For those who are Watching…

November 28, 2008

For general listing of all posts on both sites with brief description click here

This is the sister site of

It contains deep doctrine pertaining to the LDS Restoration Movement and the Restored Church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

One must first learn to swim before one enters into deep waters.

The content provided herein is for those who have been weaned from the breast and yearn for the meat. Those not prepared for the meat can choke on it.

It is for those who have contracted the spirit of watching and have made it through the “Third Watch Boot Camp” which consists of reading every numbered post in chronological order on the above mentioned three watches blog, beginning with the very first post which lays the foundation for the journey you are about to embark on.

AFTER reading the threewatches blog, I highly recommend that you read all of the articles I have posted in the LDSAnarchy Blogsite

If you make it that far and still want more information to read, this blog would be next.

If you cheat and read the information in this site first, you risk getting a big, ugly wart on the end of your nose and you will only be cheating yourself. The content in this blog will make much more sense and be much more meaningful if you lay the proper foundation first.

The deeper doctrines of the kingdom have the ability to either enhance your “testimony” of the restored gospel or expose how frail it is, based on the doctrinal and spiritual foundation you have acquired before you read this information.

Prepare for the journey of your life…. we’re not in Kansas anymore Toto


Listing of Articles posted on LDSAnarchy

The Bridegroom Tarried…

Seven Shepherds and an Angel

A Mystical Look at the LDS Restoration Movement

Why have ye transfigured the Holy Word of God?

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine

We have found the Messias!

“Behold the Time has Fully Come”

The Fulness of the Father

Partial Listing of Articles on this site

When the Floods come and the Winds Blow and the Rains Descend
Watching for the signs in the heavens

A Second Look at the Ten Virgins
Analysing the literal meaning and time frame of the Parable of the Ten Virgins

Searching for the Holy Order and 23 High Priests-

Part 1- Lyman Wight Sees the Father and the Son

Part 2 The Man of Sin is Revealed

Part 3- Melchizedek Priesthood required to Establish Zion

Part 4- The Highest Priesthood makes you a Possessor of All Things

Part 5- Patriarchal Priesthood Administers New and Everlasting Covenant

Part 6- The Transfiguration of Lyman Wight

Part 7- True Oath & Covenant found in True Manner of Baptism

Part 8- The Gospel of Abraham and Patriarchal Polygamy

Part 9- Three Orders of Priesthood

Part 10- Three Distinct Churches Representing Three Distinct Gospel Laws

Baneemy- The Wild Ram of the Mountains
A look at one of the most amazing personalities of the LDS Restoration Movement

The Law of Adoption and the Sealing Principles
How did the Law of Adoption and Sealing Principles evolved into “Families are Forever”?

Black and White Robes- Part One
Ancient prophesies warn that latter day Israel would be seduced into a false covenant

Black and White Robes Part Two
Ancient prophesies warn that a breach will take place between God and his people

Black and White Robes Final

“I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God”
Was it only the righteous in the pre-existent war in heaven that came to earth to go through moral probation?

BECOME ye therefore perfect? OR BE ye therefore perfect?
Did Christ really mean what he said when he commanded us to BE perfect instead of to BECOME perfect?

How do we avoid being decieved? Intellectual knowledge? Warm fuzzy feelings? Or searching the word of God so the Holy Spirit can teach us through mind and our heart?

The Fulness of the Father
The doctrine of oneness and the Celestial Cloning of the Gods

“Bring AGAIN Zion”
Why is it that the Nephite Zion was not translated and caught up into heaven like the city of Enoch? Is it that they still have a mission to fulfill here on earth?

Peace and Safety
Right before the sudden destruction people will be saying “Pease and Safety”

The Return of Sidney Rigdon, God’s Spokesman- Part Four
Fourth and final part

The Unrestrained Ponderings and Pontifications of a Heretic
The mystical Union of the Sexes-Composite Beings- The Abrahamic Priesthood-

The Spiritual Wife Doctrine
The Celestial Law of Consecration requires the Holy Principle of Marital Monogamy

Miscellaneous Musings #3 Kingdom of the Jews (3/7/2014)

March 7, 2014

are you in the wrong placeWARNING: This blog documents the truthfulness of the restored gospel and the validity of the LDS restoration movement and the ministry of the prophet Joseph Smith, HOWEVER, it also contains very controversial material about LDS Church doctrine and history and it is often critical of modern Mormonism.

I have been pondering lately how important transparency is.

I will probably be providing the above graphic (or something similar) and disclaimer at the top of all future posts that have extensive criticism, or something similar thereto.

Although I have had disclaimers in posts and on the side panels, I have decided to make a more concerted effort to be as transparent as possible about the fact that I do belief in the LDS restoration BUT I believe there has been a latter day apostasy and I am often critical of the Modern Church and their leaders.

The Miscellaneous Musings Format

I like the “miscellaneous Musings” format from time to time because it works well with my short attention span and the fact that I often have multiple thoughts on my mind.

Historical Essays

According to some anti-Mormon sites, the primary person that has been hired and compensated by the Mormon Church to write the historical essays is a person named Jed Woodworth. Apparently, he has written for BYU Studies and was the co-author to the book, ‘Rough Stone Rolling. Although I have never heard of the guy before, I am sure he is well qualified to act as voice for the prophet of the church in demystifying all of the disconcerting historical and doctrinal dilemmas that confront members of the church. I would love to know how much he is getting paid… I would have done it for much less!

Bait n Switch Internet Sites

I feel that certain sites such as Mormonstories, MormonThink and even Blogs that promote books like Denver Snuffer and Daymon Smiths, whether intentional or not, are somewhat disingenuous on how they portray their doctrinal agenda, on their main page and in their public persona. I feel they seduce readers into a surface narrative that appears to be pro-Mormon, by an active, believing, card carrying Mormon or Mormons, and then slowly lead the reader into a deeper narrative that is not faith promoting, and not historically or doctrinally accurate.

Using Faithful Membership to Establish Credibility

People often use their “active membership” and “supportive of the Church”  status as a badge of credibility to promote whatever they are promoting, be it a book, an idea, or even a claim of personal enlightenment.

When people claim to have special information to share or want testify that they have had some miraculous pentecostal experience they will often want to reassure their readers that they are a credible and believable source by making sure that people know that they are an active member of the church that submits to the “authority” of the true church.

If a person were to state on their blog that they are a normal lay member of The Church  and that they respect the authority of those presiding authorities and that they served an honorable mission and married in the temple, and have a current temple recommend and have been and remain an active member of the church and that they have no intentions of leaving it… I would personally see those credentials as a questionable resume for informing people how to see God, are sharing a vision, etc.

Those that know the truth about how the restored,true and living church, with fulness of priesthood, fled back into the wilderness as quickly as it came out of the wilderness, can see a huge red flag in such a testimony. The fact that a person is pointing people to the modern church as God’s true church and encouraging them to put their trust in that authority, negates veracity of their claim that they are having conversations with God IMO.

Nobody that has been allowed into the presence of God, IMO, would be encouraging people to put their trust in the apostate church.

The old, humble, self depreciating, “I am nothing special” disclaimer that people often provide and how they are ” not any more righteous than anyone else”,  just because they have had the heavens opened and saw the father and the son is questionable.

The problem with such nonsense of course is that 99% of the seekers out there that have desperately been exercising faith to have the heavens opened, haven’t been able to and they are extremely frustrated and insecure about it.

Being assured that any “normal lay member” that is not anymore virtuous than anyone else can have the experience, only frustrates the poor ssouls even more.


The folks over at MormonThink provide this declaration at the top of their main page

MormonThink has been produced primarily by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who are interested in the historical accuracy of the church and how it is being taught to its members and portrayed in the media.

There is a lot of misinformation on the LDS Church that is presented by both critics and defenders of the faith – particularly on the Internet. We present both viewpoints fairly and let the reader decide.


These purveyors of truth, knowledge, fairness, and objectivity, have also responded to the new history essays in an open letter to President Monson, and, in an attempt to objectively provide both view points, began purchasing billboards along HWY I-15 back in 2011. In November of 2013 their website hits went from 1500 to 170,000 as a result of the billboard marketing campaign:

billboard 1
The above sign seems intriguing.

billboard 2

Saving 10%? Hmm these folks are offering both views?

billboard 3

There’s an objective snippet leading you to both views on the issue!

billboard 4
Yep, if you are feeling confused, mormonthink is surely the place to go because they are prepared to present two fair, unbiased views for you to consider. LOL

Moral Dilemma of News Reporters

The Ukraine

Dennis Kucinich Tells Bill O’Reilly the Truth about US involvement in destabilizing Ukraine

Monster Putin — Could Ukraine standoff have been avoided by Obama?

New York New York

Speaking of the Ukraine, I couldn’t help but see some typology in the following video relating to how well Babylon (America) has seduced the people of other nations into wanting the “good life” and the quest for fame and stardom. We have not only seduced the other nations into the false fiat currency that is easily manipulated by the secret cabal that runs this world, which has brought the nations to the brink of global financial disaster, we have affected their entire world view.

I have never seen so much personality packed into one song. The look on the judges face shortly after the song started compared to his face at 1:13 was priceless. During the first 15 seconds I thought the girl was possessed. By about 1:04 it become apparent this girl can actually sing!

Mrs Watcher claims she missed a few notes in the early part of the song, but this country boy was rather mesmerized by the performance. Since Fusion is a skilled musician, I’ll need to get his input as to whether this girl sang off key or not. It was fun to see how she won the audience and the judges over.

She won me over!

I couldn’t help but wonder what percentage of the audience (and even the judges) speak English.. LOL

I’m sure old “blue eyes” was impressed as he watched the performance from the other side.

The Danger of Conspiracy Theories

A Harvard Law professor wrote a very long paper about the danger of conspiracy theories and on page 14 he offered solutions for dealing with conspiracy theorists:

II. Governmental Responses
 What can government do about conspiracy theories? Among the things it can do, what should it do? We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories. (3) Government might itself engage in counterspeech, marshaling arguments to discredit conspiracy theories. (4) Government might formally hire credible private parties to engage in counterspeech. (5) Government might engage in informal communication with such parties, encouraging them to help. Each instrument has a distinctive set of potential effects, or costs and benefits, and each will have a place under imaginable conditions. However, our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that produce conspiracy theories, which involves a mix of (3), (4) and (5).

Daymon Smith and his Cultural Book of Mormon Bullshit

In my last post I shared my belief, after reading the majority of his first two free pdf’s, that Daymon Smith questions the revelations Joseph Smith received in the BofC and the D&C. I have since had two sources verify that my suspicion was correct.

I also questioned whether Daymon even believes the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

I have had two people assure me that he does. One of them recently attended a fireside in which Daymon spoke.

I also speculated that those that accept many of the suppositions contained in Daymon’s writings would end up going down the rabbit hole presented in the jsfellowship site that I provided which postulated that Joseph was never commanded to do anything other than translate the Book of Mormon. That theory of course was just an old David Whitmer invention after he became disenchanted with the church organization

I have now had it confirmed that in fact, that is largely the foundational premise upon which  Daymon’s thesis rests upon, however he has added much more historical detail and gone to great lengths to assassinate the character of people like Parley Pratt and Sidney Rigdon to support his point.

I got a few more emails from the friend that had originally suggested that I read Daymon’s stuff. The confusion of mind and cognitive dissonance that he is experiencing is incredible. IMO He has been thrown into a state of crisis primarily because of the Daymon Smith BS. I am going to share some of his statements and my responses, for those that want to get to the bottom-line  of what Daymon teaches in his writings about the BofM.

I don’t want to clutter this post with the content so you need to click  on the link below to view the dastardly details conjured up from Daymons demons..

daymon smith BS222

Anyway, if the information I have gleaned from my friend is accurate, I believe Daymon Smith has been seduced by an evil spirit and that the same spirit is buffeting my friend. I hope those of you that have obtained a witness that section 1:37-38 is true, and that the revelations in the BofC and D&C that were originally sustained by the church and God, are true, will join with me in mighty prayer that both of these individuals will be released from the spirit of delusion that they have been inflicted with.

The New USA? Secession Movement Gains Steam

Don’t Seize Guns from Idaho Citizens

February 19th, 2014:
The Idaho Senate passed a bill today without any objection to affirm the 2nd amendment by punishing cops who would obey federal orders to seize the guns of Idaho citizens:

Earth Changes

15 Sinkholes open within a 24 hour period

Four Blood Moons

blood moons

We live in crazy freakin times.

We havein our midst false teachers and prophets that Christ has warned us about.

Well over 20 Bankers have committed suicide( or have been suicided.)

A global financial calamity is being predicted by many between now and the first of four blood moons that  takes place on April 14th or 15th depending on whether you are a Jew or a Gentile.

Some think that war with Russia and China is in the cards.

This is a time to watch even harder than usual.

We are getting ready to start the 13th year of what appears to be a 14 year judgment that followed the completion of the 400 years of affliction prophesied in Gen 15:13-16

Pole shift, sink holes, dramatic climate change, jet stream shift, radiation poisoning the oceans, mass animal die offs, increased volcanic activity, oh my!

Need I say more?

I am going to be turning off my comments functionality or just not moderating and responding to questions as frequently as I used to, from time to time as we approach the first of four blood moons coming up in April. This is because I have some projects I am working on and because I don’t want to be distracted as I WATCH.

Hope you fellow watchers will join me as we WATCH.

I absolutely love all of the comments I get on this blog but I just can’t spend as much time conversing with people as  I used to. Don’t be offended if the comment feature is turned off or I am not as responsive, from time to time.  :)

Here is the next part of the current series.

The Kingdom of the Jews

If you are a Mormon, there is a good chance you are a Jew :)






















Miscellaneous Musings #2 (2/28/2014)

February 28, 2014

are you in the wrong placeThis blog contains controversial information about the Mormon Church.

The History Essays Addressing Controversial Issues

The LDS Church has begun a series of history essays in an effort to provide an official response to some of the difficult and controversial historical and doctrinal issues that are causing many members of the Church to have a crisis of faith. I first addressed the topic of the LDS Google Apostasy and how the Internet was creating a crisis if faith in many Mormons back in April of 2012

The Google Apostasy Part One

The Google Apostasy Part Two

The Google Apostasy Part Three

The Google Apostasy Part Four

The article quoted Marlin Jensen as saying

The church has assigned a staffer to create “a strategy to get church history onto the Web,” he said. We are also working on an initiative to answer some of these more pressing questions.

Apparently, the initiative to answer some of the “more pressing” questions has materialized in the form of the new history essays that are being published on

Predictably, no single general authority is taking credit or responsibility for the content in these essays, but the fact that they are being published on the provides the official “stamp of approval” from the brethren. Clearly, the first Presidency of the Church has commissioned this effort and has approved the content thereof even if they have opted to not sign their names to the essays.

This video provides some interesting information about the essays, as given by Elder Steven E. Snow, the relatively new church historian.

He claims that the church has “retained known scholars” that are outside of the LDS historical department to create a draft of each of the essays, which are reviewed by a committee in the Church History Department  and selected General Authorities, and ultimately approved by the Quorum of the Twelve and the First Presidency.

Once approved, each essay is published in “gospel topics” under

I was really flattered when I got a call from President Monson’s office asking me if I would be willing to be on a committee that helps to craft some of these essays addressing sensitive subjects. I had no idea the brethren even knew who I was. So you can only imagine how surprised I was when Mrs. Watcher told me that President Monson was on the phone.

I could tell he was quite nervous and trying to gain composure as he asked me how I would feel about participating. I think he was hesitant to ask me since I have been known  to be critical of how the church has avoided addressing some of these sensitive topics.

Of course I was honored to be asked to participate but,  the first thing I asked was, “will I be reimbursed for my efforts?

Actually, I am just have a little bit of fun… (as if it wasn’t blatantly obvious to you)

Naturally, I was disappointed and shocked when the church failed to contact me to be part of this project since I consider my self to be one of the foremost scholars on LDS Church History! LOL

I have a friend who has contacted the church historical department to see if the church is willing to divulge the names of these “known scholars” but and answer to date, has not been forthcoming. If anyone else has any information on this I would be interested in learning who is involved… but we can rest assured that they are “well known”. (Hey, I can’t gripe about this one, after all, I am the one that insists that content should be judged solely on the message, not the messenger!)

I suspect some of my friends involved with FARMS, FAIR and the MORMONINTERPRETER are among the inner elect that are providing illumination on these topics that have previously not been properly researched.

Brother Snow characterizes this project as “ground breaking in a way” because, as he claims, these issues have not had “academic attention” or been “researched properly” in the past.

I am mystified by that statement.

I don’t believe that the research produced in the essays thus far is ground breaking. I do, however, believe that an attempt at authoritative public responses to these issues, in modern times,  with the First Presidency’s stamp of approval, is somewhat ground breaking.

One of the things that Elder Snow pointed out, that I really agree with, (being described as I understood what he was saying) is that if you look at the big picture of LDS history as a tapestry of events that provide a general storyline, it is remarkable and faith-promoting. Yet if you look at some of the individual “threads” having to do with specific events, they can be disconcerting, particularly if viewed out of context.

I agree with that!

Yes there are lots of very disruptive things in LDS Church history, but those who take a contextual look at the overall picture, including a deep search into the content within the scriptures brought forth through the instrumentality of Joseph Smith, it becomes obvious that a higher intelligence was directing the movement despite the follies of EVERY human being involved in the restoration movement.

The Student Review did a review on this topic recently. John Dehlin of MormonStories also did.

Surprisingly, John Dehlin gave a relatively positive review of the church’s current attempt to address these essays that address controversial historical issues which can be found here. I thought I would make a few observations as well.

In my comments section the other day I admitted to a commenter that I waffle back and forth in whether my comments about the church are charitable or condemning depending on which side of the bed I wake up on.

Be advised that I did not sleep well last night and I exited the bed from the wrong side today. Luckily Mrs Watcher had already left the bed, or my anxious exit therefrom might have  left a disgruntled set of tread marks across her pointed but loveable little forehead.

While I agree with most critics that this attempt is a step in the right direction, by virtue of the fact that the attempt is being made at all, and in the sense that the church now desires to publicly and officially address these issues.

Nevertheless, I am absolutely shocked and horrified by some of the disingenuous content within the essays and I think it will backfire on the church with regard to those members who are not sheeple and who don’t check their brains at the door when entering the church and who actually have knowledge of the cursory facts.sheeple2

Let me show you a few of the things that give me indigestion in the essays.

First let me observe that the essays read much more like content created by a PR department than a knowledgeable and authoritative prophet of God.


Here is a quote that alerts the informed reader that a big pile of BS is about to be served.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was restored amidst a highly contentious racial culture in which whites were afforded great privilege

The above apologetic statement is of course, true, but should be completely irrelevant, and is meant to soften the view of readers about the past practices and doctrines of the LDS Church in general, and Brigham Young specifically. When a prophet of God is getting their marching orders from God, the culture of the time really doesn’t matter because God does not concern himself with being politically correct.

A true prophet doesn’t either when delivering a message from God.

As the “prophet” of the church that integrated the racial doctrines and practices into the church relative to blacks and the priesthood, the essay attempts to explain that Brigham was the poor victim of a racial culture and he was therefore understandably justified in the false racist policies that he implemented.

The problem with the supposition is that Joseph Smith was also raised in a “highly contentious racial culture”, yet he was unaffected by it and allowed all men of all races to enjoy priesthood privilege.

Therefore, the suggestion that Brigham Young understandably erred in this area because of strong cultural pressure,  in my opinion, does not  provide an acceptable excuse for the second president of the church and most of those that followed him. The first president of the church had already set the standard, according to revelation from God, in the midst of a “highly contentious racial culture”.

To imply that Brigham Young was simply a misguided product of the culture he lived in is ludicrous. He was living right there in Kirtland under the watch of Joseph Smith when Elijah Abel and other Blacks were ordained to the priesthood. He watched as Elijah Abel was called and ordained as a member of the elite 3rd quorum of the Seventy.

Who are we kidding?

Furthermore, Joseph Smith proclaimed that people are called to the priesthood by the gift of prophecy. Elijah Abel had not only the endorsement of Joseph Smith, but also of the Lord, by virtue of his ordination. If not, then the revelatory credibility of the foundation of the LDS restoration must be called into question.

The culture of the time is not the reason that Brigham  Young created a discriminatory doctrine against Blacks. Brigham’s heart was apparently full of hate toward the Black Man. All you need to do is read the words of Brigham Young and it is evident that he despised the black man.

The issues was not simply a cultural issues. Brigham’s rejection of what Joseph had revealed about priesthood is the issue and Brigham Young’s status as a living prophet is the issue.

Brigham Young new full well that the Lord had not restricted the priesthood to the Blacks during the ministry of Joseph Smith.

The truth is that Brigham Young had a deep rooted issue with Blacks. He probably had these racial issues long before he joined the church. It is even possible that these issues had something to do with his decision to hold off on joining the church for two years after the gospel message was delivered to him.

The Blacks and the Priesthood issue has always been a doctrinal issue. If, in fact it was primarily a  cultural issue during the ministry of Brigham Young, as the article suggests, then the validity of Brigham Young’s calling as the President of the Church and the level of inspiration he was laboring under is the real issue in question .

The truth is that Brigham Young was a loose cannon that rejected some of the foundational doctrines and practices established by Joseph Smith and divine revelation. He had been a Free Mason with some pretty strong racial prejudices long before he joined the church.

Albert Pike was also a prominent Freemason at the time. He is believed to have been “..influential in the early Ku Klux Klan, being named in 1905 as “the chief judicial officer” of the Klan… He was cited as the leader of the Arkansas Ku Klux Klan” as well.

I believe that racist Masons like Albert Pike probably had a very strong influence on Brigham Young. It cannot be denied that Brigham’s belief about race paralleled those of Pike and the Ku Klux Klan.


This is another essay that avoids the real issue and attempts to intoxicate the reader with a bunch of blue smoke.

To the credit of the church PR committee that put their stamp of approval on it, the article begins with this declaration:

The Bible and the Book of Mormon teach that the marriage of one man to one woman is God’s standard, except at specific periods when He has declared otherwise.

That declaration is true, but very misleading, because the First Presidency of the church has not always taught what the Bible and Book of Mormon teach on the topic. For decades the church was teaching contrary to the word of God regarding marriage. The Church taught that a special form of Celestrial polygamy was the Lord’s standard for those desiring admittance in the highest kingdom of heaven.

Brigham Young must be turning over in his grave knowing that such a statement  is being endorsed by those who have succeeded him. He prophesied that if the practice was ever denied, the church would be damned.

He declared countless times that the only way for a man to be exalted in the celestial kingdom was to have multiple wives sealed to him. During Brigham Young’s watch, polygamy was the supreme marital standard that was taught, not monogamy.

The article conveniently omits that very well known fact.

I could go on and on about these essays and the fact that they are a real insult to a persons intelligence, but I shall avoid the temptation.

Tesla and HAARP

I am a huge Tesla fan and came across the following presentation on how HAARP evolved from his research

The Bonus Army

For history buffs that are always looking to increase their knowledge of our country’s history, I present this little tid-bit

How does God really feel about Government?

I recently got the following comment from a reader:


I recently read a very good article I thought you might like. Here is the link:

It shows from the Bible that Jesus was an “anarchist”. And it follows that His followers should be also.”

The article has some fantastic stuff in it that might cause some people to rethink the way they feel about government. The article seems to substantiate Verlin Anderson’s belief that Government is the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil.

One of the few  things I disagree with in the article is the statement that God does not pick the leaders of nations. The book of Daniel actually teaches that God sets up all of the leaders of nations good and bad. I am of the opinion that God has set up our current President of the US because of our wickedness. Our current Government has been put in place as a judgement against this nation.

The Cultural History of the Book of Mormon

Several high profile LDS bloggers have blogged about Daymon Smith’s series on the Book of Mormon. Because of this and the fact that a few of my readers have encouraged me to read it, I have suffered myself to read the first two pdf’s that he is giving away free… and I mean SUFFER!

The read has been so painful thus far that I am not sure if I can continue. I can find absolutely nothing faith-promoting in it.

Shortly into the first pdf it became apparent to me that Daymon does not believe the revelations contained in the D&C. He omits modern revelation as having any part in the way the content in the Book of Mormon is interpreted from what I can ascertain.

A little further into the pdf I had my next major epiphany about Smith.

Daymon Smith does not believe the Book of Mormon is an inspired revelation from God about the literal ancient inhabitants of America. This, of course, is my opinion and interpretation based on what I have read so far.

One of the major suppositions of the thesis is that the incorrect interpretations of the content in the Book of Mormon that the early members of the restored church were infected with, ( and passed down to us Morons) had infiltrated the church through the likes of people like Sidney Rigdon and Parley Pratt who had been falsely indoctrinated by people like Alexander Campbell and earlier protestant reformers and “restorationists”. Hence the name a “cultural” history of the Book of Mormon.

Naturally, since I am a died in the wool believer in modern revelation, and since God puts his stamp of approval on Sidney Rigdon and Parley Pratt as the most able teachers of doctrine, who were both called by revelation to teach in the school of the prophets, I consider Daymon’s characterizations of Sidney Rigdon and Parley Pratt to be pure bullshit.

(Denver Snuffer seems to love Daymon’s work which makes perfect sense to me)

A very subliminal secondary supposition hiding in the background of the context of Daymon’s work is that the very content of the Book of Mormon itself, also originated from American religious culture , not from God’s inspired Book of Mormon prophets.

Now I may be completely wrong in my assessment. If I am, it certainly will not be the first time I have misjudged something prematurely. I invite and even welcome contrary views with regard to Daymon’s thesis of examples can be provided. I have asked people who are high on his work to explain to me why they love it so much and why it is so profound yet none have been able to respond.

My opinion is that Daymon is a disgruntled ex-employee of the LDS Church that has a vendetta.

I suspect that his “Book of Mammon” is pretty good and pretty eye-opening, based on the unique, up close and personal perspective that Daymon had working within the beast, but I think that his current attempt to use the Book of Mormon to further his agenda is unfortunate. At times one gets the impression that the Book of Mormon is just a footnote in a larger attempt to show forth his historical knowledge of religious history.

It seems to me that anti-Mormon tactics have reached a new high (or low as the case may be) by being administered from within the church. There are now a lot of anti-mormon bloggers and authors that claim membership in the church and by so doing, they are able to gain a greater LDS audience.

John Dehlin is a perfect example. He uses his membership in the church to great advantage in spreading doubt about the authenticity of the restoration movement. Nevertheless, I give credit to John Dehlin for having the integrity to publicly admit he does not believe. It is my understanding that Daymon Smith still claims some degree of belief in the Book of Mormon, even though I have yet to find any serious evidence in his writings.

This brings me to my next topic

“..I have commanded him that he shall Pretend to no Other Gift”

For those who can read the Daymon Smith material on the Book of Mormon and other similar stuff, and still retain some degree of belief in the Book of Mormon, I believe that the natural course many of them have taken or will take, is to reject modern revelation and virtually everything else that Joseph Smith did.

The writings of David Whitmer after he left the church provide a strong argument that leads down that same rabbit hole. I have already blogged about the beliefs of David Whitmer and the content in his “Address to believers in the Book of Mormon”.

It is becoming increasingly common to see fringe Internet bloggers that write exclusively about the Book of Mormon and seldom if ever address the significance of modern revelation. I believe many of them have lost faith in modern revelation.

Many years ago I came upon a website with a very compelling doctrinal narrative that began to shake my own foundation regarding the extent of the calling of Joseph Smith because the logic and supporting scripture was do compelling.

The foundational premise of the site was based on the following passage from the Book of Commandments:

…and he [Joseph Smith, Jr.] has a gift to translate the book and I have commanded him that he shall pretend to no other gift, for I will grant him no other gift.”

When the Doctrine and Covenants was published two years later, the above verse was altered in a way that justifiably causes pause to many people. It was changed to allow Joseph’s ministry to take on a broader scope that would include translating the Bible, recieving a canon of scripture through personal revelation, restoring the law of the gospel, restoring priesthood, re-stablishing the church, building a temple, etc.

The website I came upon back in the day, provided an extensive diatribe that was built upon the premise suggested by the above verse in the Book of Commandments

I am going to provide the link to that website but I want to first WARN my readers that you could loose you testimony of anything Joseph did besides translate the Book of Mormon if you visit the site and if you are not well grounded deeply in the four standard works.

This onewhoiswatching blogsite is dedicated to studying deep issues that can be faith promoting if the reader has the necessary depth of doctrinal understanding and scriptural knowledge, HOWEVER, it can be faith-destroying for those that should stay in shallow waters.

Frankly, if it was not for the prophecies in the Old Testament that I discovered while researching the information contained in the Atonement Statute, which led me to the Biblical prophetic profile of who Joseph Smith really is, what is ministry was to be composed of, and what was to happen during his first commission, I very possibly would have bought into the scenario offered on that site. I spent quite some time debating the owner of the site over these issues.

Ok, after spending a long time trying to find the site, I realized that it must have been taken down.

I don’t know why the author of the site took the website down. I would like to think that he had an epiphany that he was wrong in his conclusions, but I was not born yesterday.

Anyway…  there is an amazing service called the “internet archive waybackmachine” that can provide a saved version of defunct webpages.

Here is the link to the webpage that claims Joseph Smith was never commissioned to do anything except translate the Book of Mormon.

Again, unless you have a sure foundation in scripture, the site can be dangerous to your understanding of Joseph Smith’s mission.

Ok now. If you have made it to the end of this post, you’re reward is the link to the next installment of the current series.

It has to do with Joseph Smith’s prophetic letter to N. C. Saxton informing him and the world, that the Gentiles had already broken the everlasting covenant and were about to do it again, causing the heavens to be sealed shut until the Marvelous Work begins.


saxton final

BTW some of the links contained in the pdf to the Saxton letter on the Joseph Smith Papers site have mysteriously been changed since I last addressed the topic.. you may need to do a key word search if you want to read the entire content being reference.

Miscellaneous Musings 2/11/2014

February 11, 2014

Miscellaneous Musings Number 2/9/2014

I have been physically and mentally sidetracked from working on my current series for quite some time, doing some traveling and other things and not able to think much about, or work much on the current Snuffer series or the final post on Content and Context. I am hoping to get back in the saddle soon and get focused writing again… however I am considering publishing a book as an alternative to, or in conjunction with posting on a blog.

One of the things that has occurred to me is that when information is given out for free it is not appreciated and consumed by as many people. I recall hearing BRM state that as long as missionaries gave out Book of Mormons for free, people did not value them or attach a perceived value to them. The books were quickly discarded or they just accumulated dust sitting on the bookshelf.

Once missionaries began charging  for them, although fewer books were dispersed, significantly more people began to read the book, value it, and take it seriously. That is the downside of blogging in my opinion. It is interesting how many people will peruse and purchase a book but would never read a blog with the same content.

Sad, but true..

There are many successful authors that, IMHO, charge exorbitant amounts for their books, with content that would not be nearly as widely read if they simply provided all of their research for free on the internet. Although I used to look disparagingly  upon the practice of publishing doctrinal books and charging for information, I am now beginning to rethink things.

Perhaps the psychology behind the strategy successfully gets people to evaluate a message that they would otherwise not value or invest the time to consider if it was provided freely.

Current Events and Thoughts

There are  numerous current events that are worthy of note as well as a few other things that have been on my mind. Some of the news events and issues that I am going to comment on have been brought to my attention by commenters on this blog.

Faith vs Works

Recently a commenter challenged my readers to read Romans. Mrs Watcher and I love reading all of the standard works and feel that each of them have a unique spirit about them. We love reading the New Testament. There is such a powerful spirit contained in the New Testament. While reading Romans I began to think about some of my other favorite New Testament scriptures and it occurred to me just how important passages in the New Testament have been in helping me to interpret passages from the Book of Mormon.

I have written two of my favorite scriptural passages below. One from the New Testament and the other from the Book of Mormon. There was a time when I did not see these two passages as saying the same thing because I allowed my LDS indoctrination to color how I interpreted the passage and I considered the Book of Mormon to be more enlightened than the Bible. Since that time, I have had events take place in my life that have caused me to get back to the basics of Biblical Christianity and I have begun to cherish and value the Bible as the doctrinal baseline from which to interpret the Book of Mormon.

I now interpret the two passages below to be in complete harmony with each other.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Eph 2:8-9

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” 2 Nephi 25:23

I think many Latter day Saints have been guilty of assuming that 2 Nephi 25:23 is saying that if we do everything that we possibly can, to keep the commandments and do good works, then we will qualify for that additional  grace of God to pick up the slack and to cover the remaining portion of what we are unable to do for ourselves. I have attempted to depict this erroneous interpretation in the first graph below.

I have been guilty of viewing the Book of Mormon passage that way. I am now of the opinion that such an interpretation is arrogant and erroneous.

I believe Nephi was actually making the same point that Paul  was making. No matter what we can do or how much we do,  it is still 100% by the grace of God that we are saved.

 grace graft

 Converted Jews are to Gather to America!

Thanks to some interrogation from Ryan I was forced to dig up a quote that I had neglected to put in some past comments as well as the upcoming post on the establishment of the latter day Kingdom of the Jews. I am grateful for the nudge because I have now included it in the upcoming post and it is an incredibly important quote. Here it is for those who did not read the comment and don’t want to wait for the post to read it.

“We had a letter from Elder Hyde, a few days ago, who is in New Jersey, and is expecting to leave for England as soon as Elder Page reaches him. He requested to know if converted Jews are to go to Jerusalem or to come to Zion. I therefore wish you to inform him that converted Jews must come here.” (HC 4:231 approx October 1840)

One of the things Orson Hyde is remembered for is his dedicatory prayer for the city of Jerusalem in the Old World. Many saints falsely assume that the Hyde had been authorized and commissioned by  the Lord through Joseph Smith to dedicate the land of Jerusalem in the Old World for the gathering of the Jews but such is not the case.

Here is a little history regarding Hyde leading up to the above quote that will hopefully provide some context-

a) When Oliver Cowdery and other Latter Day Saint missionaries preached in Kirtland in late 1830, Hyde spoke publicly against the “Mormon Bible.” However, when his former minister, Sidney Rigdon joined the church, Hyde investigated the claims of the missionaries for three months, and was baptized by Rigdon on October 30, 1831. Although I don’t begrudge Orson’s initial rejection of the Book of Mormon, I think it is part of a pattern of confusion that he struggled with.

b) After joining the church and doing missionary work, Orson Hyde was in a personal state of apostasy at the time he overheard Joseph Smith speaking to Heber C Kimball about opening foreign missions in 1837. This was during the “Kirtland Apostasy” that had to do with the failure of the Kirtland Safety Society. Upon hearing about the opportunity to help establish foreign missions, he excitedly offered contrition for his murmurings  and obtained forgiveness and permission to accompany Kimball in the effort.

While Heber was being set apart for his mission, Orson Hyde walked into the room. Upon hearing what was happening, Orson was moved to repent, for he had been among the leaders of the Church caught up in the spirit of speculation and criticism of Joseph Smith. He acknowledged his faults, asked forgiveness, and offered to accompany Heber on his mission.”

(The apostolic mission with Heber C. Kimball to Great Britain in 1837 to 1838 was credited in bringing thousands of converts to the faith.)

c) After he returned from that mission Apostle Hyde quickly went into apostasy again. Section 112 testifies that the entire quorum of the twelve were struggling and were”unconverted” to the gospel in July of 1837  .It is fascinating to realize that God was using an apostate quorum of apostles do “something new for the salvation of the church” in taking the preparatory gospel to the nations. It was during that period in which the twelve were called to establish foreign missions.

Apostle Thomas B. Marsh, the president of the quorum of  the Twelve was so concerned about the apostate condition of his brethren of the Twelve and their commission to take the gospel to the nations that he petitioned Joseph  Smith to get a revelation regarding the state of his brethren. This resulted in section 112 which admonishes Marsh to:

“..pray for thy brethren of the Twelve.  Admonish them sharply for my name’s sake, and let them be admonished for all their sins, and be ye faithful before me unto my name.

13  And after their temptations, and much tribulation, behold, I, the Lord, will feel after them, and if they harden not their hearts, and stiffen not their necks against me, they shall be converted, and I will heal them.”

Ironically, President Marsh himself would jointly apostatize with Orson Hyde within a little over a year after Section 112 was given. Marsh and Hyde would both accuse Joseph Smith of organizing a secret combination to support the heads of the church against the unbelieving gentiles. Other accounts claim that the “Danites” plundered and harassed anyone that was not a member of the church..

Upon returning from Britain, during a period of persecution and internal dissension, Hyde wrote that he felt God was no longer with the church” and apostatised again.  “He left the church on October 19, 1838 with Thomas B. Marsh, the presiding member of the Twelve. Marsh explained the reasons for their dissent in an affidavit which he and Hyde signed on October 24, 1838 in Richmond, Missouri. These included their contention that the Mormons had organized into a company known as the Danites, “who have taken an oath to support the heads of the church in all things that they say or do, whether right or wrong” and that Mormon and Danite vigilantes had burned and looted non-Mormon settlements in Daviess County.[5] Marsh and Hyde also claimed that Joseph Smith planned to “to take the State, & he professes to his people to intend taking the U.S. & ultimately the whole world.”

The testimony of Marsh and Hyde added to the panic in northwestern Missouri and contributed to subsequent events in the 1838 Mormon War.” Hyde was disfellowshipped because of his disaffection.

d) Hyde would once again “repent” and once again be called to preach the gospel in foreign lands. This time his ministry would include going to Jerusalem. He was called jointly  with John Page by a conference of leaders of the Church. The calling came in a meeting held on April 6th 1840. (Although Page never made the journey, Hyde would laber from April 1841 to December of 1842.)

Here is the beginning of the letter drafted by the conference:

“To all people unto whom these pres ents shall come.—Greeting.

Be it known that we the con stituted authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, as sembled in conference, atNauvoo, Han cock county and State of Illinois, on  this, sixth day of April, in the year of  our Lord, one thousand, eight hundred  and forty, considering an important  event at hand, an event involving the  interest and fate of the Gentile nations  throughout the world. From the signs  of the times, and from declarations con tained in the oracles of God, we are  forced to come to this conclusion.

The Jewish nation have been scat tered abroad among the Gentiles for a  long period; and in our estimation, the  time of the commencement of their return to the Holy land, has already arrived.”

In my opinion, the “holy land” that the scattered Jews were to gather to was the Land of America, not the Jerusalem of the Old World. Both the Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Mormon had identified America as the land that God had given to ALL of the children of Abraham in the latter days. This is why Joseph made the following clarification to Orson Hyde

“We had a letter from Elder Hyde, a few days ago, who is in New Jersey, and is expecting to leave for England as soon as Elder Page reaches him. He requested to know if converted Jews are to go to Jerusalem or to come to Zion. I therefore wish you to inform him that converted Jews must come here.” (HC 4:231 approx October 1840)

The following spreadsheet shows many of the Book of Mormon prophecies regarding the latter day restoration of the Jews:

It points out that:

a) The Jews do not gather in the last days until AFTER they begin to Believe in Christ

b) They gather to America, not the Old World

c) They are grafted into the Latter day Saint Church

Bottom-line: The latter day saints represent the re-establishment of the Kingdom of the Jews! More on this in the next post.

Strangely enough, Orson Hyde dedicated the land of Jerusalem in the Old world about a year later for the gathering of the scattered remnants of Judah, “according to the predictions of the holy Prophets“:

“..arrived in this place to dedicate and consecrate this land unto Thee, for the gathering together of Judah’s scattered remnants, according to the predictions of the holy Prophets — for the building up of Jerusalem again after it has been trodden down by the Gentiles so long, and for rearing a Temple in honor of Thy name..”

I am of the belief that Orson Hyde was not commissioned to dedicate the Old World Jerusalem for the gathering of Judah. I believe he was very confused and errant in doing so. His actions have greatly affected the trajectory of the mindset of the leaders of the church in future generations.

Many scholars have pointed out that the gathering of the  ashkenazi jews that has been financed by the Rothchilds in the Old World is a scam and that they are not even the authentic Jews mentioned in the Bible. Fortunately, the Book of Mormon reveals the mystery of who the real Jews are.

As Sir Lancelot would say,

C’est Moi!

It is possible that Hyde never got the instructions contained in the letter sent by Joseph Smith.

Orson Hyde had NOT been commissioned to dedicate the Old World Jerusalem for the gathering of the remnants of Judah. Here is what his commission consisted of:

He was to be an ” agent and representative [of the church] in foreign lands, to visit the cities of London,  Amsterdam, Constantinople and Jeru salem; and also other places that he  may deem expedient, and converse with  the priests, rulers and Elders of the  Jews, and obtain from them all the in formation possible, and communicate  the same to some principal paper for  publication, that it may have a general circulation throughout the United States.”

Clearly, Hyde’s commission was to converse with priests, rulers and Elders of the Jews and obtain information for a publication. The commission did not include dedicating the land of Jerusalem for the gathering of the Jews. The dedicatory prayer was Orson Hydes own idea based on a vision that he claimed to have.

His decision to dedicate the land for the return of the Jews contradicted Joseph’s declaration that the  “converted Jews must come here.

A few years after Hyde returned from his second foreign mission to Jerusalem, he was found preaching false doctrine about the  last days and was corrected in private and then publicly by the prophet Joseph Smith. (See section 130)

Orson Hyde was a well meaning and enthusiastic person with good intentions. He labored much for the restored gospel and had much success in preaching the gospel, HOWEVER, it appears that he was very confused about a number of doctrinal issues as were many of the saints.

It should not surprise anyone that he took it upon himself to dedicate the Old World Jerusalem for the return of the scattered remnants of Judah, even though Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and modern revelation all testify that the Jews are to gather to America in the last days after they  begin in Christ.

I would further suggest that we latter day Jews (saints) have never progressed past the stage of “beginning to believe in Christ”. We are still stumbling over the “lesser things” we have been given.

More on the re-establishment of the latter day Kingdom of the Jews when I continue on the current series.

True Prophets Can Utter False Prophecies

Deuteronomy 18:15-22 is a greatly misinterpreted section of the Old Testament.

There are countless websites dedicated to exposing the false prophecies of Joseph Smith. I have pointed out in previous posts that many of the accusations about false  prophecies are not false prophecies at all, they are simply misinterpretations of the scriptures that we LDS are guilty of making. Hence we bring about much of the criticism because of our inability to interpret our own scriptures correctly.

One of my favorite examples is Section 84:4. Mormon publications claim that verse is referring to the Jackson County Temple that was to be built in that generation. Naturally, it would have been a false revelation had the interpretation been accurate. Of course, the verse is actually referring to the Kirtland Temple and therefore the prophecy did come to pass, not only within that generation, but within four years of the prophecy.

He shall speak presumptuously

 Many of the anti-Mormon websites quote Deut 18:21-22 to provide Biblical proof that a true prophet is prophetically infallible and can never utter a false prophecy.  People interpret it to be stating that true prophets NEVER utter false prophecies. It reads thusly:

21  And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

22  When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Some of these sites further suggest that if someone utters a false prophecy, he is a false prophet that should be put to death according to Old Testament law. They derive this supposed Old Testament law from verse 20:

20  But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

The assumption that Old Testament prophets were to be stoned to death for giving false prophecies is questionable in my opinion. Can anyone show me a scripture providing a second witness to that doctrine?

Can anyone provide an example of an Old Testament prophet being stoned for giving a false prophecy?

90% of the prophecies uttered by Old Testament prophets were about things that would happen decades and centuries later. Often after they were dead. Are to believe that people are waiting around for decades and even centuries to stone someone for telling a false prophecy according to Old Testament law?

Deuteronomy 13:1-5 is also used to justify putting a prophet to death for prophesying falsely however, a careful reading of those passages reveals that the sin that brings death is not a false prophecy but rather a false teaching that causes people to worship a false god. (those passages arguably also represent a prophecy pertaining to a latter day prophet, rather than a law)

My contention is that Deuteronomy 18:15-22 is not referring to a law. Rather, it is a prophecy about future events.

The “Two” who are Like  Moses

Another false doctrine that Mormon scholars derive from Deuteronomy 18:15-20 is that there is only one prophet in the last days that will be “like Moses“.  This causes disputations ab out who the real “one like Moses” really is. Because of this, many people reject the prophecies that declare Joseph Smith to be the one “like Moses” such as D&C 103:15-22 (2nd Nephi 3, D&C 107:92,  JST Genesis 50, etc.) in favor of the passages that declare Christ to be the one like Moses such as 1st Nephi 22:19-21, etc.

The truth is that Deuteronomy 18:15-22 actually speaks of two separate and distinct prophets that are typological to Moses. It refers first to Christ’s role as being like Moses. Then it speaks of Joseph Smith’s role of being like Moses.

Again, one of the keys to understanding Deuteronomy 18:15-22 is in realizing that it is a prophecy about the two separate and distinct prophets that would each be typological to Moses. One would not speak presumptuously, the other would.

The first prophet “Like Moses” referred to in verse 15 is obviously Christ. We know this from the following passages of scripture in the Book of Mormon:

19  For behold, the righteous shall not perish; for the time surely must come that all they who fight against Zion shall be cut off.

20  And the Lord will surely prepare a way for his people, unto the fulfilling of the words of Moses, which he spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.  And it shall come to pass that all those who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people.

21  And now I, Nephi, declare unto you, that this prophet of whom Moses spake was the Holy One of Israel; wherefore, he shall execute judgment in righteousness. (1st Nephi 22)

What many LDS prophecy scholars are not aware of is that verses 18-22 speak of ANOTHER last days prophet like Moses that is NOT Christ. In my opinion, it speaks also of Joseph Smith.

Unlike the first prophet mentioned in verse 15, this second prophet manifests some of the shortcomings of Moses’ ministry, including the fact that he makes a grievous mistake, just as Moses did when he spoke “presumptuously” and failed to sanctify the Lord when he struck the rock twice in Numbers 20:9-12!

The council given regarding these two prophets that are mentioned in Deut 18:15-22 is quite different. The passages command us to categorically “hearken” to the voice of Jesus Christ, the first prophet “like Moses” referred to in verse 15, because he never errors and he speaks as God (just as Moses was commanded to speak in behalf of God)

Verse 18 introduces a different last days prophet that is like Moses. This second prophet first speaks “all that [the Lord] shall command him” but then he eventually speaks “presumptuously“. Instead of being commanded to categorically hearken to his commands, the passages tell us to not be afraid of him when his prophecies don’t come true.

Many Mormons are afraid to entertain the possibility that Joseph Smith ever did anything wrong. They think it would be blasphemy to suggest such a thing.

Those that understand the atonemment statute can appreciate who this is referring to.

15  ¶ The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

[Moses is prophesying of Christ here]

16  According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17  And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.


18  I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. [Moses is prophesying of Joseph Smith here]

19  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

20  But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. [Moses is not giving a law to stone false prophets, he is foretelling about a last days prophet who will utter a false prophecy and then be put to death by angry men (see 2nd Samuel )]

21  And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

22  When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Monson Ordered to Appear on Fraud Charges

Most of you are probably aware that President Monson has been ordered to appear before a magistrate in England on fraud charges filed by a disaffected ex-Mormon who is disputing the fundamental teachings of religion. Most legal experts in England and America think it is unlikely that he will be extradited. (See also here and here. )

Although it is doubtful that he will appear in person and doubtful that anything significant of a legal nature will be resolved, I find it to be a significant sign of the times. One of the main players in getting the unusual and unlikely summonses to fruition is Tom Phillips, the managing director of MormonThink, which is an online publication which claims to provide a neutral perspective about Mormon History and Doctrine.

Tom is the ex-Bishop and Stake President that became disgusted when the brethren summoned him and his wife to the temple to receive the second anointing and nothing happened. Tom and his wife just sat in the temple waiting for Christ to show up, but it was a “no-show” event.  This caused Tom to begin re-evaluating the claims of the church and searching deeper into the history and doctrine of the church. He is now a seething anti-Mormon that has lost his family over his anger and apostasy from the church ( transcripts and or audios and videos of his ordeal can be see hear and hear and hear.

Denver Has Declared His Dispensation!

One of Snuffers loyal followers has pointed out that Denver has declared his dispensation. The following snippet is from Denver’s Orem talk:

“Now you tell me, you declare to me, what are your dispensations? (I have one, and Joseph had one, but do you have one also?)”

Interestingly, he seems to be using the Catholic definition for the term “dispensation” rather than the one revealed in LDS scripture. LOL

Perhaps Denver has received a special dispensation from Pope Francis. LOL

False Christs Commission False Prophets

About two and a half months ago I did a post regarding Matthew 24:23-24 and interpreted the passage to be inferring that the false prophets being spoken of by Christ, become so, by being visited and called to their ministry by a False Christ. I believe this represents the defining difference between people like Denver Snuffer and Christopher Nemelka.

Christopher Nemelka, in my opinion has not been deceived. Rather, he is an intentional deceiver. He has not been visited by any heavenly messengers, he is simply a very calculating charlatan who is intentionally deceiving people. He crafted his “sealed portion” with the intent to fool people. A good friend of mine recently found out that one of his associates has bought into the Nemelka scam.

Snuffer on the other hand, seems to sincerely believe that he has been visited and commissioned by Jesus Christ to teach the gospel and bring about Zion. In a future post I will demonstrate that the everlasting covenant between God and his people was rejected by the Jews in the meridian of time and broken by the Gentiles during the ministry of Joseph Smith. This is why it is impossible for people to be getting the second comforter from the true Christ until those who have been properly commissioned return to re-establish the broken covenant.

This is just one of many reasons why it is obvious that Snuffer has been deceived into thinking that he has received the second comforter and some special kind of dispensation.

Interestingly, his storyline years ago after writing the Second Comforter was that he was just an ordinary guy and that anyone could see the Savior.

That was his simple message.

Anyone can see Christ.

Since that time his books have become more controversial and his storyline has morphed and become much more directed at his own self importance and the fact that he is a special servant of the Lord who is faithfully teaching what God has sent him to teach.

He infers that he has a special calling and is here to officiate in the establishment of Zion. There will even be signs in the heavens that will testify to that fact that he is faithfully teaching what God has ordained him to teach:

 “You may also know by that sign that He has given to me the words I have faithfully taught as His servant.”

False Prophets Spawn other False Prophets

In the post I did a few months back I speculated that the false prophet  that is visited by a false Christ will spawn a host of followers that will begin bearing testimony that the false prophet is a true prophet. I also speculated that each of these testimony bearing followers will essentially become secondary false prophets. Here is an excerpt of what I speculated:

Another thing that has dawned on me recently is that when a charismatic person is visited by a false Christ and then begins giving their message, others become seduced by the same false spirit. Some may be visited by the same false Christ. Others are simply influenced by the seducing spirit.

Once seduced by the same spirit, they begin bearing a false witness to others that the false prophet is a true prophet.

When they do this, they are not intentionally telling a lie. They honestly feel like they have received promptings from the Holy Ghost and therefore, they feel like they are inspired to testify that the message of the false prophet is true, even though they don’t even understand what the message is ultimately going to be.

The apparently innocent, yet incorrect testimony that they bear, actually makes them a false prophet as well. That is very possibly why the passage refers to false prophets (plural) yet possibly having to do with the same spiritual movement.

In other words, Christ’s prophecy may not have been referring to lots of individual false prophets with differing messages. It could have been referring to a specific movement with lots of people bearing a false testimony about a false message from God.

The first false prophet begins accumulating passionate followers that begin bearing their testimonies that the message from the primary false prophet is true.

Everyone that begins bearing their testimony that a false prophet is a true prophet, becomes a false prophet also, along with the primary false prophet.”

Since Denver Snuffer was excommunicated there have been numerous followers of his that have begun making bold declarations about Denver being a true prophet that has seen Christ. Some have also testified that the General Authorities of the Church have NOT seen Christ. This of course has created a cancer that has begun to eat at the core foundational teaching of the Church, which is that the Current leaders of the Church are receiving direct revelation and direct visitations from God.

It has put the church in a very difficult situation in that they do not want to conduct another witch hunt like they did 30 years ago with the September Six and yet, if they don’t send a warning shot over the bow of the ship, the cancerous disease will escalate very quickly as more Snufferites begin bearing witness that God speaks to Denver and not to President  Monson or the Twelve.

The First High Profile Snuffer Follower is Excommunicated

This brings us to the next current event of interest. It appears as if the first high profile Snufferite has been excommunicated for publicly declaring that Snuffer speaks to God and the leaders of the Church don’t. He publicly declared (on the Internet) that Snuffer is the first prophet since Joseph Smith to speak to God since the death of Joseph Smith.

A fellow by the name of Brent Larsen apparently made the following declaration on the LDS Freedom Forum:

“I know there is a prophet on the earth again today, that it is Denver, and that he is the first I know of as of the death of Joseph. I know Denver is speaking the words given to him by my King.”

Brent has now become a martyr like Denver Snuffer and his excommunication will probably energize the Snuffer movement.

I was curious to see who Brent was and if he had posted any videos. I found the following video that is very possibly a video of him giving a lecture. I am not sure if it is him. It may be a different person with the same name. If any of the Snufferites that follow this blog know for sure, please let me know.

I believe my speculation is coming to fruition about the fact that we are now experiencing a growth in Snufferites that are testifying that Snuffer is a prophet. One of the breeding grounds for this Snufferite movement, besides the LDS Freedom Forum is Latter day Commentary which is run by an incredibly likeable guy named Tim Malone.

Tim is another high profile disciple of Snuffers who currently serves as a financial clerk in a Stake Presidency. One almost gets the impression that he is just baiting his priesthood leaders to pull him into a church court and yet he repeatedly acknowledges that his first allegiance is to the church, not Snuffer. He claims he will discontinue his blog if asked to by his Stake President.

Another person who credits Snuffers book, the Second Comforter in helping him in his path to seeing the Father and the Son, is Daniel Rogers who has published a website telling of his communion with the heavens.

Perhaps one of the most prolific Snuffer shills is the person that uses the screen name of Log. Log has invested an inordinate amount of time and energy  trying to persuade people to come unto Denver. Log is the one that motivated me to do my Snuffer series.

Tim Malone,  Brent Larsen and Log represent the tip of the iceberg when it comes to secondary prophets testifying of the divine commission given to Snuffer and/or drawing people into discourse about Snuffer. There are many more people bearing witness of Snuffer and they are cross pollinating on various blogs and forums. The movement is growing.

It is heartbreaking to watch the warning about false prophets given by Christ in Matt 24, unfold before our very eyes. I believe this is a testimony that we are living in the last generation and things are about to happen in the earth.

The Folks Over at the Interpreter are Chicken-Shits

I have somewhat of a love hate with the Mormon scholars over at the interpreter. On the one hand, I feel their intentions are good with regard to their desire to defend the faith. Every once in a while, one of their scholars busts out an article with some valid and profound snippets of truth worth reading. On the other hand, I feel they focus way too much on defending the modern “church” and the “brethren” instead of defending the restored gospel as it was originally revealed through the prophet Joseph Smith.

I have been critical of them for many other reasons I won’t belabor this post.

I must admit that I am currently pretty pissed at them because I presented to them, on a golden platter, the opportunity to use their forum to bring to light a hidden truth that slam dunks Denver Snuffer for disrespecting the historicity of Section 110, but they hesitated to do so and a valuable opportunity was lost unto them.

I believe the documentation I have provided from the Inspired Version of the Bible about  John the Baptist being Elijah the Tishbite proves beyond dispute, the veracity of the historicity behind the event spoken of in Section 110.  110 is a true revelation and the prophecy contained in 110:14-16 had indeed come to pass as declared.

Long before I posted the section of my current Snuffer series documenting how the Inspired Version of the Bible reveals that John the Baptist was the transmigration of Elijah the Tishbite, I contacted the folks over at the Interpreter and invited them to critique my findings.

My desire was to involve scholars within mainstream Mormonism in the process of evaluating and giving credibility and greater exposure to this revolutionary information.

I stressed to them that I felt that the Inspired Version of the Bible offers a compelling way to prove, that Section 110 and the prophetic content thereof was true and had indeed come to pass.

I noted that if my findings were true, it would prove that some of the current teachings in the church about section 110 were not accurate, but more importantly, it would show that section 110 was valid and the prophecies contained therein had in fact been fulfilled. It would also demonstrate why the Lord had commanded Joseph and Oliver to keep the Vision and Prophecy in section 110 a secret.

This is a snippet from my initial email to the folks over at the MormonInterpreter:

I am getting ready to post the last part of my rebuttal to Denver Snuffer. It has to do with what I consider to be extremely compelling evidence to prove the historicity of section 110. Nevertheless, it is somewhat controversial with regard to how it characterizes the trajectory of the church from 1836 onward.

If you or any of the apologists that write for your organization would have any interest in reviewing it prior to it being posted, I would be happy to provide it for that purpose. I would gladly review any critique that is offered, I would even be willing to post the critique along with the paper if desired.

Even if your scholars would prefer to not provide any public comment, but would like to review and critique it privately, that would be fine with me. I would certainly take any criticism very seriously and reevaluate my suppositions if any critique was offered.

Thank you for your consideration

Watcher “

Their initial response to my email indicated an interest on their  part to review what I had found:

Their response was:

“It sounds like it might be one that the board might want to see. You can submit it and I’ll pass it on with your comments here”

I therefore sent them the initial draft of what I had written with this message:

Here is the portion of my last rebuttal point that we have previously discussed. As I said in our last communication, I welcome any credible feedback from your board members or participating Apologetic Scholars regardless of whether it is positive or negative.

My core supposition is that the Inspired Version of the Bible reveals the true identity of John the Baptist and by so doing, proves beyond question that section 110 is true and that Elijah the Tishbite did in fact fulfill the prophecy of Malachi per the declaration in section 110.

 If my thesis can be proven to be in error, I will not post my paper. However I am so confident that the supposition is accurate, that I am willing to allow your entire organization to scrutinize it and respond to it before I post it If you decide to afford yourselves of this opportunity. I would invite your staff and associated scholars to make every effort to debunk it. I don’t think it can be done.

It is my belief that the writings of Denver Snuffer as contained in his book, Passing the Heavenly Gift, has thrown many Latter day Saints into a crisis of faith regarding the veracity of Section 110. I think the current interpretations that are commonly taught in the church are not altogether accurate and have therefore put the church in a vulnerable doctrinal position in defending the historicity of Section 110. I think that if something is not done in a timely manner, to challenge Snuffers attack in a credible way, the fallout from his criticisms will possibly continue to grow at an alarming rate.

I believe that section 110 plays a critical and central role in the LDS restoration movement and Mormon theology. It interconnects with so many other LDS scriptures and historical events of the restoration movement, that destroying it’s credibility potentially has far reaching consequences, and may ultimately have a domino effect with a devastating impact on many people’s faith in the LDS restoration.

I believe it needs to be responded to in a timely, powerful, authoritative, and decisive manner.

There is some dark irony in a person claiming to have been taught by Christ and angels who is essentially rejecting the account of Joseph and Oliver being taught by Christ and angels in the account contained in section 110. If 110 is clearly shown to be true, it brings into question, Snuffers claims about his own personal visitations from true messengers.

 I believe that by putting the historicity of this very important section in question, Snuffer will ultimately undermine countless people’s faith in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as his following continues to grow. While the church had no other option than to expel him, his martyr status is attracting a lot of attention and I think it may be working to his advantage to some degree in furthering his movement.”

After their board reviewed the paper they responded with the following comment:

“Watcher – Having looked at it, I think it is more than we would want to post in the comments. However, you might want to consider a different introduction and submitting it as a paper for Interpreter. It would go through the review process and you would know what the comments would be.”

I was a little bit taken back by that response.

I am not sure what they meant by posting in the comments. All I was asking them to do is to send the draft to all of their scholars and asking for them to provide any reasons why they would disagree or agree with the evidence and conclusions I had made. I was giving them the opportunity to debunk the thesis or respond with a positive conclusion.

I was frankly a little surprised that they would invite me to submit the article to be published on their forum. This invitation prompted the following response from me:

“Since when did the Interpeter begin accepting papers from anonymous, un-credentialed, non-members of the church? LOL”

They replied thusly:

“Certainly not anonymous. However, uncredentialed and non-member isn’t an issue. Quality of thought is important, not credentials. However, it would require loss of anonymity.”

 Quality of thought is what is important but loss of anonymity is required?

How important is quality of thought if loss of anonymity is required before the paper will be reviewed?

Why would an organization such as the Interpreter refuse to publish a potentially game changing doctrinal thesis for scrutiny simply because the author desired to be anonymous?

Here I was, offering a doctrinal thesis of ginormous significance and they were preoccupied with finding out who the author of the thesis is!?!?

Why the h#*! should it matter who wrote the freakin thesis?

“Quality of thought” is the important thing, right?

Truth is the bottom-line.. right?

Only an ego-centric organization would be stuck in that kind of prideful mindset of not being willing to evaluate a thoughtful thesis unless a personality could  be associated with it.

The truth is that the world of scholarship has reached a point where they are unable to judge a message without judging the messenger.

Admittedly, another reason they possibly put up a road block in allowing the paper to be published on their forum probably has more to do with the fact that they will not publish anything that embarrasses the church and challenges the existing doctrinal storyline being taught, which the thesis admittedly does.

Nevertheless, all I was asking was for the folks at the Interpreter to do, is simply shoot the thesis out to their large body of scholarly contributors and invite them to evaluate the doctrinal accuracy and veracity of the thesis. I was happy to allow them to critique and debunk my findings if they could. They could have even done their critique in private without bringing embarrassment to the church but they declined.

They ultimately declined by putting up stumbling-blocks.

For that reason, if any of you over at the interpreter are reading this post, I just want you to know that I think you passed up on an incredible opportunity to participate in bringing to light some game-changing doctrinal information.

You could have helped to expose the true level of inspiration found in PTHG and the author thereof.

You could have helped to bring to light information that can help people that are having a crisis of faith regarding Section 110, as a result of PTHG.

You may have been helpful in bring some of the Snufferites out of the deception they are involved in.

You could have been instrumental in helping the church self correct with regard to what they currently teach about Section 110.

I just want you to know that if you passed on the opportunity to bring this information to light because you are more concerned about not embarrassing the Church about the erroneous doctrine they teach, than you are about searching out and publishing the truth, you are a bunch of chicken-shits.  ;)

I have a capsule concern that is bothering me immensely

January 30, 2014

I got an amazing email today that began with this

I have a capsule concern that is bothering me immensely. I am not looking to you for all answers; but, those answers where I am blank and not visited with, I inquire.

I will now provide some of this person’s comments followed by my responses:

First of all, since the second part of the preparatory Priesthood is gone, that leaves the Levitical order left, which is all right because of the ability to spread the gospel and baptize (supposedly bringing the everlasting covenant). But in 1923, good ole’ Heber decides to change the manner of conferral to ordaining to office first.  Then Good ole’ David decides that that isn’t right and smoothly changes it back to the way it was. Since my father was born in 1922 and fell under the auspices of the new arrangement, was his my baptism even valid in 1963 when he may not have had a true ordinance of conferral upon him? Therefore all 50 people I baptized in Florida from 1975-77 may not be valid; and my sons as well?”

You bring up a fascinating question that I have pondered as well.

I honestly don’t know the answer for sure. My gut feeling is that the technicality of how the levitical priesthood was transferred incorrectly is probably not much of an issue. First of all, one needs to remember that baptism under that authority is basically the law of moses version of baptism that only points us to the need for baptism from the higher priesthood. ( Just as the “more righteous” portion of  Nephites that were not destroyed in 3 Nephi needed to be re-baptized by the higher authority, even though they had previously been baptized by Nephi. )

All of us will need to be re-baptized when the servants return, regardless of whether we have had a valid preparatory baptism.

The other “hint” that may shed some light on this, that I will be addressing sometime in the last part of the current series, is that according to the allegory in the Book of Jacob in the Book of Mormon, the transition of taking the preparatory gospel to the “outcasts of Israel” and the “dispersed of Judah” shortly after the Gentiles rejected the “fulness” of the Gospel, resulted in keeping the roots alive in the church until the Marvelous Work and a Wonder begins with the servants returning and the additional books of scripture coming forth.

My feeling is that the taking of the lesser gospel to the world and keeping the roots alive, includes two things.

a) Nourishing the latter day church with the knowledge of the gospel contained in the Book of Mormon and the D&C (& JST Bible)

b) The authority of the Levitical priesthood in orchestrating missionary work and taking the message of the Gospel to the world

If in fact both of those things are part of keeping the roots alive, then that would indicate that the church does not lose the lesser priesthood before the Marvelous Work begins.

Lastly, I believe the following prophecy in D&C 13 probably applies to the final offering of righteousness that takes place in the 3rd watch (which could possibly be characterized of the completion of the offering in righteousness that took place in the 2nd watch)

UPON you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

Next observation from the email:

I understand we are under condemnation for changing the ordinance, but what is “breaking” the everlasting covenant mean? We changed the manner of baptism by eliminating confessing and committing to an audience, and the wording changed from “authority” to “commissioned”, so would breaking be because of Heber’s denunciation of the conferral process? These have serious ramifications you can see. Why would the restoration process, and the preparing the world for the second coming be shut off at the surface and be eliminated all together when the worls needs to be prepared and gathered?

It quite literally means the everlasting covenant has been broken. It is no longer in effect. We are currently upheld by MERCY and the preparatory Gospel and the lesser law, instead of the GRACE of the everlasting Gospel.

The everlasting gospel covenant between God and his people has been broken… Period, end of story.

It was established with the Gentiles back in the New Testament and reconfirmed with the restored church for a short period of time, but it was broken when the Saints and the entire nation rejected the fulness by 1834.

I have been trying to get this point across for six years in my blogs but I think very few people believe me. My goal is to hammer this point home when I complete the current series. That is the whole reason why the servants must return to “restore the breach” (Isaiah 58:12)  “That mine everlasting covenant might be established;  That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers.” (D&C 1: 22-23)

Although I am speculating that the Levitical priesthood is still on the earth, one can make a strong argument that the changing of the way the ordinance of priesthood was conferred was an integral part of changing the ordinance of baptism and that section 13 of the D&C was fulfilled after Josephs acceptable intercessory offering in the 2nd watch.

I[n] summary, I may not have been properly baptized, I have had no bestowal of the Holy Ghost, and I mock the blessing of all those I came in contact with acting in the name of the Lord. Did I agree to come in the Dark Ages of time when I feel I have learned so much concerning the acts of the heavens?

I have no idea what each of us agreed to relative to which period of time we came to earth. On the bright side, every time I am sitting in my warm home with Mrs Watcher, sipping a cup of hot chocolate and reading the four standard works that people have shed their blood to make available for me to read, study, search and ponder, I think of the Book of Mormon people and the adversity they faced. I think of the New Testament Saints and the persecution they experienced. I think of the darkened minds of the Utah pioneers that walked to Utah on Bloody feet to have the privilege of being oppressed by King  Brigham and his version of the preparatory gospel and I think of the poor souls that were enticed into the bondage of polygamy.  I have absolutely no desire to trade places with anyone. LOL ( am being a little light hearted and perhaps light minded in some of my remarks.. please don’t take offense.. I have to view things this way to keep my sanity. Obviously, the times ahead could be much harder than previous generations have experienced..)

You and I are living at the time when the everlasting gospel is about to shine forth in all of its glorious and ineffable effervescence.

We have been given the scriptures and study helps, such as word crunching software that saves us from an inordinate amount of time and brain damage and enables us, with the help of God’s Spirit, to find out what has happened in the past and what is about to take place.

While we don’t have the bonafide “constant companionship” that comes from the true “gift of the Holy Ghost“, we clearly have the light of Christ and possibly the intermittent visitations of the Holy Ghost. I can testify from personal experience that I have felt intelligence being downloaded into my heart and mind while searching God’s holy word.. I strongly suspect that you have experienced the same thing.

This is preparing us for the Marvelous Work!

Praise God almighty!

You and I are living in the time that all of the prophets have seen in vision and prophesied about.

“So I have the Book of Mormon and prayer without the Spirit preparing me to see the face of my Savior.  Can you see how this knocks my world askew since my nature has always been to analyze?

I certainly understand that all of this information is a shock to ones system and a real paradigm changer, but the good news if that the servants are coming with the GOOD NEWS and we have the opportunity to prepare our hearts and our minds to receive the servants.

We currently study and ponder the “lesser things” contained in the Book of Mormon but we are going to have the opportunity to read, study, search and ponder the “greater things” that are about to come forth.

You, my friend are among the very few of the latter day saints that even begin to comprehend what is about to take place. Count yourself blessed beyond description.

Your remarks demonstrate someone who has cared enough to search deeply in the history of the church and the word of God. I pray that God will continue to infuse you with the light that we all need to prepare our hearts and our minds for that which will probably take place in a very short period of time.

Keep praying, studying, searching, pondering and spiritually preparing..

oh… and keep Watching.

You Can Watch it Live

January 23, 2014

Arial Sharon

January 11, 2014

This development is quite interesting..

I have no opinion about it other than, it is kind of interesting..

Ariel Sharon dies after 8 years in coma –


WordPress would not let me embed youtube for some reason.



A Spirit-filled Reading of CONTENT and CONTEXT is all that Matters in Mystical Christianity- Part Two

January 10, 2014

His Next Response


I can easily understand how the word Lucifer got into the King James
Bible.  After all the KJ Bible is a translation of a translation.
What I can’t understand is how all of these known errors associated with the 1776 KJ Bible got into the Book of Mormon.  When you read the accounts of the translation process it doesn’t make sense.  Unless of course they were taken straight out of the KJ Bible in the first

It doesn’t surprise me that keyword searches produce so many parallels between the restoration and the Bible.  I mean Joseph, Sidney, and many others knew the Bible inside and out.  It was a
foundation for all of their work.  Not only is there a ton of direct quotes from the Bible in the Book of Mormon, but the parallels between many of the stories are striking.  Joseph uses a mix of bible quotes and language all throughout Doctrine and Covenants.

I guess my point is as a member of the Church when your eyes are opened to the issues you initially want to hold on to the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. It is a pattern I see all the time.  It is what happened to me and why I found your Blog so comforting.

Then however when you take an in depth look at the foundational issues as well as problems the Book of Mormon faces, I think you have to come to terms with the possible situation.  I did start my Journey into the LDS Church based on feelings I got when I prayed.  However I prayed about a book I knew nothing about aside from reading things in it that were taken straight
out of the Bible.

The same goes for Joseph Smith.  In the new  Testament the way Jesus tells us to Judge a Prophet is by his fruits which are his doctrine and Prophecies.  When I prayed about him I for
sure wasn’t presented with an accurate picture of any of it.

One of the most confusing things I have heard you say is that no matter if the Papyri are proven to contain nothing about Abraham, you still believe in it because the book stands on its own.  I don’t feel faith is believing in something that you can prove is false beyond a shadow
of a doubt.  The papyri are not what Joseph said they were.

Sure there is some doctrine in the book of Abraham that you probably feel makes sense.  That is the danger of all of the restoration.  It was created to make sense, to answer questions that hadn’t been answered.  It doesn’t make it the right answer though.  You have said before that
people of different religions have a different spirit that you can feel with them.  I think that the spirit that I felt witness to me about the Book of Mormon was not the Holy Ghost.   I honestly feel like it was Satan, and God allowed that because I took the wrong
approach to finding truth.

Feelings aren’t an accurate way to discern truth.  I spent some time in the middle east when I was in the Air Force.  Those Muslims that I was around felt strong feelings too. Strong enough to give their life for, yet I don’t feel it was from God.  Just like the accounts of the first vision.  When I take an in depth look at those along with what the 1830 edition of the Book of
Mormon said and the JST of the Bible, I can see that he believed in one God at the time.  His view on that evolved over time just like most of his doctrine.

I told you before I had major issues with the way he changed the revelations from the Book of Commandments to the Doctrine and Covenants.  On the one hand you use patterns and logic to prove things, but in regards to the changing of the revelations you said that God doesn’t think like we think.  Which I agree, but the deeper I dig into the historical context of his environment, his magical world view, and the crisis he was facing with people leaving left and right, I can’t help but see a major deception.

I hope this doesn’t offend you, but I have come to the Conclusion that he was never a Prophet to begin with.

My Response

Hey it does not offend me at all. You bring up some great points . I believe you are going through the refiners fire like all of us. I totally understand where you are coming from.


I think there is a very important place for critical thinking in religion. In fact, there is not enough critical thinking in the early stages of a person’s conversion to the gospel, in my opinion.


BTW I posted our previous responses in a post because I think the issues being discussed are really important. Of course, I did not reveal your name. I hope that is ok with you…


I am leaving for a while but when I get back I will re-read this last email and see if I have a response for you. In fact, I am definitely going to have a long detailed response to your comments above as well as the comments you have since sent to me in an email. I plan on posting part three of this series AFTER I finish the current series I am in.


Although I completely disagree with your current findings, I TOTALLY RESPECT YOU after hearing why your have doubt.


In fact, I respect you much more than I respect mindless members of the church that never ask questions, because you have a true desire to get to the truth at all costs and that is what I call integrity. If we don’t have integrity, we don’t have anything worthwhile. Membership in the church cannot save people that are void of personal integrity.


You said-


Feelings aren’t an accurate way to discern truth.


This may surprise you, but I actually agree with that statement although I would modify it a little bit. “feelings without critical thinking, research, knowledge of the facts, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit aren’t an accurate way to discern truth


I have blogged about this before. God speaks to people in their HEART and in their MIND. Those that only use one of those organs to think, will be deceived. The Inspired Version of the Bible informs us that the heart is an intelligent, thinking organ with a mind of its own. Modern Revelation informs us that God speaks to us through BOTH our mind (brain) and our heart if we are in tune.


People who go 100% of feelings, in my opinion have a 100% chance of being deceived… period.


Human feelings are a completely unreliable way to discern truth.


However, I believe the opposite is true also.


Those that do not allow the Holy Ghost to influence their research and feelings while searching out the facts, and only allow the intellect of the natural mind of the natural man to sort things out also have 100% chance of being deceived, in my opinion.


You said,


I think that the spirit that I felt witness to me about the Book of Mormon was not the Holy Ghost.   I honestly feel like it was Satan, and God allowed that because I took the wrong approach to finding truth.


That statement is probably going to shock a few people.


Frankly, I think you are probably correct. However, I suspect that most of us were initially converted by scratch. I will expound on this when I resume this series having to do with your observations and concerns.


Anyway, I enjoy communicating with people who doubt because they have the personal integrity to search things out, much more than I enjoy communicating with those in the church that are spiritually and intellectually brain-dead and don’t have the personal integrity to question anything… so don’t consider me to be your enemy just because we don’t see eye to eye.


Again, I plan on returning to address why the other issues you have brought up do not bother me anymore and I appreciate you engaging me in these very important topics.




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