Revelation 20 part one

The Anarchist recently responded to a discussion we had some time back when I asked him to state whether he believed that the right hand, left hand judgment mentioned in D&C 29:26-27 took place before or after the paradisaical millennium.

He has made the following declaration,

“D&C 29: 12-21 refers to PRE-MILLENNIUM events, while D&C 29: 22-28 refers to POST-MILLENNIUM events. Search the footnote references to the verses for more scriptures on these two periods of time. For example, Rev. 20: 7-15 refers to the same events as D&C 29: 22-28.,”

It appears his main reason for believing that the right hand- left hand judgment mentioned in D&C 29 is based on the “white throne judgment” mentioned in Revelation 20.

This provides us with a great opportunity to drill down into Revelation 20 and see if it really does prove that section 29:26-27 takes place after the millennium.

First we shall review what it says in those passages,

Secondly, we will review several of the scriptures that demonstrate that verse 7-10 are referring to an event that takes place after the paradisaical millennium which has nothing to do with the right hand left hand event in section 29 which takes place prior to the paradisaical millennium..  In fact, we shall demonstrate that those events represent an altogether different people than those who are taking part in this probation.

If the white throne judgment spoken of in verse 11 pertains to those events mentioned in verses 7-10, it pertains to those people, not us…. however, I think that verse 11 reverts back to the main topic being spoken of before verse 10, and therefore is speaking about the last judgment pertaining to our probation as mentioned in section 88:96-102. One of the keys in understanding that the topic reverts back to the previous topic is in the key words “from whose face the earth and heaven fled away..” which puts us back in the pre-millennium time frame  when the heaven and earth flees from the face of God and is burned (see JST 2nd Peter 3:3-13, Rev 16:20 Mark 13:31 Ether 13:8 D&C 29:24-26  63:49 note also that the face of the Lord is unveiled in D&C 88:95)

Lastly, I will provide my interpretation of what Revelation is really speaking about.

Here are the passages in Revelation 20 that he refers to,

“7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their fworks.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and bhell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire”.

It appears that the Anarchist is assuming that the phrase “the dead, small and great” which refers to those that come forth to be judged at the white throne judgment after the millennium, before the end of the earth, has reference to all of the celestial souls, terrestrial souls, telestrial souls and sons of perdition that came forth during the first resurrection as detailed in section 88:96-102

Apparently, he assumes the Saints mentioned in Rev 20:9 includes the righteous “Saints” that are mentioned in section 88:96-102 while the “deceived nations” in Rev 20:8 are referring to the others. If he is correct, then this event cannot possibly be taking place after the paradisaical millennium.

Listed below are a few scriptural reasons why the above interpretation is not consistent with the rest of the scriptures and cannot be accurate. Clearly, if he is correct in putting  the white throne judgment after the millennium, it does not apply to any of the those mentioned in 88:96-102.

I realize that is a very disruptive statement, but the following scriptures will provide multiple witnesses for my conclusion,

1- Earlier in chapter 20 of Revelation (verses 4-6) it acknowledges that the righteous Saints had already received their eternal thrones and were already reigning with Christ. They had already received their crowns and had overcome death. Why would they becoming forth from the dead again after the millennium to be judged if they had already overcome death, received their thrones and had reigned with Christ during the millennium? ( verse 4 says judgment had been given to the righteous Saints that reigned on the thrones for a second witness that judgment is given to the righteous Saints and they possess the kingdom before the millennium,  see Dan 7:22)

2- Section 88:106-107 provides a second witness to the above verses. The Saints are made equal with Christ BEFORE the millennium at the time that Christ declares that “It is finished“. If the Saints are made equal with Christ, receive their eternal crowns and reign on their thrones during the millennium, why would they be coming forth from the dead to be judged again after the millennium?

3- In Section 77:12 Joseph Smith provided the following clarification, “…in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things…”. He then provides the following distinction, “..and redeem all things EXCEPT that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things to the end of all things.” From this we see that his judgment upon everyone was completed after probation ended before the millennium begins. We also see that the salvation of man was completed at that time before the millennium. We are informed however that although the judgment of the Telestials and sons of perdition is completed before the millennium, the telestials will not be redeemed and sealed to their final glory until after the millennium. Hence the terrestrials, although they will eventually be redeemed from hell after the end of the world, would never receive the gift of Salvation, which is to dwell in the presence of God, which is the greatest gift of God.

4- 88:100 speaks of the spirits of men coming forth in some manner to be judged after probation and before the paradisaical millennium who are found under condemnation (it is referring to the telestial and the sons of perdition). Yet 88:101 tells us that they will not live again until the end of the earth… after the little season is over with!

100  And again, another trump shall sound, which is the third trump; and then come the spirits of men who are to be judged, and are found under condemnation;
101  And these are the rest of the dead; and they live not again until the thousand years are ended, neither again, until the end of the earth.(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:100 – 101)

Since those from our probation who are not the righteous Saints don’t  come forth again until after the little season, these people cannot be the ones that are mentioned in Revelation 20 during the white throne judgment!

 

5- The NT teaches that God judges Both the quick[ened] and the dead AT HIS APPEARING
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;” These verse do not state that only a portion will be judged. they don’t state that only the those that are quickened will be judged, it states that both the quick AND the dead are judged AT HIS APPEARING. ( His appearing takes place just before the quick and dead arise, see 88:95)

6- The B of M teaches that all men are judged at the same time, at the LAST AND JUDGMENT DAY. the last day is the seventh day. At the beginning of the seventh seal, all men are judged.

22 If so, wo shall come upon you; but if not so, then cast about your eyes and begin to believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people, and that he shall suffer and die to batone for their sins; and that he shall rise again from the dead, which shall bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him, to be judged at the last and judgment day, according to their works. Alma 33: 22

8- The Book of Mormon teaches that all men will appear at the same general time when they pass from the first death, to be judged. That clearly has to be referring to section 88:96-102.

And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment-seat of the Holy One of Israel; and then cometh the judgment, and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God.
16 And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into feverlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.

Ok…

I think the scriptures provide ample evidence to show that the white throne judgment ether does not have to do with the Celestials, terrestrials, telestials or sons of perdition from this mortal probation OR it does not take place after the paradisaical millennium as the Anarchist opines.

I suspect that you can pretty much guess who verses 7-10 are referring to at this point…

I will address that in part two of this topic

Advertisements

7 Responses to Revelation 20 part one

  1. When’s part two due out? 🙂

  2. Sorry

    I have been distracted with kidney stones, flu and other study of greater interest to me at the present time…

    I’ll try to do it within a week or two..

  3. YIKES! I hope you feel better soon!

  4. cds says:

    What happened to part 2? Luckily I printed it out! Hey Watcher, I read Sefer Yosef by the Zion Heritage International. http://www.lulu.com/product/book-download/sefer-yosef/5621213. Found a neat parallel in this expanded scripture of Joseph of Egypt with Lyman Wight’s experience and seeing YHWH. To quote “And Yosef cried out saying “I am a dead man. For mine eyes have seen the glory of the King of Heaven.”” Sound familiar?

  5. CDS

    I noticed something I hadn’t noticed before pertaining to Rev 20 and needed to make some changes… just haven’t gotten around to re-posting yet.

    In fact I made a few changes to part one as well which I have made..

    I can’t believe you printed it. Do you print every post or is there a particular reason why that one was of interest?

    Regarding the parallel you found.. that is an awesome find!

    Watcher

  6. cds says:

    Watcher, what do you think of guys that I think are really smart like Toscano and A. Larson? Do you think they have just missed what section 124 is saying about temple work or Malachi talking about our covenant of death with the “other” Lord? When I see how it got developed and it looks like a man made work and the gospel seems so simple, like you said the “endowment” always referred to baptism and had nothing to do with celestial marriage and robes. When intellectuals like them that have a lot of things right but can’t see this it worries me that I might be missing something. I just want to do what’s right in the Lord’s eyes and I’m having a hard time knowing if Temple work is not valid at this time until the curse is lifted and it’s reinstituted.
    cds

  7. cds

    I can’t speak for Larson or Toscano.. but the topic you bring up is an interesting one in general.

    I used to wonder just how much Hugh Nibley knew that he was not speaking about. There were several times in his lectures that he was quite outspoken about the apostasy of the church… but he always stopped just short of getting into any real trouble.

    I have met people within the church in teaching positions that seem to understand that there are serious problems in the church yet they have decided to keep silent and wait things out.

    They seem to feel they can do more good in the church than out of it and that we are all justified at this time since there really are no better options…

    One of the things I have tried to point out in several of my posts is that despite the problems that took place in LDS church history and the problems that exist among the Saints today, the LDS church still appears to represent Gods people, even if they are living a lesser law.

    To me, one of the great keys in sorting all of this out is in understanding the doctrine of the three watches because it addresses and explains all of the difficult questions and inconsistencies pertaining to the LDS foundation movement.

    Although the components of that doctrine assure us that the servants will be returning with the fulness of the Gospel, they do not necessarily tell us what we should be doing in the mean time, besides treasuring up the word of God and taking the Holy Spirit as our Guide..

    You said,

    “When intellectuals like them that have a lot of things right but can’t see this it worries me that I might be missing something.”

    I honestly think we are all missing pieces of the puzzle. I think that blindness is over Israel until the appointed time.

    I do think it is very important to be humble and to be open to the possibility that people like them do see something that you don’t… assuming that is the case..

    Most important however, I think you need to follow the spirit. If the spirit tells you to keep doing temple work, etc. then do what the spirit tells you to do.

%d bloggers like this: