Miscellaneous Musings # 7 The Kinderhook Plates were Authentic

Praise God for people like this woman


 The Second Anointing

I got the following email from a reader of this blog the other day:

Thank you for your recent post. I love how you can pull the scriptures into modern scenarios like you did with Isa. 3:11-12.

I don’t support the whole Ordain Women movement.  However, if I were to, I’d approach it from a completely different angle to really force the Church to squirm.
I’d ask for equality in the priesthood.  However, I wouldn’t ask that the church change it’s policy to ordain women.  I’d ask the church to make it’s 2nd anointing more accessible.  Because it’s there where the women are ordained and given the privilege to lay their hands on their husbands and pronounce blessings.
I would make it an issue of equal access.  This would bring to light something that many members don’t know about and it would put the church in an tight spot about hiding or granting this to only a select few.”
This was my response, although I have modified it a little upon further reflection:

“Very interesting thoughts, XXXX.

I think your idea is brilliant and may have some potential. (of course women already have the right to lay their hands upon people and give them blessings IMO)

Nevertheless, the anointing/ordination is an interesting idea.

A long time ago I acquired, through the Mormon underground, a listing of all of the men and their wives in the last century, that had been called in by the First Presidency and received their 2nd anointing (2nd endowment) along with some interesting related information about when the practice stopped.

In the document, it had the suggestion from a GA who petitioned the first presidency to begin the practice again after it had become a dormant practice for many years.

For years they stopped the practice… then they recently began doing it again and of course, it eventually blew up in their face with the guy (that now runs Mormonthink) that became angry when he and his wife did not have the experience they were anticipating.

I have noticed that some people seem to use the terms “second endowment” and “second anointing” interchangeably.. generally, however, I think the second anointing is a blessing (earthly ordinance typically performed by the president of the Church) with a promise of exaltation, while the 2nd endowment is usually associated with getting one’s calling and election from a personal appearance from the Savior.

(Had the brethren given the second anointing to the Mormonthink guy, with a clear and proper explanation of what he was getting, instead of having him anticipate the second endowment and a personal audience from the Savior, perhaps the whole thing would not have blown up in their face and he would still be a member in good standing today.)

Again, if your idea is to have them ramp up the physical earthly ordinance of second anointing from the President of the Church, for the purposes of giving women a priesthood ordination, it is intriguing. It would certainly increase loyalty and passion on the part of those receiving the ordinance as well as an increased effort by those seeking the ordination, not to mention, alleviating the pressure from the ordain women movement, to have the priesthood ordination. Your idea could be a stroke of genius. ( I may bring this idea up to Tom Monson in my next visit with him!)

It would need to be the second anointing instead of the promise of the second endowment to avoid generating disappointment from a heavenly “no show”, such as was experienced by the Mormonthink guy.

Another danger, of course, is that if the calling of the candidates is not conducted on a very high level of inspiration, it could back fire in several different ways and create doubt about the inspiration being employed by the President of the Church.

Also, since the First Presidency does not receive the level of revelation that Joseph received, and they do not receive “thus sayeth the Lord” revelations, and since they don’t know most members of the church at the local level, they would need to rely heavily on recommendations from local bishops and Stake Presidents.

This would probably necessitate the categorical bestowal of the second anointing on every Stake President and Bishop since it would make little sense to give the stewardship of choosing worthy candidates for the second anointing, to someone who is themselves, is not yet worthy. This is of course problematic, since there is no doubt a few Stake Presidents and Bishops that are thiefs, rapists and murderers, etc. LOL (just kidding… sort of)”



Strangers in Zion



This same person that sent that email, also sent me the following link regarding a movement to support Kate Kelley:





After reviewing the email, this was my response, again with a few minor changes upon further reflection:

“Thank you for the link.. very interesting. 

It seems kind of cheesy and presumptuous to encourage people to give up their memberships in support of another person’s issues with priesthood ordianation… it assumes that others also don’t value their memberships very much.. but then, that is probably indicative of the demographic they are addressing…  to me it seems that the only takers, if any, would be disaffected people that seldom if ever go to church and do not desire active membership and don’t pay their tithing, hence, very little collateral damage to the church.


I noticed that the website has a feature that enables a person to find out who their local bishop is. That would indicate that they are largely targeting inactive and disaffected members.


It actually might be a blessing to the church, to cut these people off from the membership records. By getting rid of all of the angry, inactive, critical members that are conducting their criticisms under the cloak of “member in good standing”, the church would be less adversely affected in the court of public opinion and become more strengthened, in my opinion.


The other problem with the concept is that it is encouraging people just like John and Kate to proactively ask for courts and give up membership, when  in fact John and Kate were fighting to maintain membership… seems counter-intuitive to me.

Letter to a CES Director


I am working on a book that may or may not be published in my life time. In one of the chapters I am going to review the issues in Jeremy Runnells letter to a CES Director. I am doing this not only because I think someone needs to provide some answers for those that are truly seeking them, but because it is a great platform for highlighting some principles regarding Biblical Christianity that many Mormons and Protestants are unaware of.

I plan on presenting a pie chart divided into three categories that his listing of troubling issues fall into.

Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm

One category has to do with science related issues. I will show that God has given a very strict set of parameters by which to judge truth, and science does not happen to be one of them. Indeed, the Lord places a cursing upon those that base their spiritual faith in God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in empirical evidence and the worldly learning of men, and modern science, which has become God to many people.

Your rulers, and the seers hath he covered because of your iniquity.

A second category in the pie chart will have to do mainly with morality issues, false doctrines and false spiritual gifts that Joseph Smith and others were accused of displaying. All of these are explained by the prophecy embedded within the atonement statute.

Legitimate Questions

All other issues listed in Jeremy’s Letter to a CES Director would fall into a third category that I consider to be legitimate questions that need to be researched.

All of these faith challenging questions have faith promoting answers in my opinion, if researched under the influence of the spirit. I will cover these answers in my book.

Critical thinking that rests upon the foundation of faith, while seeking the Holy Spirit as one’s guide, is an important part of Gospel study. That is why I appreciate thoughtful people like Jeremy and the Tanners. There is nothing wrong with asking questions and challenging people to respond with answers.

IMO, people like Jeremy and the Tanners play an important role in this mortal probationary test. Nevertheless, IMO they will very possibly never find any answer to their questions very acceptable because they have made their decision and they have a lot invested in their stance. This saddens me.

I Believe the Kinderhook Plates are Authentic

One of the issues Jeremy brought up in the Letter is the Kinderhook controversy which I assume everyone that reads this blog, knows about.

While pondering which category the Kinderhook fabrication should go into on the pie chart, it occurred to me that a few months ago I would have had to deliberate on which of the first two categories I have listed, would have been the most appropriate, since it involves scientific analysis and also appears to put into question Joseph’s ability as a prophet and seer.

However, my opinion has greatly changed since then. I would now put it in the third category.

I think the response to this issue has now been addressed pretty well.

Let me explain-

While visiting Nauvoo a few months ago, I had an amazing epiphany about the controversial Kinderhook Plates.

First of all, let me admit that I had never done any previous serious research regarding the supposed Kinderhook fabrication, which, at face value, seemed to show that Joseph Smith was fooled by an unscrupulous forger.

It is unclear who forged the plates. They were supposedly found by a merchant by the name of Robert Wiley who was inspired to look for them because of a dream..

The reason I had bought into the traditional storyline that Joseph Smith had been fooled by a fabricated ancient artifact, is because the prophetic “atonement statute” narrative and the Book of Mormon version of Isaiah 29:10  testifies of and allows for the fact that Joseph had his eyes covered on several things during the last part of his ministry and very possibly produced multiple false revelations..

I have made my beliefs clear regarding the false revelation on the spiritual wife doctrine and some of the content in the king follett discourse…. hence, I was at peace on the issue, having simply assumed that Joseph had been fooled regarding the Kinderhook plates.

That all changed after my visit to Nauvoo.

After visiting the site which I believe to be the ancient city of Zarahemla, directly across the river from Nauvoo, I became aware of several ancient burial mounds located in or just north of Nauvoo City proper, which I visited.

It was fun to realize that Nauvoo was located smack dab in the middle-diddle of some pretty amazing ancient historic Book of Mormon sites.

For many years, while I have been pondering and writing about the historical and prophetic significance of Nauvoo, I had been unaware that the general geographical area had huge historical significance with regard to the Book of Mormon peoples. I had already determined that Kirtland did, and I had speculated about Zarahemla in my 1992 booklet, but, beyond the possibility of Zarahemla, I was unaware that any burial mounds with ancient artifacts had been discovered close to Nauvoo.

While pondering these things during my stay there, and reading a few books that I obtained, I became aware of another thing I had not been aware of.

It turns out that the area of Kinderhook, in Pike County Illinous, which is also quite close to Nauvoo, has a proven history of having ancient artifacts. I had not previously realized that. I simply thought the guy that brought the plates to Joseph lived in a geographical location that had no history of ancient artifacts.

Furthermore, Kinderhook is not all that far from where the Joseph had discovered the remains of the white Lamanite warrior named “Zelph” was located.

It was amazing to realize how rich the general area is in producing evidence of ancient Book of Mormon related civilizations.

  • Ancient city and temple site of Zerehemla across the river from Nauvoo
  • Ancient burial mounds north of Nauvoo
  • Kinderhook plates and other artifacts discovered just south of Nauvoo
  • The remains of the warrior Zelph

All of this information began to substantiate in my mind, the possibility that perhaps Joseph was not fooled by a forgery..

While pondering all of these things, a very strong impression came upon me which basically said, “The plates were authentic….Joseph’s claims about the content of the artifacts were accurate.”

This was really quite an exhilarating thought that I wanted to blurb about in this blog diary of random musings, but I realized that those factors that I had become aware of, and the impression I had had, would be less than compelling to other people, so, I simply shelved the impression.

Shortly after getting back from my trip I got an email from an Aussie friend of mine who sent a link to a recent presentation given by Wayne May which absolutely blew my  mind and provided a second witness to the impressions I have had.

In the presentation, Wayne May provides what I consider to be compelling proof that the Kinderhook Plates were not a forgery.


wayne may kinderhook

You can click on the above graphic to see the entire presentation on youtube.

The Kinderhook part of the presentation starts at about 48:30 and goes to 100:40. I would start a little earlier, at about 43:00. Better yet, watch the entire presentation.. it is fabulous.

He gets into some pretty thought provoking stuff about Ham, the priesthood, the Jaradites, etc. Be prepared to have a paradigm change on a few doctrinal issues.


[One last thing.. those of you who have prayed for Jade have made a huge impact in her life. The Lord has heard your prayers and the prayers of her family and loved ones and she has been blessed. They asked me to thank all of you that prayed for her. Her last surgery went well and she is progressing.

On a similar note, the guy that shared this information with me about Wayne May’s presentation has been suffering with severe migraine headaches for over 20 days in a row and has had a cat scan that does not indicate what the problem is.

Please join with me in praying for him. My personal belief is that old scratch is trying to silence him because he is a very gifted, knowledgeable, follower of Christ who has made a positive impact in people’s lives by sharing his knowledge and testimony of the Gospel.

Please take a minute the second you get through reading this, and join with me in praying for this humble man….. THANK YOU!]


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