A Spirit-filled Reading of CONTENT and CONTEXT is all that Matters in Mystical Christianity

For those engage in and waiting for the final installment of the current series I apologize for the fact that it may be a while before I get it posted. It is turning into a book of its own and my unruly mind keeps wandering.

When I do post, it may be in multiple parts.

From time to time I get into discussions with people on email that may be beneficial or at least thought provoking to other readers and therefore I post them. I just got one recently that I thought perhaps I should post (I have made a few minor changes to provide greater clarification):

The first email I got from him

“Watcher,

I came across the following article concerning the word Lucifer and
the implications it has for the Church.  Have you ever heard this
before?

The word “Lucifer” in Isaiah 14:12 presents a minor problem to
mainstream Christianity. It becomes a much larger problem to Bible
literalists, and becomes a huge obstacle for the claims of Mormonism
John J. Robinson in A Pilgrim’s Path, pp. 47-48 explains:

“Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old
Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else:

“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art
thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”

The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find
its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman
language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of
the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who
fell to become the ruler of hell?”

[the rest of the article can be read here http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml ]

My First Response to his email

Interesting article… thanks for sending it.

I don’t find it compelling at all.
 It is commonly known that ancient texts in the apocrypha and other ancient texts differentiate Satan and Lucifer as two separate and distinct individuals. That is not a problem for me nor is the one being proposed in the article. The bottom-line for me is whether the cumulative messages and evidence of the restoration along with the witness of the spirit has validated Joseph’s mission to be true. Once it has, arguments like the one in the article become so insignificant to me that I can’t even justify my time digging in to determine where they went wrong in their conclusions.
Frankly, there are bigger problems with Isaiah. Many scholars believe that the Book of Isaiah was not written by just one person. They have great sounding reasons for their findings but I remain unimpressed because I have searched all of the words of Isaiah against the other scriptures and the spirit and I believe the entire book was indeed written by Isaiah.
“Deutero-Isaiah (chapters 40–55), the work of an anonymous 6th-century author writing during the Exile; and Trito-Isaiah (chapters 56–66), composed after the return from exile.[5] While one part of the consensus still holds – virtually no one maintains that the entire book, or even most of it, was written by one person”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah
My point is that there are countless studies and articles that are written to challenge the faith of Christians and Mormons. My feeling is that someone struggling to gain a witness of modern revelation might struggle with the contention of the article but once one knows that the LDS restoration movement is true, then the contrary findings of intellectuals and scholars becomes insignificant.
Backing out the spiritual witness, the evidence that supports the truthfulness of section 76 is overwhelming in favor of it and I therefore accept that Lucifer and Satan are the same being. I believe that the JST was inspired and if JS did not find Isaiah 14 wanting, and if the Book of Mormon prophets find it acceptable then I have no problem with it.
It is certainly possible that much of the information provided about the historicity of the content in Isaiah 14, provided in the article you sent, is accurate, but typological, to a larger narrative and therefore, still an accurate narrative for Satan getting cast out of heaven.
Thanks again for the heads up
Watcher

His Next Response by Email

Watcher,

Thanks for the reply.

To me the thing that is troubling is not if Isiah Ch 14 is actually about Satan or not. It is the word Lucifer itself. The word Lucifer isn’t in the original Hebrew text.  It’s part of a language that did not exist yet.

If the Book of Mormon is really an ancient text it should read like Isaiah does in the ESV Bible. The ESV Bible is a more word for word translation.  It doesn’t include the word Lucifer because that word was never in the original text. It just seems to be another one of the many errors that exist in the King James Version of the Bible that some how found their way into the Book of Mormon.  I have read many excuses for this, but none of them have any substance.

My next response to him

How many times have you read section 76 and really pondered and prayed about it?

Does the dilemma that the word Lucifer is not part of the original Hebrew text in Isaiah 14 or in the repeat in the Book of Mormon negate the miraculous light contained in section 76 and in the Book of Mormon? If not, doesn’t Section 76 and the book of Mormon validate Isaiah 14?
Does Section 76 become a false revelation because you can’t figure out how the word Lucifer became part of the Isaiah text?

Have you ever taken the time to do an extensive keyword search on Section 76 to see how the context matches up with the four standard works? Are you aware that the concepts about different degrees of glory revealed in section 76 are not unique even though they appear to be? They in fact show up in the book of revelation, (as does the same scenario of Satan being cast out of heaven.)
I would suggest that if you obtained a spiritual conversion to the contextual truthfulness of section 76, the apparent intellectual dilemma in Isaiah 14 will become irrelevant. On the other hand, if you feel that the Christian scriptural texts (and Mormon scriptural texts) must conform to intellectual scrutiny, the Christian religion will become a mass of confusion and ultimately, old Scratch will chew you up and spit you out.
My point is, that in my opinion, the true evidence to be considered in a mystical religion such as Christianity is found in CONTENT and CONTEXT, confirmed by the Holy Ghost, not in approaching it from finding evidence to justify it based on a skeptical intellectual basis. There are countless intellectual technicalities and apparent discrepancies that one can spend a lifetime trying to reconcile if one approaches the mystical religion of Christianity as an intellectual skeptic. This is why I find LDS and Christian apologetics to be largely a waste of time.
 How come you don’t have heartburn over the validity of the  Book of Mormon since it contains the French word “adieu”. Where in the world did the word adieu come from?
On my ChiefInspector blog I identify 12 contextual declarations that God made in modern scripture BEFORE the church was even restored. The 12th declaration had to do with the very narrow parameter that God has given us by which truth is discerned.
March 1829 Section 5 Belief in God’s words is the only parameter upon which salvation is based “Whosoever believeth on my words, them will I visit with the manifestation of my spirit; and they shall be born of me, even of the water and of the Spirit… and the testimony of three witnesses will I send forth of my word… and their testimony shall also go forth unto the condemnation of this generation if they harden their hearts against me.”
12a See forthcoming post on how Biblical Christianity is a faith based religion and how according to the word of God, the reliance of science and the learning and wisdom of mortal man places a curse upon a person
The two great commandments that are linked to the objective of not being deceived are to treasure up the word of God and to take the Holy Ghost as ones guide. While keyword search technology can only facilitate in the human endeavor of reading, studying, searching and treasuring up God’ s word, there is no technological help or substitute for being inspired from heaven”.
I believe God had intentionally put lots of intellectual stumbling blocks in the road for those that allow themselves to get sidetracked from the promptings of the Holy Ghost. That is a great snare.
It is interesting that you bring the topic of Lucifer and his fall from heaven at this time because it intersects with the study I am currently doing in the Snuffer series. I am going to suggest something in the next installment about the timing and significance of Lucifer’s fall from heaven that is going to blow peoples minds.It will will show contextually, just how significant the doctrine of Satan’s fall really is with regard to the LDS restoration movement and the prophetic words of Daniel and the ending of the “Daily Sacrifice”. (BTW, if you want to have heartburn over biblical words, the word “Sacrifice” which is in italic, is not a direct translation from the original text, it is simply added by the translators for clarification, based on what they think the concept is referring to. Given the fact that biblical prophecy scholars have never correctly explained what the “daily sacrifice” is, as used by Daniel, one has to wonder how inspired the translators were, if one is an intellectual skeptic.  The literal translation should simply read “The Daily”)
Anyway, I suspect that if you will Google this topic regarding Isaiah 14, you will find a Christian scholar that has had the same heartburn you are having over this issue and who has found peace in their search regarding this one issue.
The following article might be a good place for you to start, HOWEVER, I think you are approaching religion in a very problematic way, because as long as you continue to look for intellectual, scholarly justification for everything in God’s holy word, there will always be a new issue to create consternation in your life. I suggest that you approach Christ, his mystical WORD and his mystical atonement based on the mystical context of what is being revealed in scripture and let go of the technicalities. Life is too short to spend it trying to prove everything to the satisfaction of the natural mortal mind.
Some Bible critics get a bee in their bonnets about the translation Lucifer and they claim this is merely a Latin word, and they ask why does the King James Bible have a Latin translation in it.  This is a really silly objection if you think about it.  In 382 A.D. Jerome translated  from the Hebrew into Latin and he believed Lucifer (bearing light) was the best translation to depict who this entity was that wanted to be like God and fell from heaven.   In 425 the Latin Vulgate did the same and later on the Latin Clementine version did likewise.  The 2005 electronic edition of the Latin Clementine reads this way: “Quomodo cecidisti de cælo, Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris?”  You can see this Latin translation online here – http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/html/index.html
Numerous other Bible translators agree.  If you begin to criticize the Latin, you get yourself into all kinds of problems.  Numerous words found in the English language come directly from Latin.  In the Bible we get such words as justice = Latin iustitiam; sacrifice = sarificium; cross = crucem; saint= sancti; and revelation = revelationis, to name but a very few.  Yet not one of these English words looks anything remotely like the literal Hebrew and Greek words in the texts from which we get our English translations.  The Latin gave us many good words that eventually were carried over into English.The Greek Septuagint and Modern Greek TodayIt is also highly significant that the so called Greek Septuagint (LXX) also agrees with the reading of Lucifer.  In the common copy of what is know as the Greek Septuagint, the Isaiah passage reads: πως επεσεν εκ του ουρανου, ο Εωσφορε” and the English translation is “How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven.” There are also at least three English translations of the Septuagint or Siniaticus copies, and all three of them translate it as Lucifer. The Septuagint online English translation can be see here- http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Esaias/index.htm
where it says:  “How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven!” In addition to this there are The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by A.C. Muses, and the 2009 Old Testament According to the Septuagint.  Then there is the modern Greek meaning of the word Εωσφορε.  I have in my study a modern day Greek-English dictionary. It is called Divry’s Modern English-Greek and Greek-English Desk Dictionary, published by D. C. Divry, Inc. Publishers New York 1974.  If you look under the English Lucifer page 182 you get Εωσφορε, and if you look up the word Εωσφορε on page 523 (the same Greek word found in all copies of the Greek Septuagint) you get the English word Lucifer

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10 Responses to A Spirit-filled Reading of CONTENT and CONTEXT is all that Matters in Mystical Christianity

  1. Ryan says:

    Interesting. However I’m more interested in the three degrees of glory found in the book of revelations.

    Care to elaborate? Maybe a chapter for me to go and discover it on my own?

  2. Ryan

    Give me a day or two to locate which blog I covered that in.. 🙂 BTW I noticed that Chuck Missler danced around the topic of the differing degrees of salvation in one of his lectures.. He noted that we don’t earn salvation but the 24 elders did earn their crowns, etc. quite interesting.. but that is not what I am referring to, I believe the BofR clearly distinguishes between the differing degrees of glory, etc.

  3. Ryan says:

    Thanks.

  4. Ok Ryan

    Read chapters 20, 21 and 22 in the Book of Revelation to see if you can see narratives depicting multiple classifications of souls that match up perfectly with those that are described in section 76.

    After doing so, read this article and see if any of your conclusions overlap with mine.

    https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/sealing-up-the-testimony-part-six-the-new-testament-testifies-of-section-76/

    It has been a long time since I wrote the article so I need to probably re-read it and make sure I still agree with my own interpretive conclusions, but I think the general concept is valid and will adequate in making the point.

    Be sure to do your own research and come to your own conclusions first without allowing my article to bias your own initial interpretations, a failure to do so could result in the growth of a huge wart on your noggin!

  5. Ryan says:

    Very nice. Another series to read. I feel like this is Watcher University.

    I read the chapters this morning and nothin stood out until I read Rev 22:11 where it spoke about being filthy, righteous and holy. I thought to myself this must be the distinction.

    I then started to read your post and I was right. However I have to say that without the guidance I don’t think I would have discovered that.

    Great job comparing the words of each with section 76. That’s simply brilliant. Wow, there is so much to uncover.

  6. Wow, there is so much to uncover

    Ryan, that observation of yours is profound and is going to be one of the major themes of mine when I continue with my discussion with my friend that sent me the emails. Almost everytime I open the scriptures I find another connection that blows me away.

    If I understand him correctly, he feels that Joseph and Sidney were so well read in the scriptures, and so creative, yet deceitful, that they are the ones the created the mind-blowing layers of interconnections between the BofM and the D&C and the Bible. Those that are beginning to see the intricately interwoven mind-blowing connections that we are just now beginning to uncover, using word crunching technology, (and the spirit 🙂 ), 160 years after the fact, can easily see that the scriptures that JS brought forth are light-years beyond human innovation. We are not just speaking about making connections between doctrinal truths, we are talking about taking undeveloped concepts from the old and new testament and explaining them and expounding on them several layers down, within the BofM and the D&C.

    If Joseph and Sidney were dishonest deceivers and charlatans that had the ability to cryptically interconnect deep doctrines down infinite levels within the scriptures, why did they leave 90% of the magnificent connections hidden, to be discovered four generations later?

    If these were Godless hypocrites that were deceiving people for money and fame, why didn’t they bring these magnificent connections to light, to further their deception and add to their fortune and fame?

    Clearly they would have to have not believed in God or a coming judgment to do what they did… so why go to their graves with these secret innovations still hidden? why not capitalize on the amazing connections that were being created instead of leaving them for future generations to dig up?

    The truth is that Joseph and Sidney did not have the capacity to create what we are currently bringing to light. A hundred of the worlds brightest biblical scholars could not have created this stuff if they had been given 50 years to do it and state of the art technology to try and do it with.

    Those that begin to see what you and others are seeing, realize that the work was being directed by a higher intelligence, not by mortal man.

    Joseph and Sidney were pawn on a chessboard being moved around by a higher intelligence.

    The connections you just discovered between Section 76 and the Book of Revelation is just one example of hundreds, if not thousand of interconnections that have not even been detected by most scholars.

    The next natural step that many doubters arrive at once they begin to realize that this was beyond Joseph and Sidney, is that Satan was directing the work… eventually they will loose faith in the reality of God and Satan and will reject the Bible and will be left in darkness and yet, that leaves them without a viable explanation as to where the amazing content came from.

    I am speaking generally about the trend I have noticed with many of the angry and dark people that I see on the ex-Mormon forums… I am not speaking about the person that sent me the emails.

    I have all sorts of hope for him and many others that are still working through these issues. I think there are lots of people that are struggling with issues but they also recognize the light coming from the restoration movement and that is why they doubt their doubts.

    Anyone that reads this blog has clearly not completely closed the door. They still have at least a glimmer of hope and are still open to giving an honest ear to other possibilities.

  7. Ryan says:

    It’s funny because I found this blog not because I was angry at the Church or even thought it could be in apostasy.

    I was looking for deeper doctrine to explore because I was frustrated with Sunday School and Elder’s Quorum.

    With that I discovered more than I was looking for. It’s been a good journey.

  8. One of the extremely difficult things for me is the fact that I have quite a diverse audience which includes everything from hardcore skeptics looking for answers, to mainstream church members interested in the deeper doctrines that are highly bored with the milk given by the corporate church, to LDS scholars looking for interesting topics they can write an article on, to LDS authors that want to make money off of controversial books on church doctrine and church history, etc.

    I kind of feel bad about exposing my entire audience to the horrifically dark content contained in the “content and context” series because there could be some casualties along the way. Mrs Watcher let me know that she questions my judgment in doing so. It may be that I should have kept my communication private with that fellow. It is just that I think there are so many people out there that are dealing with the same issues and I felt like maybe what I am getting ready to say in the last post of that series needs to be heard by lots of people.

    From time to time I will peruse one of the EXMO sites to see what the latest buzz is. I feel so much pain for those people because many of them are salt of the earth people who have become angry and bitter and full of darkness because they have found out that they have been lied to by the church. Yet I believe many of them would accept the truth if they could let go of their doubts and begin searching the content and context of the revelations Joseph Smith brought forth.

    I want so much to take those people by the and lead them them through the veil of unbelief (metaphorically speaking) and show them what I have found deep deep down in the word of God.

    In the parable of the 99 and 1 I have often wondered how wise it was of the Shepard to leave the 99 and go after the one.

    Isn’t that putting the 99 at risk?

    I hope I have not put any of the 99 in danger by opening such a dark topic.. yet, I hope that I can turn my email friend or someone else toward the light by sharing what I am about to share in the last part of the series..

    Anyway, the darkness does not appear to have phased you.

    I had to laugh at your response to the first part of the series…. it was something like… “interesting. but what I am interested is, where does it talk about the section 76 stuff in the Book of Revelation” LOL

    People who are used to diving for silver dollars in the deep end of the pool really don’t have any interest in going to the shallow end of the pool to dive for pennies… LOL

  9. Ryan says:

    LOL. So true.

    There’s a spirit about everything. I try to take it as my guide. I fall short more times than not.

    For this particular post as soon as I read it, I felt that it was a wild goose chase trying to figure out the first cause or first mention of the word Lucifer. I noted it down and that was it.

    But there was a nugget hidden there and that’s what I bit into.

    I do have to say that my eyes have been opened by reading and pondering this blog. I too am now watching, praying and waiting.

    I can’t believe how blind I was to so much. Not blind as in being deceived but blind as to just missing the pieces so clear and right in front of me.

    I finished the Harbinger today. I don’t know what to say other than OMGosh!! God’s word is AMAZING!! The timing of it all is unphathomable.

    I remember you had did a post on Daniel and the timing of things. This books touches on timing and precision of events in accordance to God’s word.

    I am now looking for something to happen around Sept. 11, 2015.

    I’ll post something soon in the comments section for all under the Jonathan Kahn post you did a while back.

  10. That would be great. I would love to hear what you learned from reading the book.

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