauvoo temple rejected because of the masonic rituals? I’ve always had the idea that Satan is the great counterfeiter who corrupts the things of God and that is manifest in masonic ritual – a corruption and counterfeit of the true temple worship from the days of Solomon and possibly even earlier from the days of Adam. Is this another mormon myth or legend, nowhere supported by scripture?
To be honest my wife is more desirous of us being temple attenders, her patriarchal blessing mentions it, and I can’t deny it doesn’t hurt to be reminded of the importance of consecration and marital fidelity. That said, I dont want to be doing something satanic or offensive to God. Is it possible we can participate in something to be knowingly not sanctioned by God, and still be edified and not be adjudged adversely?
The Nauvoo Temple was never finished and hence it never needed to be rejected because it was never accepted.
In my opinion, God probably never even commanded the saints to build the Nauvoo Temple while the saints were in Nauvoo. If you read section 124 very very carefully with this topic in mind, you will find that the “house of the Lord” being spoken of throughout the narrative is always referring to the Nauvoo Boarding House of the Lord. The Nauvoo Temple was already under construction BEFORE section 124 was even given! During the Nauvoo era, all of the saints knew perfectly well that section 124 was not referring to the Nauvoo Temple. This is a perfect example of how the minds of the saints have become so darkened that over time, they forget the truth and are turned over to fables.
In 124 the Lord said that if the boarding house was not completed in the “sufficient time” allotted, the saints would be rejected AS A CHURCH with their dead. Joseph and the Twelve taught that both the temple and the boarding house both needed to be completed within the allotted period of time… neither of them were.
I have covered that topic elsewhere and don’t want to take the time to get into it right here.
The link below covers some of the info. Interestingly, my research shows that the saints used Section 97 as their justification for building the Nauvoo temple. The revelation requires the temple to be completed by a “tithed” (consecrated) people. Yet the saints did not consecrate in Nauvoo and hence were not qualified to build the temple in the land of Zion referred to in Section 97. The Nauvoo House revelation (section 124) came AFTER they had already started building the Nauvoo Temple.
It is my belief that the church was rejected not only because the house of the Lord was not completed, (see D&C 124: 31-32) but because they, as a church, collectively did not repent and because they allowed masonry and polygamy to be practiced among them along with other abominations.
If you and your wife were to make a radical decision to quit going to the temple before you both had an undeniable witness from personal revelation that you should, it could cause more problems than it would solve in that you would always be wondering if you did the right thing and you may feel guilty, etc.
God has a remedy for this awful situation that we are in. His is going to send his servants and the whole world is going to have the opportunity to repent and choose between working for money or working for Zion.
I share my research and opinions to spark thought and discussion and study and to drive people into deeper searching of the scriptures as the prepare for the dispensation of the fulness of times by preparing themselves to receive the fulness when it returns.
It would certainly be foolish to do ANYTHING simply because of my interpretations and opinions.
Email from MH
I think I may have missed your Pope video. Can you send it?
Also, I don’t believe the current LDS Church has ANY “authority” – especially BECAUSE they preach that the culmination of the Gospel is the Masonic Rituals. Also, they deliberately have shafted the JST of the Bible and they publish a much altered version of the Book of Mormon, changing many important aspects from the original 1830 version which WAS the most correct book on earth.
Like you, many Saints can’t stomach even belonging to the Babylonian Institution of Idolatry any longer.
Listening to Conference and hearing the pleading of Elder Ballard for us to stay in the old ship Zion is hard to hear. He is also spouting off a lot about how fallible the leaders are and to not judge them and that they are still the Lord’s servants that we must follow. Gag.
Anyway, I look forward to the next installment of the Secret History Video series…
I totally understand how you feel.
You are not without your reasons for feeling the way you do.
My contention, however, is that during the little season, the Lord wants the knowledge of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s attempt to gather and redeem Zion known to those with ears to hear. Hence his commission to the apostles when Joseph announced that something new must be done for the salvation of the church was valid then and must remain in force until the next dispensation begins.
Scripture informs us that when the new dispensation begins, the Lord will destroy the miserable wicked men who have the legal lease of the vineyard:
“And Jesus said unto them, When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will destroy those miserable, wicked men, and will let [lease] out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.”
This is why the first people to be visited by the true servants of the Lord when the times of the gentiles comes in again in the 3rd are those who ruled over the vineyard during the gospel of Abraham. These ruler are referred to in modern revelation as those that “sit in darkness”
“And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel; But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men. And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
After the fulness is rejected by those that sit in darkness, the servants will take the fulness to those gentiles that repent.
I believe God allows the corporate church to have some degree of priesthood because He also wanted his literal words that came out of Joseph Smith’s mouth to be available for those with ears to hear. It is up to each individual after hearing about these things to do their own searching and due diligence to find out about more accurate versions of the scriptures that Joseph brought forth. Ultimately, when the servants return, the intercessory atonement offering is going to be revealed in detail and will likely only be believed by those that have treasured up the word of God and taken the Holy Ghost as their guide.
“Who hath believed our report?”
The Old Testament documents the arrival of a prophet that would be different than any other prophet in that the literal words of Christ would come out of his mouth.
I cannot deny that those passages are referring to Joseph Smith and that modern revelation has created two canons of scripture distinctly different than the OT, NT and BofM.
Joseph Smith is the only prophet that literally spoke entire revelations, one right after another, consisting of the exact words of Jesus Christ, in fulfillment of the above prophecy. I don’t think those words of Christ coming forth through the mouth of Joseph Smith are insignificant and non-enduring in their import. For that reason God commissioned the apostate quorum of apostles to send forth the words of Christ despite the fact that the fulness had been temporarily removed from the earth for a little season.
This information had to be available to those who are seeking the truth. Who other than the corporate LDS church has brought them to the world? No other organization even comes close to the corporate church in bringing this information to the world.
I for one am the humble and grateful recipient of this knowledge of the gospel and the mission of Joseph Smith and the plan of redemption. Many others feel the same way. I suspect you do to. I cannot even begin to imagine where I might be in my spiritual journey for understanding about the mission of Christ and the fulness of the gospel without this information. Yet this would not have been possible if the apostate church had not fulfilled this most important commission.
Additionally, Christ prophesied about the significance of the knowledge of the gospel going forth to the House of Israel shortly after the gentile church would reject the fulness. This taking of the knowledge of the fulness was to continue up until the time that the gentiles repent. If that prophecy has come true in the manner I am suggesting, it gives huge relevance to the role of the corporate church.
For those reasons, I stand by my contention that the commission as given in section 118 continues to be valid to this very day.
The corporate LDS church, despite all of their problems, shortcomings, false doctrine and apostasy, is providing a starting point for people to search out the deeper things.
If you argue that the legal stewards of the preparatory gospel in the Lords vineyard are going to catch hell for the way they are administering their commission, you will get no argument from me, however, the scriptures seem clear to me that they hold that commission and are in fact playing an important role in promulgating the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as contained in the Book of Mormon and Modern revelation.
Here is one more thing to consider.
I have often said or at least implied that the Book of Mormon is very critical of the restored Gentile Church, ie, Mormon 8, 2 Nephi 28, etc. and that it says very little positive about the restored gentile church, however, that is probably not a totally fair and accurate declaration on my part. I had an ah-ha the other day when I was reading the following condemnation by God at the end of the 3 1/2 year period when the fulness was taken away.
Saviors of Men
“Verily, condemnation resteth upon you, who are appointed to lead my Chu[r]ch, and to be saviors of men: and also upon the church: And there must needs be a repentance and a refor[m]ation among you, in all things..”
After reading that passage for the bazzilionth time it occurred to me that I had heard the phrase “saviors of men” somewhere before, in addition to the obvious re-phrasing of the term “saviors on mount Zion”
So I did a keyword search. The key word search provided a second witness from D&C 103 that the early leaders of the church were called to be the “saviors of men”, note a few snippets from section 103.
VERILY I say unto you, my friends, behold, I will give unto you a revelation and commandment, that you may know how to act in the discharge of your duties concerning the salvation and redemption of your brethren, who have been scattered on the land of Zion;
2 Being driven and smitten by the hands of mine enemies, on whom I will pour out my wrath without measure in mine own time. For I have suffered them thus far, that they might fill up the measure of their iniquities, that their cup might be full;
This revelation is being directed specifically to Lyman Wight and Parley P. Pratt although much of it obviously applies to all of the first elders of the restored church. Notice how the Lord informs us that the Lords people will be “chastised” for a “little season” because they did not “hearken altogether unto the precepts and commandments which I gave unto them”
“And that those who call themselves after my name might be chastened for a little season with a sore and grievous chastisement, because they did not hearken altogether unto the precepts and commandments which I gave unto them.”
For they were set to be a light unto the world, and to be the saviors of men;
But verily I say unto you, I have decreed that your brethren which have been scattered shall return to the lands of their inheritances, and shall build up the waste places of Zion.
For after much tribulation, as I have said unto you in a former commandment, cometh the blessing.
Behold, this is the blessing which I have promised after your tribulations, and the tribulations of your brethren—your redemption, and the redemption of your brethren, even their restoration to the land of Zion, to be established, no more to be thrown down.
After giving an unconditional promise that the saints that got pushed out of the land of Zion will ultimately return after a period of tribulations, the Lord notes that during the interim, those that pollute their inheritances shall be “thrown down”.
Then the Lord explains how this miraculous event of restoring the Jackson County Saints to their inheritances will take place IN POWER:
Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.
And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.
Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.
But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.
Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun. is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.
The Lord then explains how Joseph will eventually gather the strength of the Lord’s house from the dead to redeem Zion.
Now then, doing keyword searches on the terms “savors of men” and “saviors on mount Zion” revealed to me that those that “publish peace” are those that are the saviors on mount zion that are the watchmen that lift up their voice and sing when the Lord redeems Zion after they awake and put on their strength. (see Isaiah 52 and D&C 113. This helped me realize that I had been misreading the following passage in the Book of Mormon and not getting the entire prophetic narrative.
“And blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they shall have the gift and the power of the Holy Ghost; and if they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb; and whoso shall publish peace, yea, tidings of great joy, how beautiful upon the mountains shall they be.” 1 Nephi 13:37
I had always assumed that the above passage was emphasizing the failure of Joseph Smith and the first laborers in the last kingdom to establish Zion, and then providing hope for them if they endure to the end. I did not catch that the end of the passage (that which is marked in red) was still on topic and was specifically identifying Joseph Smith and his brethren as being those that, despite failing in their first attempt at Zion, would return, and complete their missions and publish peace upon the mountains when the Lord redeems Zion.
The point I want to make is that the restored gentile church made an initial effort in attempting to establish Zion and then they stumbled, as prophesied in scripture. Following that, the Lord had the knowledge of the fulness of the gospel taken to the House of Israel for a little season, which, according to the allegory in Jacob, keeps the roots alive. During that little season that the knowledge of the fulness is taken to the House of Israel, the leaders of the House of Israel that rule of the vineyard have a priesthood commission to promulgate the knowledge of the gospel and testify of the name of Christ. This is a valid commission regardless of how faithful and accurate they are in fulfilling their commission. (keep in mind that when the commission was given, the Lord had acknowledged that the quorum of the Twelve was not even converted to the gospel yet!!! see D&C 112:13) . Finally, the repentant Gentiles from the 2nd watch and others of the gentiles living today, that repent, will publish peace (including additional scriptures) when the Lord finally establishes Zion.
So, even though you feel that corruption prevents the current church authorities from having ANY authority because they teach false doctrine and promote masonic rituals as the saving ordinances of the gospel, I would submit that God in his infinite mercy and foreknowledge has in fact allowed the unconverted apostles of the corrupt kingdom to play an important role and to have some degree of priesthood authority so that the words of Christ and the knowledge of the fulness of the gospel could go forth to the world and help in preparing the pure in heart for the return of the Lord and the establishment of Zion.
The video being referenced regarding the Pope is the latest one in the post before this newest on on the fourth installment of the secret history of Mormonism. In that video I take a few minutes to point some things out about the Popes most recent visit to the promised land.
Notable Emails #20 “I found your blog just about two months ago. What a revelation! I am alone in this search. Friends and family insist the leaders of the church will not lead us a stray. “
Notable Emails #19- “Sometime ago I had an extraordinary experience where I was forgiven of some of my sins”
Notable Emails #17 “Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.”
Notable Emails #15: “It would be so hard to do if we didn’t have the word crunching software available to us to use. Now I can see why so many are deceived. “
Notable Emails #14 (a) “Baptism for the dead is illogical and pretty much impossible to ever accomplish”
Notable Emails Part 13 “Gileadi compares the Servant to Hezekiah, in that he answered for the temporal sins of the people and acted as a proxy savior”
Notable Emails Part 12 “the scriptures will become corrupted and deceive the elect and give Satan power”
Notable Emails Part 9 “My number one desire right now is to protect my wife and honor her tender feelings about the gospel as she understands it.”
Notable Emails Part 6: “Can anyone tell me anything about this blog?… This guy seems to have some new ideas I’ve never heard before using the scriptures to back his views.
Notable Emails Part 5: “the truths that both you and I hold so dear …are things that cannot be taught they can only be revealed.”
Notable Emails- Part 3 “Have you ever read ‘Letter to a CES Director?’” Yes… and it has strengthened my testimony!
Notable Emails- Part 2: “Readers deserve to know if you truly are a heretic or just a faithful divergent thinker”
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