His Next Response
I can easily understand how the word Lucifer got into the King James
Bible. After all the KJ Bible is a translation of a translation.
What I can’t understand is how all of these known errors associated with the 1776 KJ Bible got into the Book of Mormon. When you read the accounts of the translation process it doesn’t make sense. Unless of course they were taken straight out of the KJ Bible in the first
It doesn’t surprise me that keyword searches produce so many parallels between the restoration and the Bible. I mean Joseph, Sidney, and many others knew the Bible inside and out. It was a
foundation for all of their work. Not only is there a ton of direct quotes from the Bible in the Book of Mormon, but the parallels between many of the stories are striking. Joseph uses a mix of bible quotes and language all throughout Doctrine and Covenants.
I guess my point is as a member of the Church when your eyes are opened to the issues you initially want to hold on to the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. It is a pattern I see all the time. It is what happened to me and why I found your Blog so comforting.
Then however when you take an in depth look at the foundational issues as well as problems the Book of Mormon faces, I think you have to come to terms with the possible situation. I did start my Journey into the LDS Church based on feelings I got when I prayed. However I prayed about a book I knew nothing about aside from reading things in it that were taken straight
out of the Bible.
The same goes for Joseph Smith. In the new Testament the way Jesus tells us to Judge a Prophet is by his fruits which are his doctrine and Prophecies. When I prayed about him I for
sure wasn’t presented with an accurate picture of any of it.
One of the most confusing things I have heard you say is that no matter if the Papyri are proven to contain nothing about Abraham, you still believe in it because the book stands on its own. I don’t feel faith is believing in something that you can prove is false beyond a shadow
of a doubt. The papyri are not what Joseph said they were.
Sure there is some doctrine in the book of Abraham that you probably feel makes sense. That is the danger of all of the restoration. It was created to make sense, to answer questions that hadn’t been answered. It doesn’t make it the right answer though. You have said before that
people of different religions have a different spirit that you can feel with them. I think that the spirit that I felt witness to me about the Book of Mormon was not the Holy Ghost. I honestly feel like it was Satan, and God allowed that because I took the wrong
approach to finding truth.
Feelings aren’t an accurate way to discern truth. I spent some time in the middle east when I was in the Air Force. Those Muslims that I was around felt strong feelings too. Strong enough to give their life for, yet I don’t feel it was from God. Just like the accounts of the first vision. When I take an in depth look at those along with what the 1830 edition of the Book of
Mormon said and the JST of the Bible, I can see that he believed in one God at the time. His view on that evolved over time just like most of his doctrine.
I told you before I had major issues with the way he changed the revelations from the Book of Commandments to the Doctrine and Covenants. On the one hand you use patterns and logic to prove things, but in regards to the changing of the revelations you said that God doesn’t think like we think. Which I agree, but the deeper I dig into the historical context of his environment, his magical world view, and the crisis he was facing with people leaving left and right, I can’t help but see a major deception.
I hope this doesn’t offend you, but I have come to the Conclusion that he was never a Prophet to begin with.
Hey it does not offend me at all. You bring up some great points . I believe you are going through the refiners fire like all of us. I totally understand where you are coming from.
I think there is a very important place for critical thinking in religion. In fact, there is not enough critical thinking in the early stages of a person’s conversion to the gospel, in my opinion.
BTW I posted our previous responses in a post because I think the issues being discussed are really important. Of course, I did not reveal your name. I hope that is ok with you…
I am leaving for a while but when I get back I will re-read this last email and see if I have a response for you. In fact, I am definitely going to have a long detailed response to your comments above as well as the comments you have since sent to me in an email. I plan on posting part three of this series AFTER I finish the current series I am in.
Although I completely disagree with your current findings, I TOTALLY RESPECT YOU after hearing why your have doubt.
In fact, I respect you much more than I respect mindless members of the church that never ask questions, because you have a true desire to get to the truth at all costs and that is what I call integrity. If we don’t have integrity, we don’t have anything worthwhile. Membership in the church cannot save people that are void of personal integrity.
“Feelings aren’t an accurate way to discern truth.“
This may surprise you, but I actually agree with that statement although I would modify it a little bit. “feelings without critical thinking, research, knowledge of the facts, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit aren’t an accurate way to discern truth“
I have blogged about this before. God speaks to people in their HEART and in their MIND. Those that only use one of those organs to think, will be deceived. The Inspired Version of the Bible informs us that the heart is an intelligent, thinking organ with a mind of its own. Modern Revelation informs us that God speaks to us through BOTH our mind (brain) and our heart if we are in tune.
People who go 100% of feelings, in my opinion have a 100% chance of being deceived… period.
Human feelings are a completely unreliable way to discern truth.
However, I believe the opposite is true also.
Those that do not allow the Holy Ghost to influence their research and feelings while searching out the facts, and only allow the intellect of the natural mind of the natural man to sort things out also have 100% chance of being deceived, in my opinion.
“I think that the spirit that I felt witness to me about the Book of Mormon was not the Holy Ghost. I honestly feel like it was Satan, and God allowed that because I took the wrong approach to finding truth.“
That statement is probably going to shock a few people.
Frankly, I think you are probably correct. However, I suspect that most of us were initially converted by scratch. I will expound on this when I resume this series having to do with your observations and concerns.
Anyway, I enjoy communicating with people who doubt because they have the personal integrity to search things out, much more than I enjoy communicating with those in the church that are spiritually and intellectually brain-dead and don’t have the personal integrity to question anything… so don’t consider me to be your enemy just because we don’t see eye to eye.
Again, I plan on returning to address why the other issues you have brought up do not bother me anymore and I appreciate you engaging me in these very important topics.